New 5-speed manual

[Cooter]

$5000.00 For one more gear......Hmmmmmm...Lemme think on it...NOPE!

[BrianShaughnessy]

Passon's 18 spline OD 4-speed itself is $3000 - I can imagine their 5-speed will be around $4500 - $5500

Basically it brings the cost in line to the Tremec, etc.   A true bolt in 5 speed sounds great on paper at that price because of what else one does NOT have to change to put it in...  alas...    another great idea  ( 5 years later.) .   

[bull]

Another toy for the rich boys. Screw this. You can buy 25-40 used 4 speed 833s out of older pickups for that much cash. http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,63142.0.html

I just don't get where people get off charging all they possibly can for this stuff? It's seriously f^(king annoying, and I'm not even in the market for a transmission. It's the principle of it. I get real tired of 80% of the parts prices being geared toward the millionaire Hemi car owners. Jay Leno buys five of whatever and the company's in the black with one check and can then sit there waiting for the rest of us schmucks to save a grand a year for five years. When I took business classes in college they always said lower prices will increase sales. Guess that concept never made it into the Mopar hobby vendors' heads.

[BrianShaughnessy]

Another toy for the rich boys. Screw this. You can buy 25-40 used 4 speed 833s out of older pickups for that much cash. http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,63142.0.html

I just don't get where people get off charging all they possibly can for this stuff? It's seriously f^(king annoying, and I'm not even in the market for a transmission. It's the principle of it. I get real tired of 80% of the parts prices being geared toward the millionaire Hemi car owners. Jay Leno buys five of whatever and the company's in the black with one check and can then sit there waiting for the rest of us schmucks to save a grand a year for five years. When I took business classes in college they always said lower prices will increase sales. Guess that concept never made it into the Mopar hobby vendors' heads.

Then go buy a few 833 OD's and keep your bitching and moaning to yourself for a change.

You have no concept of how much it costs to design and build either of the new trans being made either by Mcleod or by Passon. 

The price is what the market will bear over the costs involved and  the seller is entitled to some profit.   

[375instroke]

I don't see how we can compare 30 to 50 year old transmissions, built with great economies of scale, to a newly designed, more complex, brand new product, with far less scaling.

[bull]

Then go buy a few 833 OD's and keep your bitching and moaning to yourself for a change.

You have no concept of how much it costs to design and build either of the new trans being made either by Mcleod or by Passon. 

The price is what the market will bear over the costs involved and  the seller is entitled to some profit.   

Who are you? My mom? I'll bitch if I feel like it. If you don't like the way I deliver my opinions don't read 'em.

[BrianShaughnessy]

Who are you? My mom? I'll bitch if I feel like it. If you don't like the way I deliver my opinions don't read 'em.

Unfortunately this site doesn't have an ignore feature like moparts.   

[bull]

Well, try using the one God gave you.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Well - to get this back on topic - I could not justify $5000 for a 5-speed swap...    aint no way...    I have a Tremec 3550 series trans, hydraulic clutch set up, and some floor modifications for less than $3000...

I look at it this way - if the trans is $5000...   you would still need a scattershield, clutch, yoke, u-joints...       I would calc these in because if you're putting this thing behind something (say 500-800hp) you should run a scattershield...    you will need the rest due to sheer strength issues of stock pieces...       So add another $1000 on top of that ?   So you would have a 5-speed trans behind a 600hp big block...       for $6000.00     

Don't get me wrong - I love the fact people are making things for us (consumers) but I agree with Bull that that seems a little out of reach for MOST people in the hobby -  If I was to put it behind a stock-ish 440 or 383 I would just run a factory OD trans....       

[Blown70]

Bull, not sure I get your reason for complaining about price other than to complain?  Bull (curtis?)  Dont get me wrong, but what would you even need this for.... Your 383 build is not meant from what I understand to be more than slightly better than stock?  Again, just what I gather.

To me if your going to build a motor that is going to push 800hp/800tq, YOU or whomever well more than knows whatever tranny they put behind is NOT going to be cheap... Even if you do an 727 or power glide, you will spend just about 3000 or better.  Horse power is not cheap NOR or the parts that have to handle that HP.... and dont even think you will runn 800 hp through a 8 3/4 for a long time.

Again, not trying to bust your_____ well maybe I am but just my observation.

personally, I dont know myself if I would pay that, time may tell.

Tom

[suntech]

To me if your going to build a motor that is going to push 800hp/800tq, YOU or whomever well more than knows whatever tranny they put behind is NOT going to be cheap... Even if you do an 727 or power glide, you will spend just about 3000 or better.  Horse power is not cheap NOR or the parts that have to handle that HP.... and dont even think you will runn 800 hp through a 8 3/4 for a long time.

Well putted!!

[bull]

Bull, not sure I get your reason for complaining about price other than to complain?  Bull (curtis?)  Dont get me wrong, but what would you even need this for.... Your 383 build is not meant from what I understand to be more than slightly better than stock?  Again, just what I gather.

If you look above you'll see where I said I'm not in the market for one. Anyway, I'm not going to worry about it since it has no effect on me other than I think this and other examples has a negative effect on the hobby and its attainability for the average Joe. Seems the prices just keep creeping up making it more and more a rich man's game. In a sense I also see little difference between something like this and what Premier Plastics has done. PP makes a crappy grille and screws people over but they're being made so no one else will touch the market. On the other side of the coin now we're probably going to get a $5,000 transmission (the price is still speculation) but they're being made so no one else will touch the market; mainly because it's Mopar. Bad timing for a $2,300 Chinese trans that requires mods so it will probably go away (so be it). So we'll be stuck with two aftermarket 5 or 6-speeds that run between $3,500 for Keisler and probably $5,000 or more for the Passon. Where's the middle ground we're always looking for? Where's the Mopar equivalent to the Mustang Keisler Borg-Warner $1,500 special? Don't you guys ever get fed up with paying jacked up prices for 0-2 choices while the GM/Ford guys pick their price from 10-20 different items? We either get $1,000 tail lights for a 68 or nothing. I swear sometimes Mopar guys must secretly enjoy taking it in the shorts.

[Troy]

What kind of person builds and 800 HP motor and then whines about a $5000 transmission? I'm betting not too many. As mentioned, the car that needs a stick shift capable of those levels will probably already have $3k or more in the rear end. That's what's nice about having options - you buy what you need. Passon's 4-speed OD is cheaper and fits just like stock - although some people don't like the gear spread (still better than a stock 4-speed if you drive on the highway). The Keisler (Tremec T5) will not handle that sort of power and requires some modification to the car. The factory OD 4-speed probably wouldn't make it out of the driveway with that much power. If you had a lot less power then your range of choices is pretty varied. I could see the complaints if it were the only option.

On the other hand, with 800 HP the car is probably heavily modified any way so who worries about the trans looking and fitting like stock? If you want stock buy the stock stuff.

Troy

[bull]

Does it say somewhere the Passon is rated for 800 hp? The topic that started this thread is about a $2,300 trans. Oh, nevermind. I'm done.

Right, I keep forgetting the two main rules on threads like this. 1. Smile and nod; agree no matter what. 2. Ask no questions, especially about the pricing. Just take what they give you and shut up.

[200MPH]

I think everyone here has valid points about the cost reliabity and so on. I think that Bull has some good points  especailly the quote "there has to be some middle ground some where" or something of that effect. the brand X guys always have a choice or a middle ground in how they modify their vehicles and i think we should have some too.

Not bit)(*&g or taking sides Iam in agreement with everyone I appreciate Passons hard work in getting a product for "Us" so to speak 

[Troy]

Does it say somewhere the Passon is rated for 800 hp? The topic that started this thread is about a $2,300 trans. Oh, nevermind. I'm done.

Right here:

Jamie says that they are buildt to hold 800+ hp / 800+ footpounds of torque 

The $2,300 trans will require you to cut out most of the center hump in the floor and the shifter will be in the wrong place. Ok for some people I guess - not the resto crowd. It's still just the transmission - not a whole conversion. I don't know how many people are willing to go that route just to go to shows and cruise-ins across town. I still don't think any of these conversions are geared towards the regular guy (who would survive just fine with an 833 OD or he could just keep his trusty ol' 727).

Either way, a manufacturer has a right to create products and market them to whoever they want. If customers don't buy the stuff then the manufacturer will make what they have better, make something else, lower prices, or go bankrupt. It is not a small undertaking to design and build mass production level quality parts. Considering the production numbers of Chrysler cars I'm surprised there are as many after market manufacturers as there are. What is usually part of the Mopar appeal can also be a bite in the rear.

Believe me, I have a '70 Mustang and, while repro parts are cheap, half of them don't fit or are of poor quality. The *only* saving grace is that the reproduction stuff is reasonably priced (not as heartbreaking to mess up and throw away a $13 inner fender as it is a $170 one). The NOS and original parts are still expensive. For example, I've recently seen a front fender for my car $1,499, rear spoiler for $700, and a shaker air cleaner for $1,600. Since Ford didn't destroy all their tooling in the 80s (like Chrysler) you can still buy reproduction parts made on "original tooling" but the pricing is typically 40-80% higher than the non-original reproductions. Don't forget that Ford's licensing is cheaper than Mopar. Staying on topic - I can buy 3 complete clutch setups for less than a single Mopar flywheel...

Troy

[Cool_Hand]

it's also made in china......if you hold out,passon performance is in the middle of making a 5 speed of there own.it is due out sometime in the spring.it is suposed to be a direct bolt in,and made in the usa.

Hi, gotta chime in so that consideration is as fair as possible and possibilities open up for musclecar owners, including AMC ones-  a group which I belong to. I talked with the Paul Lee of McLeod, he said they are going to try and make the new 5 speed in Placentia, but that it's too early to speculate or release details. He did say that they are deciding. He did say pricing was fixed. Don't know if 2300 is the figure though. The important point is to call him and stress, as I did, that as a potential customer, where the trans is made is crucial and that your dollar will go elsewhere if they can't make a US transmission. We as customers need to make clear, up front, where our preferences lie and what we'll spend our money on. If a manufacturer cares about you and the bottom line, they'll listen. If not, then they deserve whatever business they lose as a result. That assumes that customers are informed and want quality, over price.

Steve

[Rolling_Thunder]

Wow - you guys and your "made in USA" mentality...    can we stick to the topic at hand ?    I would refrain from labeling McLeod as a "china" transmission until the facts are discovered...       

[SFRT]

interesting. I have been very close to popping for a richmond 5 speed, maybe I will wait a little and see how the Passon one develops before i do so. the 'less modifications' recquired sound pretty good.

[oldschool]

Wow - you guys and your "made in USA" mentality...    can we stick to the topic at hand ?    I would refrain from labeling McLeod as a "china" transmission until the facts are discovered...       

whats wrong with "made in USA" mentality? just curious.....

[Rolling_Thunder]

well I was avoiding that long debate to try to keep the subject on topic -

In shot we are in a global economy - parts are made overseas due to cost. People will claim that money goes to foreign countries - however i would argue that the US gets trillions of $ in foreign investors.

I just dont think "made in usa" means the same thing anymore - back when it used to mean something but it has changed...   

[oldschool]

i agree 100%.

[Blown70]

Right, I keep forgetting the two main rules on threads like this. 1. Smile and nod; agree no matter what. 2. Ask no questions, especially about the pricing. Just take what they give you and shut up.

Naw just dont piss and moan about the prices of products that come out.  Or better yet bull start your own company and see how you do selling parts at "cut rate" prices.

Sorry Bull, gets old.  But you are welcome to your own opinioin, but dont be shocked when people get sick of the constant whining.....

Tom

[Cooter]

Well, to help 'ol Bull out here, I did a 5-speed swap for under $300 Purchase price of the trans included, in the General Lee...I can't lean on it, or I'll have cluster gears from a T-5 all over the road (440), but I still get the benefit of an overdrive on the cheap...It takes ALOT of custom fab. work to get one in the car, and you DO have to cut out some key things and reinforce a few things that you cut out...Most are after a "Bolt-in" "Plug and Play" type set up that doesn't require alot of cutting and that costs big money...I on the other hand can fab so it doesn't bother me....Everybody looked at me like I was crazy and even told me so when I was doing the swap.. but after 2 years of trouble free cruising, they all wanted to know how I did it so cheap and what was involved. I don't beat on that car, so it works for me....I know where you are comin' from Bull, as I too am a cheap Bast*d when it comes to high dollar "Next New thing".....

[suntech]

A couple of things that i am thinking about reading here, and i dont really understand. It started out with the McLeod box, that supposedly was going to be manufatured in the far east. Then people are unhappy with the quality, without even know how the quality is!!
Then this new box from Passion comes up, and manufactured in the US. Then people complain about the price, without even knowing the price!! 
It seems that some are not aware of the fact that things are getting buildt/manufactured for different purposes!!  I have never heard of anybody that has argued (without joking) about trunk space in a Ferrari!!
If you have a 400 hp motor, and dont even abuse that, you can get away with pretty much any gearcase.
If you have a 800 hp motor, and want to abuse it, well that has a pricetag!!!!