AUTO SALESMEN: Sis bought a Mag Wagon & got reamed...how does she get out of it?

[ChargerBill]

I need some advice on how to help my sister and brother-in-law get out of an impulse buy they made on Sunday. First off, they didn't research ANYTHING (which really has always pi$$ed me off about them). Secondly, they drove up to the dealership with their trade-in vehicle (a 2001 Chrysler 300) that they still owed $7K on. They sales guy said he would cut them a GREAT deal on this 5.7Hemi Magnum...$29,000 out the door. The dealership only gave them $11,000 on the 300 (and used 300's in excellent shape with only 40K miles are going for 14K to 18K right now) and they also made them negative finance the $7K they still owed. PLUS, what they thought was 6% financing ended up 10.4% financing! $660/month for 7 years...! They got screwed and need to plead stupidity and ask them to reverse the deal and get their trade-in back. Any way to ENCOURAGE the dealership to do so? Lawyer? Bad press? They want to be civil, but in retrospect feel like they were taken advantage of big time...and I tend to agree considering how hard of a time they are having selling Magnum Wagons right now... Anyone have any advice?

Does this sound like a GREAT deal to anyone?

[Ponch ®]

Isnt there like a 3 day rule where you can take the car back? Im not sure and I could be talking out of my ass, but see if you can look it up.

[andy74]

Bill, pm me if you need some help

dependant on where you live and the circumstance of the deals,the dealer is probably not obligated to void the contract,or take the car back.if they took delivery of the vehicle,ignorance of the figures will not stand up in court,but a written work sheet/purchase order showing that the deal was contingent on the rate,terms or trade will.

now, if they are reputable,which i am going to lean towards they are not,they will void the contract and let bygones be bygones.a well placed call to a local tv station and newspaper would work too.

like i said,with out seeing the contract and the whole deal i cant answer for 100% but i hope this helps,if not the answer you are looking for-Andy

[andy74]

federal law is that there is no 3 day right of recsion,unless you buy the car off the dealers property,such as a tent sale,off site or the customers house

[ChargerBill]

Thanks Andy, I'll keep you posted...

Mojo, yes, there used to be a 3 day cooling off period, but guess who lobbied to remove that consumer safegaurd? yep, it no longer exists

[andy74]

Bill, if you want to call me ,the office number is 315-487-6211,ask for andy bourque(burk)im here until 8 pm on tuesday,wednesday and 6 pm on thurs and friday

[MichaelRW]

Maybe I missed something but if they got $11,000 for the trade in and owed $7,000 why would they have to negative finance anything. That should have left $4,000 to the good towards the cost of the new car. If the new car cost $29,000, did they finance $25,000?

$660 per month for 84 months is $55,440. That's almost as much interest as the car cost. Dang! Something sounds really fishy. Call your state's department of consumer affairs (if your state has such a thing). If memory serves me right, you live in California. If so, they should be able to give you advice if there is any recourse available.

[Telvis]

Dear God!!! 

[Shakey]

.....I could be talking out of my ass.....

Please don't Ponch! 

[andy74]

those figures dont add up-i just ran a payment on a 29000 bottom line,less 11000 trade,plus 7000 payoff,and even if the rate is 10.8 for 72 months,the payments are in the 460-465 range- a 29,000 sell price plus tax etc is still only 510,if they got 7000 for the car,and owed 11000-that is where the payment comes close to what they have,thats like 12800 in interest alone.

like i said, let me know if i can help-Andy

[last426]

Thanks Andy, I'll keep you posted...

Mojo, yes, there used to be a 3 day cooling off period, but guess who lobbied to remove that consumer safegaurd? yep, it no longer exists

There was never a cooling off period on a car bought at a lot. Frankly, legally a deal is a deal.  The best recourse is some negotiation to bring the car back along with a bundle of bucks.  Good luck -- sometimes those salesmen are really good and earn their commission.  Oh, if a lawyer tells you he can do something, run Forest, run (or ask me and I will tell you if it is legit).  Kim

[694spdRT]

Wow! I realize trade in values are in the tank now but, that is really bad. Doubt there is much to be done about it if everything was disclosed properly though.

Unless that Magnum is a completely loaded AWD 2006 model they probably could have just bought it outright for $29,000 or less and kept the other car. I considered buying a 2005 AWD Hemi Magnum with an MSRP of $41,000 that had 5,000 miles on it a couple months ago.  With my 2001 Mercury Sable trade it would have been $22,900 to boot. I passed on the deal and your sister's 300M should be worth more than my Sable anyday. 

This reminds me of a 30 year old co-worker that never realized there were negotiations in car buying...she thought it was like going to the store and you pay what the price on the sticker was.

It happens all the time though...the 2005 Ram diesel I just got was traded back in on a Stratus because the guy could not afford it anymore. Bad for him but, good for me because he lost a ton on it and I got the benefit.

[BigBlackDodge]

People normally go with the 7 years to have lower payments................I can't imagine what a 60 month payment plan would be on that thing?


BBD

[Silver R/T]

hope they get their 300C back

[69charger2002]

hahaha, there is no way your sister's husband could have been dumb enough to be taken THAT BAD.. even after being tricked into being "upside down", add warranty upgrades, paying sticker price for new car etc. there is NO WAY when they came back in after all that and said   $660 for 84 months that he could have agreed.. if so, i'd love to meet him.. that is absolutely insane.. for 60 months that would be an almost $1000/month note.. you don't see that often with or without a trade.. he could have bought a SRT-10 ram for that straight out for that kind of note
some people have no sense of finances
trav

[ChargerBill]

OK, here's the deal...My sister explained the trade-in wrong to me. What actually happened is that they owed $18,000 on the 300M and the dealer only gve them $11,000 for it, leaving a $7,000 finance debt from the 300M. The dealer added the $7,000 debt to the $29,000 purchase price and it came to 10.4% for 7 years, or $660 per month.

UPDATE: As of tonight they went in and the dealer without even complaining or balking about it knocked $4,000 off the purchase price which brought their total payments down to $565/month for 7 years. That ought to be a good indication of how MUCh they padded this sale. Also, I called into the dealer at about 5:00 tonight and asked if they ahd any used Intrepids or 300's on the lot. The SAME salesman said he had a 2003 (I thought it was a 2002) 300M with 42,000 miles on it for $16,500. So, they also are trying to make $5,500 on a used car that was in "marginal" shape when my sister turned it in. I'll tell you, these car salesmen are a shady bunch. Not ALL of them, but man there sure are some @$$holes out there.

So, $565 for 84 months is STILL $47,460 for a car that they NOW say they sold for $25,000. And no, they DIDN'T reduce the 10.4% rate, and my sister has excellent credit... What's up with that? Are they making a profit off the extra percentage points?

[ChargerBill]

hahaha, there is no way your sister's husband could have been dumb enough to be taken THAT BAD.. even after being tricked into being "upside down", add warranty upgrades, paying sticker price for new car etc. there is NO WAY when they came back in after all that and said   $660 for 84 months that he could have agreed.. if so, i'd love to meet him.. that is absolutely insane.. for 60 months that would be an almost $1000/month note.. you don't see that often with or without a trade.. he could have bought a SRT-10 ram for that straight out for that kind of note
some people have no sense of finances
trav

I agree...I'm somewhat shocked myself. Of course, i won't rub it in, but he already knows that I'm pretty pissed that they didn't come to me first. Not only do I know the owner of the local Dodge dealership AND the owner of another dealership in town who brokers Dodge sales, but they also know that I've never paid mre than $700 over MSRP for ANY car I've owned. AND, they know that I'm into Dodges and could have given them some advice on options and pricing... For my brother-in-law to let this happen shows a complete inability to mange his household, and my sister. (and believe me, she needs managing)

[TK73]

I can't stand dealing with car salesmen. You guys know the general opinion...

HOWEVER: "caveat ēmptor"

[Spartan]

allot of the sales tactics come from the type of dealership it is.   I have never bought from a high pressure or large dealership, IMO they are more interested in moving what is on their lot then selling you what you want.   I   have also gotten low-balled bad on trade ins.   They seem to test the waters to see if you know what you are doing and put the screws to you if you don't (like when my wife goes out looking on her own).   My impression is they go for the quick kill and not a repeat customer.   I have usually bought from smaller dealerships that are intersted in repeat and service business and really try to work with you and are upfront about everything.   I had one guy refer me to a buddy on a used car lot to sell my Sebring because they they could not offer me enough on a trade in.   The buddy got me 2k more for the car and the dealer got the sale, we all won.

My wife is impulsive like your sister too Bill,   I'm just lucky I am the bread-winner and she needs me to sign for it.

[andy74]

hey guys, we arent all like that! yes there are a lot of shady bastards in th ecar buiss,but not all of us.i work for a small store,3 sales man,me,and the owner and his uncle(retireing salesmanager)if i had some one who worked for me try and screw someone like that i would have fired him.yes,i am here to make a profit,but i dont see the need to make 5-7 thousand on a customer,be it front end or f and i. as for the trade value,yes wholesale values are in the shitter,i am buying 05 grand caravans,stow and go sxt that stickered for 28 grand for about 14 at the auction,and selling them for 16.after inspection,lube oil filter and detail we net 1200-1500,of wich the sales man gets 250-300.i wish i had people paying 5500 profits,but it never would happen!but you always start some where,it sounds like bills sister got under cut on her trade value,and of course that gets added to the profit.if i lived in your town bill, i would tell everyone in the world this story,and how fast they refunded the 4 grand,word of mouth hurts a bad dealer as much as it helps a good one.
as a matter of fact,where i work has been here for 77 years,and i havent been able to get a new customer for myself in a few years,im to busy with the repeat,referals and the family members of the people i alraeday have dealt with,plus the normal everday operation of the store-before you throw stones,remember that all sales people arent like this slimy bastard that they dealt with-Andy, off the soap box

[doechsle]

 It is frustrating when a friend or family member goes out and does this. You have to let it go. No boby tied those people up and made them agree to the terms to get to go home, they agree to them themselves. The government is not here to protect people from themselves. If you go into a store and they tell you they want $3.50 for a 12 oz. can of Coke most people would not buy it,they would try somewhere else.How do you think Dealerships can buy large prime tracts of Real Estate to build these Car lots on? The ultimate responsibility of each persons well being relies upon themselves.

[Old Moparz]

Andy,

If you were closer to where I am, I'd have probably been a new Dodge owner a lot sooner. I see the typical stereotype of a greedy dealership, or pushy salespeople quite often, & usually walk. It pays to do your homework on whatever you buy & know what you want before you spend, but sometimes people get too emotional & caught up in the excitement of the new item. I haven't bought too many brand new vehicles, but I can see how some sales people really try to hype up the whole new car ownership experience. It's bad when the customer fall into it, because they don't look past the fact they'll be in a new car & end up paying too much, & sometimes not even know it.

Bob

[andy74]

thanks Bob!

[Orange_Crush]

So, $565 for 84 months is STILL $47,460 for a car that they NOW say they sold for $25,000. And no, they DIDN'T reduce the 10.4% rate, and my sister has excellent credit... What's up with that? Are they making a profit off the extra percentage points?

In a word...Yes.

[Old Moparz]

I think a lot of people don't know that the financing & the price of the car are tied together. Before my wife bought her first new car back in 1988, I bought a book that was written by someone who worked in auto sales. I wish I still had it, but it was basically a "how to" type book, that explained the whole process from dealerships getting the cars from the manufacturer, right through the costs, financing & the buyers. The writer started out as a salesperson & worked his way up into managing positions at several dealerships. The book was fantastic, because it wasn't written like an economics text book that would put you to sleep.

He had some funny & bizarre stories that went way back before certain laws were in effect to protect consumers. One of the biggest things I remember was how the salesperson always asks you "What do you want to pay each month?" & how it's totally irrelevant to the price on the car. The example he gave was when a very shrewd customer haggled with the price on a car with them for a couple of hours. They went back & forth on options, what they would or wouldn't include, & finally arrived at a price. He said he couldn't wait to be done & the customer was gone. It was only a small profit for the dealer on this one, but it was enough to make it worthwhile.

After all the haggling, the customer announces "Now, as for my monthly payment, I ain't spending one penny over $200 bucks!!" The salesman's mouth dropped open & he said he'd work it out. The price they agreed to would have put the monthly payment at about $160, but since the customer had no clue & said $200 was the limit, the salesman & the finance guy played with the interest rates & terms so the total price of the car went up, & the payment was $196. The salesman looked like a good guy to the customer because he saved him $4 on the payment, but in reality, the customer got reamed.