Buddy Bakers Daytona

[Redbird]

I'm guessing that just about 100%, including me, of the folks posting on this thread believe the Baker/Owens car at the '70-'71 car shows was and is a real Owens car that Owens had previously used in NASCAR races.

[Sicklajoie]

COG raced only 1 race in 1969 with the Daytona - 12.07.69 at Texas.

So the Dodge that Baker drove at Charlotte 10/12/69 and Rockingham 10/26/69 was not a Daytona??

yes Buddy Baker  ran the #6 Daytona  in both of those races  & came in 3rd  in both races

Well, the grandson begs to differ according to what I quoted...

[6bblgt]

Anyone have pics of the "show car" at other venues?  Cobo Hall '71?
In an effort to compare still pics to raceday pics to create/verify a timeline.
Here's a picture of the COG Buddy Baker #6 Daytona from the '69 National 500.  From AUTO RACING Jan. '70 pg 46.

10/12/69  National 500 (Charlotte Motor Speedway) -- #6 started 5th, finished 3rd, led 80 laps -- pole speed was 162.162mph

Nope!!   "Only the wrecked Daytona at College Station TX."    

[tan top]

COG raced only 1 race in 1969 with the Daytona - 12.07.69 at Texas.

So the Dodge that Baker drove at Charlotte 10/12/69 and Rockingham 10/26/69 was not a Daytona??

yes Buddy Baker  ran the #6 Daytona  in both of those races  & came in 3rd  in both races

Well, the grandson begs to differ according to what I quoted...

although just checked !  there was no Cotton Owens / Buddy Baker number 6 daytona  at the 100 mile races at Augusta  georga in 19th of october 69 &  17th of october at Savannah Georga   , both half mile paved tracks

[pettybird]

who did the bigfoot/mod top daytona pic?  he needs to shop another pic right quick.  the BS train/BS car one is my favorite.


and again, it was "imperical" evidence from back in the day when they were too young to remember.  Coincidence?  I think not.

[C5X DAYTONA]

This was taken in 73.  Another baker front end..  I was told in the 70's that the #6 Daytona in the museum was NOT the Darlington car or even a 70 season car.  Possible the 70 Texas crash car??   Just my 2 cents.  

[A383Wing]

hackett brass made the street wings  maybe they made the race ones too


    http://wwnboa.org/motw.htm

The casting of the wing is the same between street and race.    The race wing is modified with the quick removal tubular braces and of course the cable. 

Race wing also has 8 set screws in the horizontal section....I have a race wing on my car

Cable is still in it....and only 3 studs are on the under side of each vertical stabilizer.

[richRTSE]

Here is an interesting article from 2002 about the real Daytona that went 200 at Talledega. Talks about how the car that ended up in the museum as "the 200mph Daytona" wasn't the actual car that set the record. The actual car went to Don White and ended up rebodied as a '73 Charger. It also says builder Ray Nichols numbered the cars under the dash. The 200mph car was car DC-93 and the car that was repainted and sat in the museum for years was car DC-71. Good article includes memos from G.W. Porter as well...would seem there should be a car number on the Canepa car as well???

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/featuredvehicles/b_body/mopp_0201_1969_dodge_daytona/index.html

In a well-publicized test session at Talladega on March 24, 1970, Chrysler testdriver Buddy Baker took a No. 88 Dodge (similar to the car campaigned by Cotton Owens) to a 200.447 world record. While a No. 88 car has resided for years in the International Motorsports Hall of Fame at the fabled Alabama track, it has now come to light that the car that actually achieved the glory had been forlornly sitting out behind former circle track racer Don White's race shop in Keokuk, Iowa, for almost 25 years!

the actual car that went 200 mph:

The number on this car is DC-93. It has no VIN on the dash, like a stock vehicle. It has DC-93 under the dashboard, which is the number noted NASCAR builder Ray Nichols of Highland, Indiana, assigned the car when it was built. The Chrysler guys called it "093" and vintage photos show this. The car has no title because it was strictly a race car. Don's close connection with Ray, whom he drove for several times during the '60s, may have played a role as to why he ended up with this particular machine.

...and about the museum car not being the car everyone thought it was:

This was surprising news, and if the Daytona at the museum wasn't the car that first cracked the 200-mph time, where was the historic automobile? Larry explained that automotive musical chairs had occurred and the real No. 88 car went to Don White, who was actively racing on the USAC stock car circuit in the early '70s.

In fact, No. 88 was still a very good race car and, with wings still flying high on the USAC and ARCA circuits, Don received the good car and NASCAR received a similar test vehicle for their historic collection. The car NASCAR received was formerly painted red and numbered 71 like the Harry Hyde-owned, Bobby Issac-driven machine. Chrysler repainted it Corporate (Petty) Blue, lettered it, then donated it to the sanctioning body. It hadn't gone 200 mph.

Backing up this information was an inter-company correspondence memo written by G.W. Porter and dated July 31, 1970, which was uncovered by Tim Wellborn (director of the Talladega Museum) in 1997. Key parts of this memo include the following: "In May, we received a request from NASCAR relative to the possible donation of the subject car to NASCAR for their speed museum.... Contingent upon your approval, we will take our old No. 71 car, DC-74, paint it to look like the Engineering car No. 88 car, which we used in breaking the 200-mph speed record, and present it to NASCAR. This No. 71 car has outlived its usefulness and would be scrapped in the event we weren't to use it for this purpose."

[richRTSE]

and here is a good picture of a NASCAR Daytona wing with the tubular braces...

[superbirdtom]

WOW!

[C5X DAYTONA]

Here is an interesting article from 2002 about the real Daytona that went 200 at Talledega. Talks about how the car that ended up in the museum as "the 200mph Daytona" wasn't the actual car that set the record. The actual car went to Don White and ended up rebodied as a '73 Charger. It also says builder Ray Nichols numbered the cars under the dash. The 200mph car was car DC-93 and the car that was repainted and sat in the museum for years was car DC-71. Good article includes memos from G.W. Porter as well...would seem there should be a car number on the Canepa car as well???

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/featuredvehicles/b_body/mopp_0201_1969_dodge_daytona/index.html

In a well-publicized test session at Talladega on March 24, 1970, Chrysler testdriver Buddy Baker took a No. 88 Dodge (similar to the car campaigned by Cotton Owens) to a 200.447 world record. While a No. 88 car has resided for years in the International Motorsports Hall of Fame at the fabled Alabama track, it has now come to light that the car that actually achieved the glory had been forlornly sitting out behind former circle track racer Don White's race shop in Keokuk, Iowa, for almost 25 years!

the actual car that went 200 mph:

The number on this car is DC-93. It has no VIN on the dash, like a stock vehicle. It has DC-93 under the dashboard, which is the number noted NASCAR builder Ray Nichols of Highland, Indiana, assigned the car when it was built. The Chrysler guys called it "093" and vintage photos show this. The car has no title because it was strictly a race car. Don's close connection with Ray, whom he drove for several times during the '60s, may have played a role as to why he ended up with this particular machine.

...and about the museum car not being the car everyone thought it was:

This was surprising news, and if the Daytona at the museum wasn't the car that first cracked the 200-mph time, where was the historic automobile? Larry explained that automotive musical chairs had occurred and the real No. 88 car went to Don White, who was actively racing on the USAC stock car circuit in the early '70s.

In fact, No. 88 was still a very good race car and, with wings still flying high on the USAC and ARCA circuits, Don received the good car and NASCAR received a similar test vehicle for their historic collection. The car NASCAR received was formerly painted red and numbered 71 like the Harry Hyde-owned, Bobby Issac-driven machine. Chrysler repainted it Corporate (Petty) Blue, lettered it, then donated it to the sanctioning body. It hadn't gone 200 mph.

Backing up this information was an inter-company correspondence memo written by G.W. Porter and dated July 31, 1970, which was uncovered by Tim Wellborn (director of the Talladega Museum) in 1997. Key parts of this memo include the following: "In May, we received a request from NASCAR relative to the possible donation of the subject car to NASCAR for their speed museum.... Contingent upon your approval, we will take our old No. 71 car, DC-74, paint it to look like the Engineering car No. 88 car, which we used in breaking the 200-mph speed record, and present it to NASCAR. This No. 71 car has outlived its usefulness and would be scrapped in the event we weren't to use it for this purpose."

I new Bob McCurry personally and he told me the same thing.  The 88 car in the museum was the #71 test mule.  He also said that it was a Baker #6  69 Charger 500 Before that.  He said that when they were at the 69 Daytona 500 there was a Legal issue with the car.  After the race that car went back to Chrysler and became the Test Mule..   Then when NASCAR wanted a car for the new Museum they took the #71 and made it into a (Regular Daytona) and donated it to what we see there today...  

[C5X DAYTONA]

Just to clarify - because I know I need to - by HIS car I meant one that looked like BAKER's car. Baker was #1 Chrysler driver, and they would want to display his car, not Goldsmith's or Glotzbach. At least not in 69-70.

Ray Nichels and Charlie would probably disagree with you on that.

So would Bob McCurry,   He said Baker drove him NUTS.  Baker broke EVERYTHING McCurry said,  Just way to rough.   And that was from the horses mouth too.   McCurry's mouth..

[tan top]

 good infomation ! &  picture of that #6 front end sheet metal  (C5X Daytona)
  thanks for sharing 

[Aero426]

...

[Aero426]

I new Bob McCurry personally and he told me the same thing.  The 88 car in the museum was the #71 test mule.  He also said that it was a Baker #6  69 Charger 500 Before that.  He said that when they were at the 69 Daytona 500 there was a Legal issue with the car.  After the race that car went back to Chrysler and became the Test Mule..   Then when NASCAR wanted a car for the new Museum they took the #71 and made it into a (Regular Daytona) and donated it to what we see there today...  

This is an excellent example of a credible person (McCurry) making an easy mistake in recalling what actually happened.   He was close - but the date, #6 and Daytona 500 details are completely wrong.

The car in question was built as the new 1968 1/2 series race car (2" x 2" car) for the Firecracker 400 at Daytona.  It only ran only ONE race and that was as a brand new #71 Isaac car.   NASCAR caught Chrysler with what they were doing.  They had to raise the car for the race, and were told not to bring it back.  It was sent to the Proving Grounds for future test work and became the #71 Daytona with the hand made nose and small wing.   Then when Chrysler was asked by NASCAR to donate the 200 mph #88, they painted the #71 (which was nearing the end of it's useful life) as the #88 and sent it.  Rathgeb, Wallace, Pointer, et al have confirmed all this.  This is another situation where I am sure nobody thought 40 years on, the switcheroo of the cars would be a topic of discussion.

[nascarxx29]

Switcheroo document with the #88 car

http://aerowarriors.com/gifs/cda_073170.gif

http://aerowarriors.com/cda.html

[maxwellwedge]

http://aerowarriors.com/gifs/cda_073170.gif

[Ghoste]

Another question I would put forth since Dr. Craft's book was misquoted earlier would be this; on page 62 of his well researched book "Chrysler Plymouth and Dodge Stock Cars", it shows a n number 6 Daytona with the following caption [Buddy Baker drove a Daytona for Cotton Owens during the aerowars.  He won the Southern 500 in 1970 in a day-glo #6 car justlike this one.  This particular Daytona is on display at the Joe Weatherly Museum in Darlington.

Now why would a book written in 1997 not only NOT claim that the Darlington display car was the same one that won the Southern 500 but in fact, make a point of stating that the display car was one LIKE the car that won?  Surely if it were true they would have known it back then?  Why did this pedigree only come to light when the car was offered for sale?

[C5X DAYTONA]

I new Bob McCurry personally and he told me the same thing.  The 88 car in the museum was the #71 test mule.  He also said that it was a Baker #6  69 Charger 500 Before that.  He said that when they were at the 69 Daytona 500 there was a Legal issue with the car.  After the race that car went back to Chrysler and became the Test Mule..   Then when NASCAR wanted a car for the new Museum they took the #71 and made it into a (Regular Daytona) and donated it to what we see there today...   

This is an excellent example of a credible person (McCurry) making an easy mistake in recalling what actually happened.   He was close - but the date, #6 and Daytona 500 details are completely wrong.

The car in question was built as the new 1968 1/2 series race car (2" x 2" car) for the Firecracker 400 at Daytona.  It only ran only ONE race and that was as a brand new #71 Isaac car.   NASCAR caught Chrysler with what they were doing.  They had to raise the car for the race, and were told not to bring it back.  It was sent to the Proving Grounds for future test work and became the #71 Daytona with the hand made nose and small wing.   Then when Chrysler was asked by NASCAR to donate the 200 mph #88, they painted the #71 (which was nearing the end of it's useful life) as the #88 and sent it.  Rathgeb, Wallace, Pointer, et al have confirmed all this.  This is another situation where I am sure nobody thought 40 years on, the switcheroo of the cars would be a topic of discussion.

OOPS.    Not the Baker #6 it was the Charlie Glotzbach #6.  MY bad on that.  I will post a pic of the #6 Charger being converted as we all have seen this picture before..  It was a #6 68 Charger.  Not a #71 Car.  The Mule started out as a 68 Charger.  Still has the 68 1/4s and glass in it.. 

[C5X DAYTONA]

This IS the Mule!!!!!   Show me a #71 68 Dodge Charger at the prooving grounds..  This is a Picture and proof of what Bob McCurry said..    And Oh my.  Look at that.  The picture was taken at Chrysler's prooving grounds..      Glotchback #6 was turned into Mule #71 then converted in to #88 museum car.   Bob McCurry might of had the race and name wrong but he showed me this pic in Franks book and said this was the #71 Mule and the same #88 car they converted for the museum..  Is he still wrong??   A friend and I went over the 88 car as most of us have and well it is a 68 Charger..    No hard feelings.  But if I'm wrong you all can smack me and delete my message...

[Aero426]

There were two 1968 Chargers regularly at the proving grounds during this time.    The #6 1968 Charger at the proving grounds was chassis 046 which became the first Charger 500.   That is where development on that car stopped.    It ultimately was used as a baseline against the #88 Daytona as it developed.   It is not known what happened to this car.

The second 1968 Charger, DC-74 was the illegal Isaac 2 x 2 1968 Charger from the Firecracker 400.  That car became the first Daytona with the home built built nose and wing.    It did the initial low speed testing with the Daytona package.    This car is the fake #88 in the Talladega museum.

All of this is well documented.    I'll repeat...  a guy like McCurry wasn't there at the PG every day.   He absolutely had the gist of the story correct, but not the details.

[C5X DAYTONA]

There were two 1968 Chargers regularly at the proving grounds during this time.    The #6 1968 Charger at the proving grounds was chassis 046 which became the first Charger 500.   That is where development on that car stopped.    It ultimately was used as a baseline against the #88 Daytona as it developed.   It is not known what happened to this car.

The second 1968 Charger, DC-74 was the illegal Isaac 2 x 2 1968 Charger that became the first Daytona with the home built built nose and wing.    It did the initial low speed testing with the Daytona package.    This car is the fake #88 in the Talladega museum.

All of this is well documented.    I'll repeat...  a guy like McCurry wasn't there at the PG every day.   He absolutely had the gist of the story correct, but not the details.

My face hurts and I am out of ammo.   Now where is McCurry?  I have to tell him something?  LOL    And we wonder how the #6 Daytona story is getting re-written....  HMMM

[Aero426]

I would have paid money for the first hand experience you had with meeting him.

[6bblgt]

Just re-read the Bonneville Wing car thread.  With the growing list of events the car participated in; can we add some Bonneville history for the Canepa car?  

[pettybird]

Just re-read the Bonneville Wing car thread.  With the growing list of events the car participated in; can we add some Bonneville history for the Canepa car?  

well shit, did any of the races listed conflict with the moon landing?  i heard from Horace Dodge myself that THIS #6 car was the first lunar rover.