Buddy Bakers Daytona

[nascarxx29]

Franks book ? Do you mean Frank Moriaty Super cars book

[UFO]

All this talk about turning the #6 car into a show car--seeing this pic made me laugh

[C5X DAYTONA]

Just re-read the Bonneville Wing car thread.  With the growing list of events the car participated in; can we add some Bonneville history for the Canepa car?  

well shit, did any of the races listed conflict with the moon landing?  i heard from Horace Dodge myself that THIS #6 car was the first lunar rover.

Funny Didn't Baker do the 200mph lap in the 88 car the same day we landed on the moon???

[nascarxx29]

  July 20 1969 moon landing
On March 24, 1970, with Buddy Baker at the wheel, the #88 Chrysler Engineering Daytona became the first stock car to officially exceed 200 MPH on a closed course.


http://www.superbird.com/ftkc.html
additional info
Both this and the next photo show Chrysler test driver Jerry Wenk behind the wheel of what presumably is the #6 Cotton Owens '68 Dodge Charger. According to Frank Moriarty in his book, Supercars, the Story of the Dodge Charger Daytona and Plymouth SuperBird, this car eventually became the #71 slow speed test car (seen in the first two photos above). Jerry did a lot of testing in both the slow speed #71 car and the high speed Engineering Daytona prior to Glotzbach and Baker taking over the driving chores. Take note in both this and the next photo of the yarn tufts taped to the car. By driving the car on the test track and having a person in a chase vehicle photograph it, engineers were able to get some idea of how air was flowing around the car body. Crude, but wind tunnels were even less easy to come by in the late '60s than they are now. Greg Kwiatkowski's copy of this photo is courtesy of Jerry Wenk.

[C5X DAYTONA]

July 20 1969 moon landing
On March 24, 1970, with Buddy Baker at the wheel, the #88 Chrysler Engineering Daytona became the first stock car to officially exceed 200 MPH on a closed course.


http://www.superbird.com/ftkc.html
additional info
Both this and the next photo show Chrysler test driver Jerry Wenk behind the wheel of what presumably is the #6 Cotton Owens '68 Dodge Charger. According to Frank Moriarty in his book, Supercars, the Story of the Dodge Charger Daytona and Plymouth SuperBird, this car eventually became the #71 slow speed test car (seen in the first two photos above). Jerry did a lot of testing in both the slow speed #71 car and the high speed Engineering Daytona prior to Glotzbach and Baker taking over the driving chores. Take note in both this and the next photo of the yarn tufts taped to the car. By driving the car on the test track and having a person in a chase vehicle photograph it, engineers were able to get some idea of how air was flowing around the car body. Crude, but wind tunnels were even less easy to come by in the late '60s than they are now. Greg Kwiatkowski's copy of this photo is courtesy of Jerry Wenk.

July 20 1969 was the first over 200mph speed at Chelsea.  That was it..  Same day as as the moon landing (walk)

[nascarxx29]

[nascarxx29]

 
http://www.allpar.com/racing/200-mph-Daytona.html

http://www.allpar.com/corporate/chelsea-proving-grounds.html

[Ghoste]

Right, Baker drove through the 200 mph barrier in 69 but the number 6 car was not part of it yet.

[therealmoparman]

💩

[Aero426]

Just to clarify, these photos are from the 1990's Chrysler Corporation Stock Cars book by "Sport Game" .   The book is made up of photos from the old Racing Pictorial magazine archives.   The photos are wonderful, but as you can see, many captions are incorrect. 

[Aero426]

On July 20, 1969, Buddy Baker ran 203 mph in a Dodge Charger Daytona stock car — the first time anyone had beaten 200 mph on a closed course. The oval was 16 years old — and made of concrete.

http://www.allpar.com/corporate/chelsea-proving-grounds.html

So what was Baker driving on July 20, 1969?

He was driving the Engineering #88 Daytona.   Actually it was before car before it was known as the 88.   At the time, it had a combination of B5 blue and camo paint.   The Corporate Blue paint and numbers came later.

[C5HM]

On July 20, 1969, Buddy Baker ran 203 mph in a Dodge Charger Daytona stock car — the first time anyone had beaten 200 mph on a closed course. The oval was 16 years old — and made of concrete.

http://www.allpar.com/corporate/chelsea-proving-grounds.html

So what was Baker driving on July 20, 1969?

He was driving the Engineering #88 Daytona.   Actually it was before car before it was known as the 88.   At the time, it had a combination of B5 blue and camo paint.   The Corporate Blue paint and numbers came later.

As should be painfully obvious to you by now, Ryan, playing 20 questions about winged cars with Doug is like Russian Roulet with all six chamber loaded.

Doug knows his stuff.

And he hasn't even started to post all of the photos he can to back up his contentions and undermine yours.

Word up.

Your Grand Father lived it then and then moved on. Doug and the brain trust here (and I am most assuredly not in that number) still live it.  Though Brain X. France has forgotten his NASCAR history, these guys have not. By a long shot.

[nascarxx29]

Just to clarify, these photos are from the 1990's Chrysler Corporation Stock Cars book by "Sport Game" .   The book is made up of photos from the old Racing Pictorial magazine archives.   The photos are wonderful, but as you can see, many captions are incorrect. 

I found these lastnight sports game book stock cars John Craft and Pauls M Supercars

[nascarxx29]

There is some more #88 archive material outhere
Aero Warriors - #88 Racing Daytona
Note: Since this page was added to the Aero Warriors site in 1997, the genuine #88 Daytona has been located. Specific details and several photos are ...
www.aerowarriors.com/wci88.html - Cached
Aero Warriors - The <I>Real</I> #88 Chrysler Engineering Daytona!
This was briefly discussed on the Aero Warriors site in 1997 on the #88 ...
www.aerowarriors.com/88daytona.html
Aero Warriors - 200 MPH Record Run
On March 24, 1970, Buddy Baker guided the Chrysler Engineering #88 Dodge ...
www.aerowarriors.com/200mphrun.html
More results from aerowarriors.com »
Aero Warriors - Other Racing Daytona Drivers
If and when more details are located about these cars and drivers, the Aero Warriors site will be updated to include them. Ron Kesolowski #88 - Kesolowski ...
www.aerowarriors.net/odaytable.html - CachedAero Warriors - Photos From the 2004 Aero Warrior Reunion - The ...
Reunions have been held in 1988, 1994, 1999, and 2004. Photos from the 2004 meeting are showcased here. Other pic's of the 2004 event taken at host Tim ...
www.aerowarriors.net/aw04pimhof.html - Cached

Show more results from www.aerowarriors.netAero Warriors - The <I>Real</I> #88 Chrysler Engineering Daytona!
Information about this wing first appeared on the Aero Warriors site in 1996. Keep in mind that this 1996 article was written two years before the real #88 ...
www.superbird.com/88daytona.html

[nascarxx29]

Scenes from 2004 Buddy and car at Carlisle

[THE CHARGER PUNK]

are there any more pics of when the #88 was b5 blue n flat black?

[richRTSE]

...

[Aero426]

are there any more pics of when the #88 was b5 blue n flat black?

They are on the aerowarriors.com site.  Click the link below.

http://aerowarriors.com/ftkc.html

[70Sbird]

So what ended up happening here?
A page of posts, a three month lapse , then 12 pages in just over a week?
I think it has now been established that the car's history is not verifiable, or did the "Realmoparman" just give up?

I lost some good hours of my life keeping up with this thread

[Ghoste]

He's been lurking since his last post but nothing since Feb 23.  I suspect he'll log on when he gets notification of action in the thread again but I doubt he'll reply.  There is too much evidence that says the car is not what he claimed it to be when it was first sold.  I can't help but think the current sellers would like to have the fake pedigree be taken as true but it sort of looks like they will have to find a collector who isn't too much into the wingcar community to make lightning strike here.

EDIT:  Checked today (March 2) and sure enough...

Name:  therealmoparman
Posts:  109 (6.412 per day)
Position:  Junior Member
Date Registered:  February 12, 2010, 10:05:15 PM
Last Active:  Yesterday at 01:31:21 PM


I think it's a dead issue.

[tallzag]

Just to add a little more fuel to the fire here:

I just had the opportunity to get a lot of old NASCAR photos from a gentleman here locally who's Dad was very involved with NASCAR back in the day.  These are two of the photos in the collection and they are of a practice at the "early" March 23, 1969 Bristol race.  These are of Owens #6 Charger 500 with Charlie still as the driver.  Please correct me if I wrong but this REALLY looks like the show car.  It has the two screw A-Pillar caps, right side exhaust and the vent in the correct place. 

After reading all the info on the car and talking to a couple of guys (including the guy who had Cotton build the car for Chrysler) that the show car was Cotton's short track 500 and was built using the car that was crashed at Bristol on July 20th, 1969.  I have no way to back up the Bristol claim but the gentleman I talked to said Cotton built the show car out of a wrecked car and the timeline adds up.  All of this should be done with the disclaimer that the guy I talked to has a pretty hazy memory about all of this.





Also something else about the pictures, notice how far down the rear end is in the second picture?  A lot of down force!

[tan top]

  good pictures ! intresting 

thanks for sharing (TZ) 

[C5HM]

Just to add a little more fuel to the fire here:

I just had the opportunity to get a lot of old NASCAR photos from a gentleman here locally who's Dad was very involved with NASCAR back in the day.  These are two of the photos in the collection and they are of a practice at the "early" March 23, 1969 Bristol race.  These are of Owens #6 Charger 500 with Charlie still as the driver.  Please correct me if I wrong but this REALLY looks like the show car.  It has the two screw A-Pillar caps, right side exhaust and the vent in the correct place. 

After reading all the info on the car and talking to a couple of guys (including the guy who had Cotton build the car for Chrysler) that the show car was Cotton's short track 500 and was built using the car that was crashed at Bristol on July 20th, 1969.  I have no way to back up the Bristol claim but the gentleman I talked to said Cotton built the show car out of a wrecked car and the timeline adds up.  All of this should be done with the disclaimer that the guy I talked to has a pretty hazy memory about all of this.





Also something else about the pictures, notice how far down the rear end is in the second picture?  A lot of down force!

Interesting shots. Thanks for posting.

Note the round decal in the wing window. I have shots of this same Charger undergoing an engine swap. By my lights, that's the same wing window decal as the "Southern 500 winner". And it is pasted in the same location as on that car. The decal is not dispositive. But it is very persuasive. 

Of course, Cotton could have gotten the urge to move wing windows around from car to car while they were all sitting in his shop.

Mystery solved?

[70Sbird]

DING DING DING DING
I think we have the winner!!!!!

[tan top]

good spot ! that could be the answer