Daytona fenders from the factory

[69bronzeT5]

I've been wondering this for a while. When they converted the R/Ts into Daytonas, what fenders were used? I know clone guys now use '70 Charger fenders but were '70 Chargers even being made or anything when the Daytonas were built?

[hemi68charger]

They were a unique fender, albeit closer to the production '70 Charger. You'll notice that the front side marker light opening on the '70 Charger isn't there on a Daytona fender.... And of course, the standard thing to do was cut a hole on the top for the tire/fender scoop and then place a screen to prevent debris from the front wheel well area. Also, the underside of the new fender wouldn't have any undercoating or paint, just primer IIRC.

[Ghoste]

Yes, they used modified 70 Charger fenders.  That's why the clone guys use them.
The race Daytonas didn't hit the track until September of 69 so the 70's were very much into production by then.
I'm not sure but I think the Daytona was originally intended to be launched on the 70 Charger but was done on a 69 body because of homologation numbers being lower for 69 than 70?  One of the wing car cognoscenti will correct me I hope.

[hemigeno]

Pretty close, Ghoste.   

The Daytona was indeed originally planned for a 1970 model year release, and the internal project paperwork initially called it the "F" Series Racecar as the successor to the "E" Series Charger500 racecar.  Glotzbach not winning the Daytona 500 (tire strategy is the proximate cause of the loss according to us Chrysler apologists), made Bob McCurry push the "new" racecar for use during the Talladega racetrack's debut at all costs.  If they waited to release the Daytona as a 1970 model, it would not have been NASCAR-legal until Riverside in early 1970.  So, it was built as a 1969 model car to make it Talladega-eligible.

I haven't seen any documents related to the homologation rules, but it's my understanding Big Bill changed the rule from 500 cars after the Daytona was announced... ostensibly to make the Superbird and other Aero-specific models an economic hardship for the manufacturers.

[charger500440]

Geno, as usual, is correct. The 500 performed well but as we know, not well enough. Glotzbach had the '69 500 almost won. Final pit stops occurred during the last 20 laps of the race, during green flag racing. Yarbrough pitting with 19 to go and Charlie with 14 to go. They were the only two drivers with a real shot to win. After pitting on lap 181, Yarbrough returned to the track nearly 11 seconds behind Charlie. They credited the win to "soft" compound tires the crew put on the left rear of the car during the last stop. Yarbrough passed the 99 on the final lap and took the checkered by one car length.

Also for that year, Dodge swept the front row in qualifying. Buddy Baker winning the pole at 188.901 mph. In the Thursday qualifying races, David Pearson won the first race but most of the strong 500's ran in race number two. Baker, who had already won the pole, only ran 2 laps and quit. Bobby Isaac's 500 took the second race.

The final straw? In the July Firecracker 400, Yarbrough and his crew out smarted the Dodge camp again. Yarbrough won, leading the most laps but how he won brought about a Nascar rule change the very next day. The night before the race, Yarbrough's crew changed the exhaust system so that it came out under the rear bumper. Most people didn't even notice it. However, when Buddy Baker was trying to draft Yarbrough late in the race he couldn't. Aided in part by the change in airflow due to the exhaust but also because Baker's hemi started to overheat, sucking in Yarbrough's exhaust. Not to mention Baker started getting sick, breathing in the Ford's fumes. One reason Nascar cars exhaust still exit out the side today.

More than anything it goes to show that small little circumstances lead to major changes. If Charlie won in February and Buddy in July, would we even have a Daytona and Superbird today? My guess is yes, they were inevitable but they may have been Fords...

Mike

[nakita7]

So...was the Daytona fender made from a modified 70 (by Chrysler?), or did they actually stamp out  Daytona fenders???

[hemigeno]

If Charlie won in February and Buddy in July, would we even have a Daytona and Superbird today? My guess is yes, they were inevitable but they may have been Fords...

Mike

Thanks for the background/history - that's really good stuff!  In the Wing Series I postcards, there's a picture of a yellow Daytona (forget the driver at the moment, but I think it was a Nichels car) with rear-exit exhaust, and I had always assumed it to be an ARCA setup.  Guess they didn't change the exhaust rule at the same time NASCAR did.

The Daytona program was definitely already in the works before the '69 Daytona 500, so the only question about it in my mind is whether it would have been a '69 or '70 model...  but that's just crazy talk about it being a Ford instead of a Dodge...   

[hemigeno]

So...was the Daytona fender made from a modified 70 (by Chrysler?), or did they actually stamp out  Daytona fenders???

Since the Daytona fenders (most of 'em anyway, as there is at least one exception) did not have the marker light recess stamped out, I would say they were purposely stamped as Daytona fenders.  That doesn't mean they did not still have to be modified by Creative Industries or another vendor.  The hole for the fender scoop was rather crudely cut, and some internal documents make mention of having to modify the lower edge of the fender to fit the valance.  It wouldn't have been cost-effective to re-tool the fender molds for the Daytona run, but just "taking out" the tooling or manufacturing step for the marker light recess would not have been very difficult.

I would say the answer to your question then, is Yes...  On both parts of it...   

[charger500440]

"but that's just crazy talk about it being a Ford instead of a Dodge..."

I agree, just stirring the pot a little. Ford people never thought they could sell the "wing" car to the public. As for the real question on this thread, Daytona fenders, I would add this: the fenders (not original to the car) on my '69 SE had the '68 side lamp opening cut out in them. However, they also had the indented opening for a '69 as well. It was just covered over. From what I understand, and I don't pretend to know for sure, Chrysler would make blanks panels when things such as side markers changed from year to year. Sort of like how the A/M panels are made today. They can always go back and stamp the opening as they wish, as it's not part of the initial stamping anyway. This way they can stamp out a pile of parts for use on the line and to be used for dealers needing the part. I would only assume they did the same thing with the Daytona and the '70 model. By early 1969, the '70 was off the drawing board and in pre-production for sure. So this does make sense. Of course, anything is possible.

Anyone who ever had a Daytona, back in the day, who wrecked it and needed a new fender would probably be able to answer this question. Was he able to purchase one? If so, this is what Chrysler was doing...

[FJMG]

Some of the literature seems to indicate the following;

2949950 - Regular 70 fender (or a 70 skin  I am not sure)
3417094 - I would guess that this is probably the same as a 70 skin that was stamped w/o a marker light hole  especially for the daytona. The internal panels (forward splash & closure, yoke bracket and the fender brace) were then welded to this by "Vendor" I would be curious to know who this vendor was.
3412650 - Daytona fender assy.

[nascarxx29]

Unrelated to the fender issue .These parts were for a daytona .But the lower valance was in sections like a superbird.Race daytona parts?


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'69 HemiCharger R/T 4-speed


    Re: Original Daytona parts on ebay
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2009, 11:47:46 AM » Quote  

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The guy that bought those valance halves called me about a week ago, and we had a long chat.  He and I came to the conclusion that they MIGHT be race Daytona parts.  More specifically, we thought that was the most likely of the possibilities due to the missing marker light recesses.  There's a very slight possibility that it was a pre-production mockup piece, since I have pictures of a prototype/mockup car which has no marker lights on its valance.  From what he was saying, this does not appear to be a reproduction part, due to how it was stamped/formed.  The weird part is that the valance is in two pieces.  He was going to look closer at the joint between the two pieces, and also take a closer look at the gauge and type of metal itself.  

I was thinking that a guy like Greg Kwiatkowski, who is (re-)building the actual #88 Daytona, could make good use of these.  Steve, the guy that bought the parts through eBay, was debating about adding the marker light recess and using them on a real Daytona.  Either way, the valance was not made to go on a regular "street" Daytona - but that does not necessarily mean it's a reproduction.

[1RareBird]

The lower valence on at least one race daytona that I worked on had the factory marker light holes.  They were filled with a small metal plate (small mig welds) and filled over with body filler.  This was on an original race daytona front end.  Also, the lower valence was cut into 3 pieces with filler pieces added to allow for the front fenders to be "pulled out" further than stock for tire clearance.