Is 212 degrees in traffic too hot?

[73TXRallye440]

Well, 8 months and $512 less in my bank account I picked my charger up today. Drove it home. Started off great, ran 180-185 for a while, then slowly crept up to 200 degrees over a 10 mile span. Exited the freeway and the last 9 miles are 35 to 40 mph zones with a stoplight every 1/4 mile. Well, I got hung at the first 5 lights and it slowly crept up to 210 degrees, i think 212 was the hottest it got just now. (Mind you it's 72 degrees outside right now). I was really starting to get pissed off (hence this is why I took it to the mechanic to resolve 8 months ago and was told the over-heating problem was resolved). Well traffic let up and I made the next 9 lights, temp came down to 200 degrees and hung there for the rest of the way. Is this typical of a mildly modded 440 with aluminum heads? I had him install a real temp gauge to tell what temp it was exactly, so now I have hard numbers to look at vs C and H and somewhere in between.

Is this something I should keep looking into?

Car started running kinda rough near the end of my trip, think it may be that 8 month old gas. I pulled off and topped it off with 93 (chevron). Man I hope im not back to square 1.

[tan top]

 has the car always run hot !!  since the day you got it !! or since you have done some mods ?? 

[73TXRallye440]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,53964.0.html

that is the thread from earlier in the year. I pulled the stock fan blade/radiator and went with an aftermarket setup. I was going to put it back on there but got a heat gun and the water coming out of the radiator was 180 degrees, so that wasnt the issue. The right aluminum head was 100 degrees hotter than the left head. He adjusted the (lifters? valves? dont quote me, made an adjustment b/c something was out of adjustment) and said that resolved the issue. Well, I dont think it really did. He showed me the heat gun temp at 180 so I dont think its the fans/radiator. But now that I got it back today I think it should run cooler than that.

[tan top]

think the first thing i would do is put the stock fan & shroud  back on  , &  check you have a spring in the lower radiator hose  ,  &  check what the timing is  !!  also have a look at plug color  is the motor running on the lean side at idle   also have you change the water pump pully & or pump ??

[73TXRallye440]

what 'should' it run at? Should it be one of those things that gets to 185 or thereabouts and just stays there?

[tan top]

hmmm  i know that , the normal opperating tempreture was in creased in the later modles for emission control ,
    but having said that 180 - 185 is the norm for mine ! but if i hammer it then come to stop in traffic & idle , for a long time !  it goes up to 190 ish , then if i increase idle speed it goes back to 180 ,  have  fixed flexi fan , with stock shroud ,  have not got around to putting my stock fan back on yet !
 even messing with the timing & mixture in the garage for hours , never really goes above 180 , even with out a shroud  , & a 1:1 mix with antifreeze
stock 055 radiator  , 180 degree hi flow thermostat , & a miloden HV waterpump ,
 for me i would not like seeing any over 200 with aluminun heads  
 another thought ! have you got enough air going through the radiator ??
 could ask the guys what their  water tempreture  is
& post here !! 

[R2]

What brand water pump is on it ?

Is fluid moving in the radiator with the cap off....

I know Ron (firefighter ),,,had issues with his water pump being pretty restrictive....and wasnt moving as much water as it should,,,,,was a 440 source pump......

he has a great thread on this issue

[Tom Q]

No 212 is not hot, but the car should run about 10 degrees cooler..
Today's fuel requires a higher operating temp.
You should use a 195 degree thermostat. Using a wideband air fuel meter we discovered that with a 180 degree t stat the fuel will collect in the intake and burn off in the cruise mode eventually causing the a-f to go lean in the cruise mode.

This does not mean you don't have an issue, you do, but a lower t stat will not solve the problem.
The car is unable to dissipate the heat the engine is producing.  It can be a number of items including a trans cooler that is too small.  There should be a thermostatic fan clutch and a the stock fan or mopar perfomance 5 blade fan.
Water antifreeze mix should be 40% af and 60% H2O with a bottle of water wetter. 16 lb cap. High flow 195 degree thermostat.

[73TXRallye440]

Ok so part 2-

I get in, drive 20 mins to the bank, and sit in the drive thru line for 15 mins at idle. On the way there it ran at 195, then i get there and after 15 mins of idling it is sitting at 185 degrees.

So i take the freeway back home doing 70-75 mph (taching 3,500), it creeps to 200 degrees. I exit, and take the last 6 miles home doing 40 mph and hitting 5 stop lights and guess what, it creeps to 212 degrees and just sits there. Weird. I woulda bet sitting in the drive thru it would have gone way up, but nope, sure didnt. It didnt decide to get hotter until i exited the freeway on the way home and hit those stop lights.

Sound like anything specific?

[73TXRallye440]

pic I took sitting at light before i turned into neighborhood

[skip68]

I put a 160 t-stat in mine and it came way down.   I don't worry about 200-215 degrees.  My car runs at about 170 and 180 in traffic.  I think that is a little on the cool side and that's what I've been told.   

[bear]

I don't know if this was mentioned before but what coolant are you running? I believe if it has phosphates in it it will cause a reaction with the aluminum that leaves a sludge in the radiator and will slowly clog and block the passages. Also phosphates will create calcium and magnesium deposits when mixed with hard water. My friend had same problem happen to him after he installed an aluminum radiator in his car and he was running the green coolant as well. You'd probably be good if you used the peak global(amber color) it will work in any car you have.

[FLG]

I have a 180 degree stat and it will go up to 195 the electric fans will kick on, and its back to 180 in no time. Also on the highway its just under the 180 degree mark. I actually modified the stat a bit, drilled 2 3/16" holes in the metal around the thermostat. Basically for 2 reasons. For one, my electric fans werent cutting off at 180 because the stat made it stay and 180 and the fans just needed a little under that mark. Secondly, it helps with the bleeding process. Since there is some flow you dont have to wait till the thermostat opens to fill the system and bleed all the air out. So far in 45ish degree weather. It stays a few degrees below 180, so you get adequate heat. As for lower temps, im not quite sure yet.

Also i was running no t-stat for awhile because the one i had froze shut. No thermostat actually makes the car run HOTTER. Just a note.

[73TXRallye440]

I don't know if this was mentioned before but what coolant are you running? I believe if it has phosphates in it it will cause a reaction with the aluminum that leaves a sludge in the radiator and will slowly clog and block the passages. Also phosphates will create calcium and magnesium deposits when mixed with hard water. My friend had same problem happen to him after he installed an aluminum radiator in his car and he was running the green coolant as well. You'd probably be good if you used the peak global(amber color) it will work in any car you have.

good question, I dont know. It's a brand new 4 core (i think it was) aluminum radiator that was installed.

here is a pic of temp gauge after sitting in bank line for 15 mins today:



thanks for the PEAK recommendation. Would I need to drain all the other coolant or could I mix PEAK in as it needs coolant?

[bear]

I would drain it and probably get one of those flushing kits they sell to wash out anything that may have built up in there.

[Cooter]

Remember that the newer cars with aluminum blocks AND aluminum heads run 227 Degrees THEN the electric fans come on...

I've found out that some BB Chrysler engines just run hotter than others...

The one in the GeneraL Lee (440) runs 180 ALL DAY...Christine's 440 runs 200 I don't care what you do..(3 row Brass/copper with shroud)

The Dart Used to run anywhere from 200- 220 on a hot day idling, but since the Aluminum radiator It runs around 200.....

[ACUDANUT]

 Did you say flex fan ? Get rid of it and get a Viscous fan w/ clutch.

[bear]

Remember that the newer cars with aluminum blocks AND aluminum heads run 227 Degrees THEN the electric fans come on...

I've found out that some BB Chrysler engines just run hotter than others...

The one in the GeneraL Lee (440) runs 180 ALL DAY...Christine's 440 runs 200 I don't care what you do..(3 row Brass/copper with shroud)

The Dart Used to run anywhere from 200- 220 on a hot day idling, but since the Aluminum radiator It runs around 200.....

The main reason new cars run hotter has to do with emissions. Because the hotter they run the more impurities they burn off or something like that.

[The70RT]

Did you say flex fan ? Get rid of it and get a Viscous fan w/ clutch.

I had that problem with a flex fan before. In town I was fine unless it idled in traffic for a while. On the highway when the RPM's go up the blades straighten out. What ever air comes though naturally is all you get. If you slow down then the fan can't keep up after that and I heated up till I drove like 35 mph for a few blocks.

[JeffYoung]

My 72 Rallye 440 concerns me too.  It will run 180 or 190 for the first 10/20 minutes I drive it and then it slowly creeps up to 220ish.  That's too hot for me.  Plus, under throttle the car starts to ping pretty badly over 200 degrees.

I've not done much to the motor, but the water pump and radiator/fan/shroud look stock.  Timing is 10 BTDC static; need to check the total advance.

Sound like a timing issue to you guys?  What is the sweet spot for these motors, or are they all different?

[skip68]

36-38 degrees all in by 2600-3000 rpm.  Dam FLG, in 45 degree weather my car runs 160-165.       I wonder if that's too cool ?   

[FLG]

Chuck,

It was 40 degrees here tonight. On the highway it was about 175-177ish with the modified 180 degree stat.

You have a 160 stat with no holes or anything like mine so even on the coldest days you wont go below 160. Thats OK but i prefer it to be a little warmer. For one because of my resto beginning my cars interior consists of 2 seats, door panels, and a dash and some non existent weather stripping as well. So it gets cold pretty quickly in the cabin, i remember having no t-stat and being in 30 degree weather. The car ran at 160, and i was freezing cold. At 180 or so i still get good heat if i need it.

The colder you keep the engine the more power your going to make, but your also using more gas..i noticed a big difference in gas mileage when she was hot then cold (used quite a bit more cold). A hotter engine is more efficient though it will produce less power. I have also heard that running a car too cold (under 180), can greatly increase the wear and tear on the engine. From what ive heard, your not allowing the oil to heat up fully thus causing harmful deposits to accumulate instead of being burned off and increasing wear.

[skip68]

I wonder if I should change my stat in the winter back to a 180 degree one.      We have extreme heat in the summer here and cold winter days around high 30's - low 40's.     

[The70RT]

I wonder if I should change my stat in the winter back to a 180 degree one.      We have extreme heat in the summer here and cold winter days around high 30's - low 40's.     

If you run it too cool you never get to operating temp and wear your internals more and have more carbon deposits. So yeah change it to a 180. If you hit 190-195 that's fine.

[73TXRallye440]

My 72 Rallye 440 concerns me too.  It will run 180 or 190 for the first 10/20 minutes I drive it and then it slowly creeps up to 220ish.  That's too hot for me.  Plus, under throttle the car starts to ping pretty badly over 200 degrees.

wow, i didnt mention it, but when it gets over 210 degrees it starts running rougher and pinging. I was just chalking that up to bad gas, but it may not be. Mine is doing exactly what yours is doing. If you solve your issue, please let me know what the culprit was.