New 5-speed manual

[375instroke]

Anyone seen this yet?

http://video.stangtv.com/video/11000

http://www.stangtv.com/forum/mcleod-hits-high-gear-their-new-6035.html

http://www.bangshift.com/blog/Bangshift-Approved-The-McLeod-M-800-5-Speed-Transmission.html

[Blown70]

    Hmmm nice 

[tan top]

intresting 

[mally69]

very cool i want to know a price 

[Rubberduck]

some more info:

http://www.ontariostreetcar.com/2009/11/10/mcleod-builds-a-clean-sheet-bullet-proof-5-speed/


price? Rumors say $ 2300.-



Mario

[Tom Q]

It will not fit in the tunnel without modification....however I am not going to explain why much further.

It should be very obvious to some one of reasonable intelligence by examining a factory 833 trans in an E body or a 68-70 B body and see that there is no room  above the trans to fit the new hardware...shades of snakes in tennessee

[oldschool]

it's also made in china......if you hold out,passon performance is in the middle of making a 5 speed of there own.it is due out sometime in the spring.it is suposed to be a direct bolt in,and made in the usa.

[LeadfootBob]

800 foot pounds?! Gimme dat!

[200MPH]

looks interesting,but you say Passon is building a 5 speed ??  spill it!

[Troy]

 

Troy

[oldschool]

this is from jamie at passion performance.

Well,
I was not going to say anything just yet, BUT I feel that in light of the recent buzz about the McLeod trans, I guess it won't hurt.

For a couple years now, we have been working on a NEW 5 Speed trans for Chrysler cars. We were not aware that McLeod was also doing it.

This is a clean sheet project. In other words, we are building this from the ground up. Due to our extensive experience with the cars that it must fit into, our individual designs that we will be offering will make installation easy. In fact, we feel that it will be something that the average guy can put in their car in just a few hours.

This unit will be a BOLT IN!!!!!!! No monkey business with driveline angles, notching torsion bar crossmembers, redrilling bellhouisngs, changing clutches. You will retain your ORIGINAL shifter handle in the ORIGINAL location. The unit will look like it came from the factory in the car. It will be a HURST style shifter arrangement with external linkage, just like the design of shifter that these great cars left the factory with.

There will be an A Body trans
There will be a B Body trans ('63- '69)
There will be a'70 - UP B/E Body trans.

You will use your ORIGINAL driveshaft and yoke
You will use your ORIGINAL transmission crossmember and trans mount
You will use your ORIGINAL bellhousing
You will use your ORIGINAL flywheel,
You will use your ORIGINAL clutch and throwout bearing (18 spline only)

The unit WILL fit under the floor pan with no modifications.

Due to the simplicity here, it WILL be as easy as changing the trans. Truly an afternoon job.

As for cost... I can tell you this, it will not be $2300.00, HOWEVER, I feel that the price will be fair considering that the unit is MADE for the car. Versus taking an existing trans and trying to shoehorn it in and not cut the car as other manufacturers have tried in the past.

To accomplish the project, we have drawn on the years of gear cutting experience from our partner GFI. This is the organization that we have been working with our very successful Hemi OD project. They have a brand new CNC gear cutting facility that WE will be manufacturing the units.in.

And now for the BEST part.......

IT IS MANUFACTURED IN THE USA!

There will be more to come....

--------------------
Passon Performance
309 Turkey Path
Sugarloaf, PA 18249
(570) 401 8949
www.passonperformance.com

[oldschool]

some more info....

O.K.,
I FINALLY got a minute here.

First I would like to say thank you for all the encouragement. This is definitely the largest thing that we have ever undertaken. However, it seems to be coming together nicely.

I have three gear ratio options. The difference is the 5th gear ratio.

Option#1
1st 2.64
2nd 1.92
3rd 1.40
4th 1.00
5th .75

Option #2
1st 2.64
2nd 1.92
3rd 1.40
4th 1.00
5th .71

Option #3
1st 2.64
2nd 1.92
3rd 1.40
4th 1.00
5th .66

We are possibly considering a different 1st gear ratio as well, but it is likely that we necessitate changing 2nd and 3rd as well to accomodate. I am not sure about that yet.

So, can everyone that is interested, give me some feedback on these ratios. I feel that we are prepared to make two ratios.
Thanks,
Jamie

--------------------
Passon Performance
309 Turkey Path
Sugarloaf, PA 18249
(570) 401 8949

[200MPH]

  looking forward to this Subscribing!

[Hemidog]

 

So I guess auto cars still need the 4-speed hump?

[suntech]

Talked to Jamie there just now, and gotta idmit that this sounds tempting.  I have had my mind set on a 6 speed for a long time now, but thinking and calculating, this will be nice. With my 3.25 rear, and a redline on, lets say 6000, i would have app 1600 rpm´s between the gears, through all gears, with option # 2 ( .71 on 5th).
Would need the 4 speed hump in the tunnel, but that should be it!
Jamie says that they are buildt to hold 800+ hp / 800+ footpounds of torque 
Sounds like a very nice "big cube" gearcase 

[mally69]

it's also made in china......if you hold out,passon performance is in the middle of making a 5 speed of there own.it is due out sometime in the spring.it is suposed to be a direct bolt in,and made in the usa.

ill wait for this one, sounds to be better , i only hope it will handle the a stroker.

[suntech]

i only hope it will handle the a stroker.

See post above

[mally69]

i only hope it will handle the a stroker.

See post above

   musta scanned over that one sorry fella.   does sound like its gonna be a very nice tranny now this has got me thinking about scratching the auto,

[bull]

I assume when he says it will not be $2,300 he's not saying it will be less than...

[Rolling_Thunder]

I assume when he says it will not be $2,300 he's not saying it will be less than...

I would assume a lot more than $2300...     

[mally69]

I assume when he says it will not be $2,300 he's not saying it will be less than...

I would assume a lot more than $2300...    

 from the sounds of it, its gonna be an expensive upgrade. but what can you expect from a basically direct bolt in upgrade that, that can handle that much power .  if its any over 3k ill stick with my auto.

[Tom Q]

I have volunteered my E body to be a test vehicle, I can't wait...

[suntech]

Remember that a manual gearbox made to hold 800+ hp will not be  "thrown at you" for nickles and dimes!! The other options are T-56 from D&D performance or Rockland Standard Gear, at app 6K, or a Quaiffe, at app 10-12 K!!

[Cooter]

Or, my good 'ol Stand by....The Brutal A833 I've been pounding on for years...And it cost me $650.00

[Rolling_Thunder]

Passon's 18 spline OD 4-speed itself is $3000 - I can imagine their 5-speed will be around $4500 - $5500

[Cooter]

$5000.00 For one more gear......Hmmmmmm...Lemme think on it...NOPE!

[BrianShaughnessy]

Passon's 18 spline OD 4-speed itself is $3000 - I can imagine their 5-speed will be around $4500 - $5500

Basically it brings the cost in line to the Tremec, etc.   A true bolt in 5 speed sounds great on paper at that price because of what else one does NOT have to change to put it in...  alas...    another great idea  ( 5 years later.) .   

[bull]

Another toy for the rich boys. Screw this. You can buy 25-40 used 4 speed 833s out of older pickups for that much cash. http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,63142.0.html

I just don't get where people get off charging all they possibly can for this stuff? It's seriously f^(king annoying, and I'm not even in the market for a transmission. It's the principle of it. I get real tired of 80% of the parts prices being geared toward the millionaire Hemi car owners. Jay Leno buys five of whatever and the company's in the black with one check and can then sit there waiting for the rest of us schmucks to save a grand a year for five years. When I took business classes in college they always said lower prices will increase sales. Guess that concept never made it into the Mopar hobby vendors' heads.

[BrianShaughnessy]

Another toy for the rich boys. Screw this. You can buy 25-40 used 4 speed 833s out of older pickups for that much cash. http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,63142.0.html

I just don't get where people get off charging all they possibly can for this stuff? It's seriously f^(king annoying, and I'm not even in the market for a transmission. It's the principle of it. I get real tired of 80% of the parts prices being geared toward the millionaire Hemi car owners. Jay Leno buys five of whatever and the company's in the black with one check and can then sit there waiting for the rest of us schmucks to save a grand a year for five years. When I took business classes in college they always said lower prices will increase sales. Guess that concept never made it into the Mopar hobby vendors' heads.

Then go buy a few 833 OD's and keep your bitching and moaning to yourself for a change.

You have no concept of how much it costs to design and build either of the new trans being made either by Mcleod or by Passon. 

The price is what the market will bear over the costs involved and  the seller is entitled to some profit.   

[375instroke]

I don't see how we can compare 30 to 50 year old transmissions, built with great economies of scale, to a newly designed, more complex, brand new product, with far less scaling.

[bull]

Then go buy a few 833 OD's and keep your bitching and moaning to yourself for a change.

You have no concept of how much it costs to design and build either of the new trans being made either by Mcleod or by Passon. 

The price is what the market will bear over the costs involved and  the seller is entitled to some profit.   

Who are you? My mom? I'll bitch if I feel like it. If you don't like the way I deliver my opinions don't read 'em.

[BrianShaughnessy]

Who are you? My mom? I'll bitch if I feel like it. If you don't like the way I deliver my opinions don't read 'em.

Unfortunately this site doesn't have an ignore feature like moparts.   

[bull]

Well, try using the one God gave you.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Well - to get this back on topic - I could not justify $5000 for a 5-speed swap...    aint no way...    I have a Tremec 3550 series trans, hydraulic clutch set up, and some floor modifications for less than $3000...

I look at it this way - if the trans is $5000...   you would still need a scattershield, clutch, yoke, u-joints...       I would calc these in because if you're putting this thing behind something (say 500-800hp) you should run a scattershield...    you will need the rest due to sheer strength issues of stock pieces...       So add another $1000 on top of that ?   So you would have a 5-speed trans behind a 600hp big block...       for $6000.00     

Don't get me wrong - I love the fact people are making things for us (consumers) but I agree with Bull that that seems a little out of reach for MOST people in the hobby -  If I was to put it behind a stock-ish 440 or 383 I would just run a factory OD trans....       

[Blown70]

Bull, not sure I get your reason for complaining about price other than to complain?  Bull (curtis?)  Dont get me wrong, but what would you even need this for.... Your 383 build is not meant from what I understand to be more than slightly better than stock?  Again, just what I gather.

To me if your going to build a motor that is going to push 800hp/800tq, YOU or whomever well more than knows whatever tranny they put behind is NOT going to be cheap... Even if you do an 727 or power glide, you will spend just about 3000 or better.  Horse power is not cheap NOR or the parts that have to handle that HP.... and dont even think you will runn 800 hp through a 8 3/4 for a long time.

Again, not trying to bust your_____ well maybe I am but just my observation.

personally, I dont know myself if I would pay that, time may tell.

Tom

[suntech]

To me if your going to build a motor that is going to push 800hp/800tq, YOU or whomever well more than knows whatever tranny they put behind is NOT going to be cheap... Even if you do an 727 or power glide, you will spend just about 3000 or better.  Horse power is not cheap NOR or the parts that have to handle that HP.... and dont even think you will runn 800 hp through a 8 3/4 for a long time.

Well putted!!

[bull]

Bull, not sure I get your reason for complaining about price other than to complain?  Bull (curtis?)  Dont get me wrong, but what would you even need this for.... Your 383 build is not meant from what I understand to be more than slightly better than stock?  Again, just what I gather.

If you look above you'll see where I said I'm not in the market for one. Anyway, I'm not going to worry about it since it has no effect on me other than I think this and other examples has a negative effect on the hobby and its attainability for the average Joe. Seems the prices just keep creeping up making it more and more a rich man's game. In a sense I also see little difference between something like this and what Premier Plastics has done. PP makes a crappy grille and screws people over but they're being made so no one else will touch the market. On the other side of the coin now we're probably going to get a $5,000 transmission (the price is still speculation) but they're being made so no one else will touch the market; mainly because it's Mopar. Bad timing for a $2,300 Chinese trans that requires mods so it will probably go away (so be it). So we'll be stuck with two aftermarket 5 or 6-speeds that run between $3,500 for Keisler and probably $5,000 or more for the Passon. Where's the middle ground we're always looking for? Where's the Mopar equivalent to the Mustang Keisler Borg-Warner $1,500 special? Don't you guys ever get fed up with paying jacked up prices for 0-2 choices while the GM/Ford guys pick their price from 10-20 different items? We either get $1,000 tail lights for a 68 or nothing. I swear sometimes Mopar guys must secretly enjoy taking it in the shorts.

[Troy]

What kind of person builds and 800 HP motor and then whines about a $5000 transmission? I'm betting not too many. As mentioned, the car that needs a stick shift capable of those levels will probably already have $3k or more in the rear end. That's what's nice about having options - you buy what you need. Passon's 4-speed OD is cheaper and fits just like stock - although some people don't like the gear spread (still better than a stock 4-speed if you drive on the highway). The Keisler (Tremec T5) will not handle that sort of power and requires some modification to the car. The factory OD 4-speed probably wouldn't make it out of the driveway with that much power. If you had a lot less power then your range of choices is pretty varied. I could see the complaints if it were the only option.

On the other hand, with 800 HP the car is probably heavily modified any way so who worries about the trans looking and fitting like stock? If you want stock buy the stock stuff.

Troy

[bull]

Does it say somewhere the Passon is rated for 800 hp? The topic that started this thread is about a $2,300 trans. Oh, nevermind. I'm done.

Right, I keep forgetting the two main rules on threads like this. 1. Smile and nod; agree no matter what. 2. Ask no questions, especially about the pricing. Just take what they give you and shut up.

[200MPH]

I think everyone here has valid points about the cost reliabity and so on. I think that Bull has some good points  especailly the quote "there has to be some middle ground some where" or something of that effect. the brand X guys always have a choice or a middle ground in how they modify their vehicles and i think we should have some too.

Not bit)(*&g or taking sides Iam in agreement with everyone I appreciate Passons hard work in getting a product for "Us" so to speak 

[Troy]

Does it say somewhere the Passon is rated for 800 hp? The topic that started this thread is about a $2,300 trans. Oh, nevermind. I'm done.

Right here:

Jamie says that they are buildt to hold 800+ hp / 800+ footpounds of torque 

The $2,300 trans will require you to cut out most of the center hump in the floor and the shifter will be in the wrong place. Ok for some people I guess - not the resto crowd. It's still just the transmission - not a whole conversion. I don't know how many people are willing to go that route just to go to shows and cruise-ins across town. I still don't think any of these conversions are geared towards the regular guy (who would survive just fine with an 833 OD or he could just keep his trusty ol' 727).

Either way, a manufacturer has a right to create products and market them to whoever they want. If customers don't buy the stuff then the manufacturer will make what they have better, make something else, lower prices, or go bankrupt. It is not a small undertaking to design and build mass production level quality parts. Considering the production numbers of Chrysler cars I'm surprised there are as many after market manufacturers as there are. What is usually part of the Mopar appeal can also be a bite in the rear.

Believe me, I have a '70 Mustang and, while repro parts are cheap, half of them don't fit or are of poor quality. The *only* saving grace is that the reproduction stuff is reasonably priced (not as heartbreaking to mess up and throw away a $13 inner fender as it is a $170 one). The NOS and original parts are still expensive. For example, I've recently seen a front fender for my car $1,499, rear spoiler for $700, and a shaker air cleaner for $1,600. Since Ford didn't destroy all their tooling in the 80s (like Chrysler) you can still buy reproduction parts made on "original tooling" but the pricing is typically 40-80% higher than the non-original reproductions. Don't forget that Ford's licensing is cheaper than Mopar. Staying on topic - I can buy 3 complete clutch setups for less than a single Mopar flywheel...

Troy

[Cool_Hand]

it's also made in china......if you hold out,passon performance is in the middle of making a 5 speed of there own.it is due out sometime in the spring.it is suposed to be a direct bolt in,and made in the usa.

Hi, gotta chime in so that consideration is as fair as possible and possibilities open up for musclecar owners, including AMC ones-  a group which I belong to. I talked with the Paul Lee of McLeod, he said they are going to try and make the new 5 speed in Placentia, but that it's too early to speculate or release details. He did say that they are deciding. He did say pricing was fixed. Don't know if 2300 is the figure though. The important point is to call him and stress, as I did, that as a potential customer, where the trans is made is crucial and that your dollar will go elsewhere if they can't make a US transmission. We as customers need to make clear, up front, where our preferences lie and what we'll spend our money on. If a manufacturer cares about you and the bottom line, they'll listen. If not, then they deserve whatever business they lose as a result. That assumes that customers are informed and want quality, over price.

Steve

[Rolling_Thunder]

Wow - you guys and your "made in USA" mentality...    can we stick to the topic at hand ?    I would refrain from labeling McLeod as a "china" transmission until the facts are discovered...       

[SFRT]

interesting. I have been very close to popping for a richmond 5 speed, maybe I will wait a little and see how the Passon one develops before i do so. the 'less modifications' recquired sound pretty good.

[oldschool]

Wow - you guys and your "made in USA" mentality...    can we stick to the topic at hand ?    I would refrain from labeling McLeod as a "china" transmission until the facts are discovered...       

whats wrong with "made in USA" mentality? just curious.....

[Rolling_Thunder]

well I was avoiding that long debate to try to keep the subject on topic -

In shot we are in a global economy - parts are made overseas due to cost. People will claim that money goes to foreign countries - however i would argue that the US gets trillions of $ in foreign investors.

I just dont think "made in usa" means the same thing anymore - back when it used to mean something but it has changed...   

[oldschool]

i agree 100%.

[Blown70]

Right, I keep forgetting the two main rules on threads like this. 1. Smile and nod; agree no matter what. 2. Ask no questions, especially about the pricing. Just take what they give you and shut up.

Naw just dont piss and moan about the prices of products that come out.  Or better yet bull start your own company and see how you do selling parts at "cut rate" prices.

Sorry Bull, gets old.  But you are welcome to your own opinioin, but dont be shocked when people get sick of the constant whining.....

Tom

[Cooter]

Well, to help 'ol Bull out here, I did a 5-speed swap for under $300 Purchase price of the trans included, in the General Lee...I can't lean on it, or I'll have cluster gears from a T-5 all over the road (440), but I still get the benefit of an overdrive on the cheap...It takes ALOT of custom fab. work to get one in the car, and you DO have to cut out some key things and reinforce a few things that you cut out...Most are after a "Bolt-in" "Plug and Play" type set up that doesn't require alot of cutting and that costs big money...I on the other hand can fab so it doesn't bother me....Everybody looked at me like I was crazy and even told me so when I was doing the swap.. but after 2 years of trouble free cruising, they all wanted to know how I did it so cheap and what was involved. I don't beat on that car, so it works for me....I know where you are comin' from Bull, as I too am a cheap Bast*d when it comes to high dollar "Next New thing".....

[suntech]

A couple of things that i am thinking about reading here, and i dont really understand. It started out with the McLeod box, that supposedly was going to be manufatured in the far east. Then people are unhappy with the quality, without even know how the quality is!!
Then this new box from Passion comes up, and manufactured in the US. Then people complain about the price, without even knowing the price!! 
It seems that some are not aware of the fact that things are getting buildt/manufactured for different purposes!!  I have never heard of anybody that has argued (without joking) about trunk space in a Ferrari!!
If you have a 400 hp motor, and dont even abuse that, you can get away with pretty much any gearcase.
If you have a 800 hp motor, and want to abuse it, well that has a pricetag!!!!

[G-man]

3000-5000 for a gearbox?

Wow I wish I lived there... last gearbox price I got was 13 000 dollars.

You all complaining about 5k for an 800hp trans?

It sure hell beats 13 000!

[suntech]

G-man where do you live?? Was it a Quaiffe box you got the 13 K quote on??

[G-man]

It was a sequential 6 speed box rated to 850 hp (sequential = not H pattern... saves a lot of time in shifting gears and loses less HP to run than a H also...)

Maybe thats why...

But to do a Dodge Viper 6 speed conversion... thats around the 10k mark also.

Australia... the exchange rate is pretty much the same. Basicaly if its 13k... including shipping it would be a 10-11k box.

i understand Bull totally... but there is something that didnt make sense....

Bull, the average Joe cant buy this box... but the average Joe definately can not afford 800 hp + dana 60 + breaks + reinforcement to make that power safe/useable either.

So the average joe has no need for this box at 5000. THe person whos  got $$$ for 800 hp and all the above neccessities to make it safe and useable definately has 5000 if not more for a gearbox.

Performance cars cost. Average guy cant have performance, average guy wont look at that box. (just being real here)  

If there is anything that is up marked stupidly... its a HEMI. Its just an engine for crying out loud, just casue u got "hemi" words on it and 'history' of hemi winning 'races' has made it cost 4 times more than a 440 yet the material used to make the motor costs the same as a 440.

THAT if anything is retarded.

[Troy]

Just to add some perspective...

The new TCI 6-speed automatic (up to 850 hp) has a list price of $6,064.35. It fits Mopar, Ford, and, of course, GM.

Troy

[200MPH]

anything new on either transmission ?

[studio57]

Just to add some perspective...

The new TCI 6-speed automatic (up to 850 hp) has a list price of $6,064.35. It fits Mopar, Ford, and, of course, GM.

Troy

that is interesting option as well, does it need body work? i try to find out more but i think no one yet has try to fit it on mopar. did send some question about it to Tci..

[ITSA426]

I'm running a Passon OD four speed in one of my cars and it was absolutely a bolt up installation.  Looks pretty stock.  I'm pleased with it, but it was a little pricey.  I'm considering another, but this bolt in five speed excites me. 

I've dealt with Kiesler before and can't say anything at all good about him.

I'll wait to see what Jamie comes out with.  If I can't afford it I just won't buy it, but I prefer to buy American and from somebody that's available to answer my questions and back up the product.

[studio57]

did get this rebly from the Passion
It is coming along.  we expect to be ready by Spring.  Price is still pending.



i think i will order the TCI 6speed  

[Charger-Bodie]

I will be running my Hemi 4 gear until the Passon unit comes out. When it does I will be getting one as soon as the cash flow allows.

[suntech]

I dont need anything before next year, so i will will wait for Passon and hear how they are, or go with a D&D or Rockland T 56

[studio57]

Rockland T 56

that company has nice vibe on the name  i have try to find out the price and part number for the TCI 6X and here are the information for TCI:

kit with the outlaw shifter with the buttons use part number 271601P28 $6616.20 .
If you would like it with the paddle shifter use part number 271601P29 $6840.49.
The converter is a 242948 $967.07 flash stall will be around 2800rpm
so prepair to have near 8K to have it on your yard 

[375instroke]

Two years later, and still nothing from Passion or McLeod that I can find.

[Troy]

Passon has started assembling their pre-orders as far as I know.

Troy

[375instroke]

"Coming soon"

[Chatt69chgr]

I've been waiting for two years for this thing to be made available.  It always seems like it is 3-6 months out.  This spring it was this summer.  This summer it was this fall.  Now it's starting to look like it's now next spring.  I'm starting to wonder if it will ever be available. 

The last big topic of discussion was parts availability.  First you would have to send the transmission back for any repair.  No parts to be available.  Then, after a firestorm of protest, parts are now going to be available.  No price list as yet.  I asked for a general ball park idea of what a simple rebuild kit might be.  That would include ball bearings, gaskets, synchro rings, etc.  I have never got an answer.  It seems that one of the big holdups was suppposedly the problem of getting ball bearings.  This got me to thinking that if I bought one of these I would want to go ahead and buy a rebuild kit (with ball bearings) so I wouldn't be in a position of having the thing out of service for a year or so waiting on another shipment of ball bearing from where ever they come from---that is, if you could get them at all.  I wanted to get an idea of what such a kit might cost.  I think the rebuild kit for the standard A833 is something like a couple of hundred dollars of so.  So I asked for a ballpark price.  $400?  $600?  $1000?  Just an idea.  But it would be nice to see what the other parts might cost too.  What is a input shaft?  Cluster gear? 

One thing that really worries me is:  If the fiscal cliff occurs at the end of this year, will that be the end of the development of this transmission?

In any case, I don't need one yet since it will be a while until my car get to that point in it's restoration so I'll continue to follow the development of this part with interest. 

[375instroke]

Passon's 18 spline OD 4-speed itself is $3000 - I can imagine their 5-speed will be around $4500 - $5500

$5000.00 For one more gear......Hmmmmmm...Lemme think on it...NOPE!

I see 18-spline 4-speed kits for $4000 in the Mopar mags.  That puts it at $500 to $1,500 for one more gear, not $4,500 to $5,500.  That's if it ever materializes.