Debt Collector

[Landonsrt]

Anybody know the legality of a debt collector refusing payment of a check. They are telling me I have to pay them what they ask or they will come after me. This is for an outstanding doctors bill from several yers ago when I had no insurace and had my spleen removed.
The first time I spoke with them, they were demanding the payment in full. I told them I did not have the $1900.00 to pay them. I eventually set up a monthly payment of $75. Well, Ive been unemployed for 4 months and called them and spoke with the same lady who I cannot stand to try to lower my payment until I found a job. She told me I have to pay them what they are demanding again and I have no choice in the matter...

Anyone have any advice?

[skip68]

    Next time you should ask them point blank, "do you refuse to take my money"?  Then when they don't answer directly tell them to send it to you in writting that you tried to give them some money and it was rejected.   

[Khyron]

Anyone have any advice?

offer them you spleen?

[skip68]

Anyone have any advice?

offer them you spleen?

   Spleen's are salty.   

[dkn1997]

I was a bill collector for a year and we never refused money unless we were sure it was going to bounce, etc..

maybe there is some legal implication that if they take your 75 they are aggreeing to a payment plan and they don't want to do that?

either way, if you can scrape together 1/2 the money, they will take that as payment in full, especially as the debt gets older...easier to negotiate.  I know we were authorized to take 80% settlements without any outside permission.  on 2nds, or older debts, they settlement percentage goes down further as it's assumed that at that point they wrote it off already on thier taxes...  

[Ponch ®]

I was a bill collector for a year and we never refused money unless we were sure it was going to bounce, etc..

maybe there is some legal implication that if they take your 75 they are aggreeing to a payment plan and they don't want to do that?

either way, if you can scrape together 1/2 the money, they will take that as payment in full, especially as the debt gets older...easier to negotiate.  I know we were authorized to take 80% settlements without any outside permission.  on 2nds, or older debts, they settlement percentage goes down further as it's assumed that at that point they wrote it off already on thier taxes...  

isn't there some law/rule that says that if its been 4 years or more since it went into collections you don't really have to pay it back? The rub, as I recall, is that as soon as you offer them some sort of payment, it restarts the clock. Of course, I could be completely wrong on one or both counts.

[b5blue]

7 years from last payment. They can't refuse payment (who you owe) Your dealing with a bill collection agency probably. They can and will lie to you and twist the facts. Check and see if your debt has been charged off. It's not uncommon for them to hound people for debts that are not even technically owed still. I learned about all this crap thanks to my X wife, I kinda had to play hard ball for awhile. Pull a credit report on yourself to see if the bastards are even reporting what you did pay. In the report there are instructions for you to file a DISPUTE where you may explain how they refused payment or jerked you around ect. the bottom line is if you don't have it you can't pay it. 

[mauve66]

easy to record your phone calls, when they refuse to accept the money you sent then they have no recourse IF they take it to court, i doubt they will take it to court for that amount, they get paid a percentage of what they collect so they will lie and make you think they are taking you to jail when all they can do is go to court and the court can put a garnishment on your check if they decide it is a valid claim but with the recording that shows you are trying to take care of it and their refusal they will have no leg to stand on.

my wife went to the "wrong" emergency room about 7 years ago and the bill was over 11K AFTER THE INSURANCE, i was paying the hospital a little at a time when they stoppped sending a bill and i forgot 1 month so they immediately sent it to collections.  The collections company settled the 10K left over for 5K cash, it never showed on my credit report, ever.  until this past year or so with the bankruptcy my credit score has always been over 750..  DONT LET THEM USE SCARE TACTICS ON YOU, THEIR OPTIONS ARE LIMITED AFTER YOU MAKE A GOOD FAITH OFFER AND THEY REFUSE ANY PAYMENT

[Landonsrt]

The woman I keep dealing with is the main problem. She is always real short with me and is always telling me I have no options but what I'm told. I know that's not true according to the fair debt collections act. it didn't go to collections until about 6 months ago. I have paid them every month. After talking with the womans boss, it was redduced to $25. She called me today after two months and said they are changing it back to $75 and I have to pay it. I told her I am two months behind on my house payment, she's crazy to think her bill is more important. I am ready to drive to her office and strangle her!

[mauve66]

record the conversations, especially if they call your work after you tell them not to.


the law is very specific on what they can and cannot say/do on the phone.  there are several lawsuits going on over terrorist tactics used by some collection agencies
they CAN'T make you pay ANYTHING.  i understand you want to do the right thing and pay your bill but right now you have more pressing matters with work and a home for your family, you need to tell them you will pay as you can and they need to stop harrassing you, be specific when you say that, don't agree to any kind of payment schedule, they will use this against you,

[Landonsrt]

I called her back a second time today and apologized for getting angry on the earlier call, she didnt care. My wife was standing by and heard how the woman was yelling at me saying she would send my checks back if it wasnt the amount that they wanted and my wife got PISSED!!! She started screaming at the woman and the lady hung up on me. My wife called her back and had a more sane conversation. The woman told her they didnt have to help me out. She said she was recording all our conversations from previous times. She mentioned to my wife about the time I cussed her out, which i did. That was when the bitch was telling me I had to pay in full or nothing.
Her boss is a much easier person to talk with. Hes always helpful, but for some reason she always calls back and manages to set me off.
I just want to know by law that I'm making attempts to pay them and that they can't dictate the terms....

Its not being reported to my credit that Im paying on it. Its just showing on my report as a collections for the full amount. I know I can dispute it with equifax, transunion and experian. They'll just change it to the amount I currenty owe if anything. I hate this crap. Ive spent the last five years restoring my credit just to watch it get screwed again.

[dkn1997]

I called her back a second time today and apologized for getting angry on the earlier call, she didnt care. My wife was standing by and heard how the woman was yelling at me saying she would send my checks back if it wasnt the amount that they wanted and my wife got PISSED!!! She started screaming at the woman and the lady hung up on me. My wife called her back and had a more sane conversation. The woman told her they didnt have to help me out. She said she was recording all our conversations from previous times. She mentioned to my wife about the time I cussed her out, which i did. That was when the bitch was telling me I had to pay in full or nothing.
Her boss is a much easier person to talk with. Hes always helpful, but for some reason she always calls back and manages to set me off.
I just want to know by law that I'm making attempts to pay them and that they can't dictate the terms....

Its not being reported to my credit that Im paying on it. Its just showing on my report as a collections for the full amount. I know I can dispute it with equifax, transunion and experian. They'll just change it to the amount I currenty owe if anything. I hate this crap. Ive spent the last five years restoring my credit just to watch it get screwed again.

having worked in the business for a year of my life way back when, I can say that they are a big bunch of dirtbags.  they have zero leverage.  especially in a case like this where it would only show as a collection item on your credit report....and if they were going to sue you, they would have done it long ago.

you should get a copy of the fair debt and collection practices act...it's part of the consumer protection act.  I forget what part.  There lots of rules as to what they can't do and if they followed them all, they wouldn't collect a dime from anyone. that's just the reality of it.  use it against them and if you can document a few violations file a complaint with the state attorney generals office...they really hate that. 

above all, remember you are dealing with truly stupid people...at least that describes most of the ones I worked with.  By the way, when you talk to whoever's "boss" that's a lie...you are likely talking to the person the next desk over.  they are playing you, classic good cop bad cop.  I used to do it. 

first step is ask for verification of the debt.  if it's old enough, that may have disappeared and the only record of it is the paper that gets shuffled from agency to agency... these things have a shelf life. If one agency doesn't collect, after a certain amount of time it goes to another and another, etc..   

also, you can stop the calls by sending a cease and desist via certified mail.  In that case, you ask in the letter to only be contacted by mail regarding this matter.  you have a lot of rights.

[Landonsrt]

Yeah, after the long conversation with the dirtbag today, I read the Fair debt collections act. It stated everything but what I wanted to really hear. Its my decision on the chosen amount? The only thing they are really in violation of is harrassing me on the debt. They are calling me within the alotted time, at home.
I agree on the good cop, bad cop deal. Never thought of it that way. I guess Ill start recording all the conversations and keep better records on all payments. Ive been sending payments in the form of money orders so they dont get my bank account info.
I will definetely be sending them the registered letter to stop the calls. Thats the last thing I need to worry about once I start my new job.

Thanks for the great info. Anything more is appreciated!

[moparguy01]

If you choose to record the conversations, MAKE SURE YOU TELL THEM AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CONVERSATION!!!!!! If you do not, it would be held inadmissable in court. My wife had some real problems before we got married, and I had to take the phone away from her and tell them they now deal with me. They didn't like dealing with me because they couldn't scare me into doing what they wanted. Also, try not to swear at them, it really doesn't help whatsoever. The one telemarketer that I took the phone from my wife was actually making her cry, he was a major bastard.

[dkn1997]

Yeah, after the long conversation with the dirtbag today, I read the Fair debt collections act. It stated everything but what I wanted to really hear. Its my decision on the chosen amount? The only thing they are really in violation of is harrassing me on the debt. They are calling me within the alotted time, at home.
I agree on the good cop, bad cop deal. Never thought of it that way. I guess Ill start recording all the conversations and keep better records on all payments. Ive been sending payments in the form of money orders so they dont get my bank account info.
I will definetely be sending them the registered letter to stop the calls. Thats the last thing I need to worry about once I start my new job.

Thanks for the great info. Anything more is appreciated!

you better get that letter out well BEFORE you start a new job.  once they find out where you work, they will call there and make it as uncomfortable as they can trying to pressure you into paying.  I remember our mouths used to water when we'd get a POE  (place of employment) on someone. 

I love how the next post says "telemarketer"  because that's what debt collectors really are.  telemarketers and debt collectors all want you money. 

[b5blue]

A clever and legal way "around" recording laws since they deal with issues of perceived privacy is to use the phone on "speaker phone" and then record. Then all you do is say "hold on I can't hear you well, let me put you on speaker" now the assumption of privacy is gone (legally) as anyone in the room could overhear both sides of the conversation. This is good for any situation you might want a record of and would "hold up" later in a court just as messages left on a answering machine or emails would.

[Khyron]

A clever and legal way "around" recording laws since they deal with issues of perceived privacy is to use the phone on "speaker phone" and then record. Then all you do is say "hold on I can't hear you well, let me put you on speaker" now the assumption of privacy is gone (legally) as anyone in the room could overhear both sides of the conversation. This is good for any situation you might want a record of and would "hold up" later in a court just as messages left on a answering machine or emails would.

another simple way around this is just record it.... remember, the message says "This may be recorded for blah blah blah reasons." They never say WHO is recording.

[Landonsrt]

It states in the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act that it is illegal for them to call your place of business and harrass you for payment if the employer prohibits such things. I imagine most do.

§ 805. Communication in connection with debt collection
(a) COMMUNICATION WITH THE CONSUMER GENERALLY. Without the prior consent of the consumer given directly to the debt collector or the express permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, a debt collector may not communicate with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt—
(1) at any unusual time or place or a time or place known or which should be known to be inconvenient to the
15 USC 1692b
15 USC 1692c
6
§ 805 15 USC 1692c
consumer. In the absence of knowledge of circumstances to the contrary, a debt collector shall assume that the convenient time for communicating with a consumer is after 8 o'clock antimeridian and before 9 o'clock postmeridian, local time at the consumer's location;
(2) if the debt collector knows the consumer is represented by an attorney with respect to such debt and has knowledge of, or can readily ascertain, such attorney's name and address, unless the attorney fails to respond within a reasonable period of time to a communication from the debt collector or unless the attorney consents to direct communication with the consumer; or
(3) at the consumer's place of employment if the debt collector knows or has reason to know that the consumer's employer prohibits the consumer from receiving such communication.

[Landonsrt]

A clever and legal way "around" recording laws since they deal with issues of perceived privacy is to use the phone on "speaker phone" and then record. Then all you do is say "hold on I can't hear you well, let me put you on speaker" now the assumption of privacy is gone (legally) as anyone in the room could overhear both sides of the conversation. This is good for any situation you might want a record of and would "hold up" later in a court just as messages left on a answering machine or emails would.

another simple way around this is just record it.... remember, the message says "This may be recorded for blah blah blah reasons." They never say WHO is recording.

Thats why I know the prior conversations Ive had with the woman would be inadmisable in court because I was never informed that I was being recorded.

[lisiecki1]

If you choose to record the conversations, MAKE SURE YOU TELL THEM AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CONVERSATION!!!!!! If you do not, it would be held inadmissable in court. My wife had some real problems before we got married, and I had to take the phone away from her and tell them they now deal with me. They didn't like dealing with me because they couldn't scare me into doing what they wanted. Also, try not to swear at them, it really doesn't help whatsoever. The one telemarketer that I took the phone from my wife was actually making her cry, he was a major bastard.

In Texas you don't have to inform anyone they are being recorded, no matter who called who.  Check your state laws.

[mauve66]

the debt collectors will NEVER record their phone calls, no matter what they say they are doing, those calls will put them in a very bad light to the judge, they will lie and cheat to get you to pay what THEY want.  If YOU document everything you will be covered.  they have no legs to stand on

[68charger383]

Obtain a copy of the bill and make sure they list the CPT codes for the services they are collecting for. Once you have the bills review them online at available sites to see the fee schedule paid for these codes by Medicare. Thye are usually paid about 120% of th3e medicare rate by private insuramce etc. Just because you don't have insurance doesn't mean you should pay $500 for a billed service that medicare will only pay $275.00 for and an insurance company $350.00. So once you get find out the amount everyone else pays call the collecter and discuss the issue and advise that will be the only amount you'll pay.