Lighter gen 2

[motorcitydak]

I know there are some guys that have stripped down their 68-70. What weight did you get down to and what did you do to lighten them up? I have seen the crazy things the FAST guys are doing. I know you can pull 600 pounds out of these cars, just want to see where it comes from.

[Charger440RDN]

Fiberglass hood & fenders? No seats except the driver seat? Hollow out the doors and dash? That's still not 600lbs though  

[Blown70]

Do this?

[motorcitydak]

I have the glass hood and fenders already. Im thinking about getting the fiberglass dash that VFN makes for a challenger iirc. They do not have one for a Charger, but I figure I mite be able to make it fit in my car, even if I have to widen it, it only weighs 4 pounds. Ill fill it with light gauges and an easily removable sound system. I will keep the stock dash just in case I want to put it back in.

I think it was car craft or something like that I was reading. A guy built a road runner to race FAST and he cut just over 600 pounds off the car. He is local to me, I should try to get a hold of him. They do things like gutting the gauges, wiper motor, cutting speed holes in the window arms, etc... He has to be stock appearing, so all everything must appear stock.

My dad used to be on an off shore race boat crew. They wanted to lighten the boat 100#. He said they could not see anywhere to pull that much weight. They ended up doing it tho by removing 1 pound from 100 places. That is what I am looking to do

[motorcitydak]

Do this?

Wow man that would be way cool, a plane ticket is in the mail. I mite have to consider that. It doesnt help that I just welded up the seams on the inner fenders. It would be a pain to cut out. What are you doing for a front suspension? I know your car is going more towards drag racing where Im going to be doing road racing and auto cross

[Blown70]

The car was done this way when purchased, sadly not all my work....  It had a Strange Racing front, but that would not work on the street at all... Sooo, Art Morrison street strut here I come.....  Below is a photo how it sits with a front coil over strut on it.....

[Blown70]

On a more serious noted.  IMO when you road race or auto cross you need parts that are strong.... not just light.  I guess, my concern would be make it strong, worry about weight second......

[Rolling_Thunder]

Loosing weight...

Fiberglass hood (pin on)
Fiberglass decklid (do they make one?)
Fiberglass Fenders
Fiberglass doors
Fiberglass racing seats
Aluminum heads
Aluminum master cylinder (no power brakes)
Aluminum WP housing
Aluminum WP
Aluminum intake manifold
Aluminum Wheels
No sound deadener
No rear seat
Lightweight Disc brakes
Carbon Fiber driveshaft
Lexan Windows
No carpet
headers
8 3/4 housing
No wiper motor
Tubular K-Member
Fiberglass Bumpers
Fiberglass Door shells (I think I have seen them somewhere before)
Aluminum bumper brackets


That's just to start.

[Blown70]

Fiberglass decklid (do they make one?)

YEP and I agree with all you said....too.... everything you can in ALUM.

[motorcitydak]

Well the motor is going to be a 5.7 Hemi. They weigh about 500#. That trans is rather heavy tho at 200+ but that will help a little bit getting the CG back a little.

VFN also has glass bumpers for front and rear. EDIT-sorry, I didnt see that you already posted that. But yes door shells are available too

There is obviously going to be a cage going in the car. What do you guys think if I cut out the entire front end except the front frame rails, welded in supports from the cage like Blown70's car and I put on a mustang 2 front end? They are stupid cheap and come with tubular control arms and rack and pinion steering. I know I would have to build a structure to hold the fenders, radiator and grill. Its just a thought. Is there another kit like that I could use that would have better geometry? Something maybe better suited for the track?

[Blown70]

Keep in mind from road or auto cross my car does not have a lick of strut support... ie., keep in mind that front radiator support creates a box or some support.  So if you do something like mine, which is not bad you will need want some strut support of some kind for SURE. 

I may add some Just need to start to mock up with a motor to see what I am going to do... seeing I am not as much of a drag racer as the car is... I would like to drive on the street.

Have you looked at some of the chassis company offerings,  like Art Morrison, Chris Alston Chassis works..etc?

[motorcitydak]

I have seen some of the pics of the art morrison stuff on google images but Im on the work computer rite now and for what ever reason, artmorrison.com is blocked for me. Im just glad you linked those pics rite to the site because I cannot see anything in photobucket

[G-man]

From what I have understood

Get an alluminium Block with everything alluminium in the engine (water housing etc etc etc as mentioned by rolling_thunder)

that will save 200lbs from stock iron.

Coil over suspension setup, another 150-175lbs saved

Get titanium bolts for the whole car made... not sure what you would save there but if u get a bucket and fill it up with all the normal bolts you will save quite a bit I believe.

Alluminium radiator

Alluminium wheels

The seats (the part they slide on, that metal they lock in to from floor) get that made in alluminium also.

Manual transmission with an Alluminium casing... pretty big save there to.

If you go all out fibreglass and make car look horrible... i see over 1000lbs comming out.

Im sure you can get 300kg (660lbs) out of the car with rear and front seats and all original steel panels (doors hood etc) still there.

Once u take that off to thats ur 1000+ lbs off.

[Mike DC]

A few points here:


- "Tubular" doesn't automatically make it glorious & immune to being a bad purchase.  Tubular just means the part was built by hand as opposed to an assembly line, nothing more.  If it's not a good item or it's the wrong item for the job then you still spent money & hacked the car for nothing.

- Remember that Mustangs are much smaller than chargers to begin with; it's basically like putting Mopar A-body parts onto a Charger.  (And Mustang front ends were still arguably pretty crappy compared to Mopar A-bodies.)




- The bolt-on panels will get you a few hundred pounds but not a ton.  A hood is like 60 pounds, a front fender is like 45 pounds apiece . . . 50-60% of these numbers instead of 100% of them isn't gonna be a gigantic difference.  The front clip & the doors & trunklid & the bumpers, it might all add up to 250-300 pounds.

-  Fiberglass front fenders:  They can be lighter than stock or they can fit reasonably well, but not both.  You can get away with ligher items that still fit tolerably well if it's a hood, or trunklid, or bumpers, sometimes even doors . . .  but not the front fenders.  Never the goddamn fenders.

[suntech]

I like the idea of getting the car a little lighter, but there are other things that is more important, and that is front/rear weight ratio, and chassis stiffness/rigidity.
I am hoping for app 3550 on my car and as close to 50/50 front /rear weight as possible.  Gotta remember that subframes, torque boxes, etc. that you want to put on to reduce bodyflex weighs quite a few pounds!!

What i am doing trying to get my car like this is:
All aluminum hemi, with fuel injection, and inlet manifold of aluminum/carbon. Drysump, with tank in the trunk.
Manual gearbox with aluminum housing (3 options....not gone shopping yet)
Griffin aluminum rad
Carbon hood
Carbon front valance
Carbon lock plate
Carbon deck lid
Mark Williams modular rearend, with complete aluminum centre.
Carbon driveshaft 
Battery in trunk
XV level II front suspention and brakes
XV level II rear suspention, modifyed to a 4 link/wattslink setup, XV brakes.

This will lighten up the car, and move the CG much further back, but remember that it doesnt help a freak´n bit to have the lightest car, if it sits on the ground with pretty much everything broken or warped after some "inspired" driving on country roads!! Kinda nice to have the doors fitting their holes even after you have putted some power to the ground 

[R2]

This is a link to the FAST site...they dont give any major secrets away...but recall Dave Dudek's car in some Mopar mags,,,,and some of the stuff he has done...

http://www.fastraces.org/

[motorcitydak]

Thanks for all your comments guys. I know everyone says glass looks like shit. I am going to have to find out. I am getting them tomorrow and for $100 I do not see how I can go wrong. These pieces weigh about 5 pounds a piece, so there is 80 off the front end. My hood is about 10 pounds so there is another 50 pounds off. Remember tho that I still have my origional steel fenders. They have been blasted and painted with epoxy primer, but still need a ton of work to get all the dents out.

I will also be not using the heater or a/c so that will save more weight not just in the heater box but also the lines, controls and coolant that would fill it. I do understand that it is important to have that 50/50 weight distribution. I will also be moving the battery to the truck. I am mostly concentrating on pulling weight off the front end. Keep in mind again that I am not using a 383 or a 440. It is going to be a 5.7 Hemi, they are about 500# there and it will not have the a/c compressor of the power steering pump.

I also called up Fatman fab who makes a lot of mustang 2 front ends. They did not have anything I could use. I called Chris Alston too about the G Machine front end, they said I can just call em up with the width of the rails and the width I want. It would be about $4800

[Nacho-RT74]

I have found some rusted cars LIGHTER TOO

[R2]

There is a guy named Sean on the Moparts site,,,,goes by "Plumcrazycharger",,,,,,, he has a SERIOUS race car,,,,,,super light,,,,i enclosed a pic,,,,
He might be able to give some tips on making your car lighter,,,,,,
His car is a work of art............

[elanmars]

There is a guy named Sean on the Moparts site,,,,goes by "Plumcrazycharger",,,,,,, he has a SERIOUS race car,,,,,,super light,,,,i enclosed a pic,,,,
He might be able to give some tips on making your car lighter,,,,,,
His car is a work of art............

there's another ugly Charger to be added to the threads where questionable things are done to Chargers....

[Nacho-RT74]

there's another ugly Charger to be added to the threads where questionable things are done to Chargers....

[HPP]

On top of the big, obvious things like body panels and glass, you have to find 100 places to cut out a pound to make it all add up. This means getting creative with some items. For example, instead of an 8 oz steel fender support rod, you use a 2 oz aluminum strap. You dig all the carpet and jute backing out and replace it with cheap, light weight fuzz, or nothing at all, instead of a steel trunk divider, you use aluminum. Steel brackets change to aluminum. Ultra lite guages instead of standard. Every part has to be looked at and considered for its application, structure, and material to see if it can be replaced or substituted. And yes, if you want to get really serious, carbon fiber instead of fiberglass and titanium instead of aluminum or steel. Just be ready to pay.  The cost per pound begins to get very large the further you go in to things and if you look at weight loss as a budget item, your perspective of what you can , or want to do, may change when it cost $150 a pound to drop weight.

Just for grins, here are some titanium lug nuts; .0005 pounds and $7 each. How light do you want to be? http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Titanium-Course-Lug-Nut-5-8-Inch-11,4814.html

[Troy]

How about losing weight on the driver? I race mountain bikes and I see guys all the time trying to save grams from their bike parts yet they outweigh me by 60-80 pounds. I know the vehicle to operator weight ratio is way different but the concept is still valid.

Did anyone mention getting rid of the console yet? How about making fiberglass panels instead of upper door pads? Interior parts weigh a LOT and aren't structural.

Troy

[BrianShaughnessy]

What's the intended use of the car?   A lightweight racecar is one thing.     Driving it on the street is another.   Metal bumpers have a purpose in my mind... maybe not somebody elses.

For all that matters,   some company (thought it was VFN but I don't see it in their current online catalog) was making an entire fiberglass body shell for 68/9 Road Runner along with the door shells, hood, fenders, decklid, etc.    Gotta see if I can find that again.

[skip68]

    OK guys, here is my dumb  ...  What ever happened to just making the car faster and not lighter ?     If I gutted my 68 Charger of everything even the glass, and just made it a 2,000lb rolling shell I'm sure it would be faster than some of the more powerfull cars here.  But, could I really brag about beating them ?     Did I earn it ?  If I run my car, it will be a fully dressed 68 Charger honest real time.    MORE MOTOR BOYS ! ! ! If we want a true drag car we are using the wrong cars.  Use smaller lighter cars.     I would be mad if I built my motor up only to be beat by a guy in the same car gutted with less motor .     Sorry guys but I guess I'm old school.  I don't agree with giving car length's either.  Racing should not be a fast normal person competing in the special olympics.    If you give a slow car a big enough lead he just might make it to the finish line first.     So how in the hell does that justify a win ?  This is one reason I hate "Pinks".  The other is all the B.S. you hear just to watch 30 seconds of racing per show.     To me it just becomes more on the driver and not the car.   Don't get me wrong, I love drag racing... I just like it to be fair, heads up racing.  Again, don't kill me guys for my