Buddy Bakers Daytona

[Aero426]

This is something kind of interesting.    The museum car has a front suspension with the older design strut rods.   These extend from the front lower control arm to the K-frame.   You can see the museum car has the rubber washer type strut bushings.    

The black and white photo is from the Chrysler press release, "Cotton Owens Builds a Daytona" which was also in the 1970 World 600 program.    If you look on either side of the K frame, you can see this car has the latest and greatest 1970 style ball joint type strut rods with the grease fitting in them.    I don't make any representions either way, just that the Daytona under construction has some updated spec equipment.




Photo John Craft collection

[Aero426]

Of the other known race cars from the period that still survive today, how many of them have a confirmed winning history? Just curious. And i'm not talking about all of the surviving race cars but rather the ones from this same time frame. IE Superbirds, Daytona's, C500's, Talladega's, and Cyclone Spoiler II"s?

The Petty Superbirds: evidence points that two that exist today were built up in the mid-70's.  The original cars were sold off or sent other places for 1971.

The Ramo Stott Superbird won in ARCA and USAC. It had two top 10's in GN racing as well.  It stayed intact as a Superbird with the original driver until 1988.   It's history is bullet proof.

The K & K Daytona is one of several Daytonas the team had.   So it's tough to pinpoint if it won at Texas in '69.   But it is known as an actual K & K team car.

Steve Atwell's #22 Allison Daytona, I don't know.

The restored #22 Allison Daytona, the car was restored as an Allison car by "paint on the roll bars", so who knows?

There are no Charger 500 race cars that exist in that form.

There are no original Spoiler II cars in that form.   The Woods #21 1971 Cyclone WAS a Spoiler II in it's last life.    The #21 Spoiler II that John Craft built in the 90's is an accurate homage to the Woods car, but Cale never farted in the seat.

The Petty Talladega that exists has a questionable pedigree.  Ford records state all four cars  he had that season were destroyed or scrapped at the end of the season
.
The #98 Benny Parsons Talladega won as an ARCA car in 1968.  It has a wonderful history with Parsons and Wendell Scott, but it never raced with Talladega sheet metal.

The Pearson Talladega that exists I cannot say one way or the other.

There is a Lee Roy Yarbrough Junior Johnson car under restoration, but again, I can't say.  

With few exceptions, these cars were used up, recycled and spit out when their useful life was done.   If they were not scrapped, many of those remaining simply came to earth.

[therealmoparman]

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[Redbird]

I'm really hoping someone can fill in the complete history of the Owens/Baker car(s). It's one of my favorite cars from the era. I always liked the paint scheme. I really liked the front fenders. I also really liked the combination of Cotton Owens and Buddy Baker. If there were multiple cars to make the race dates, short track car, show car-so be it. If there was one that's fine too. Someone should be able to make a concise record of the race dates and car show dates and show what was there to make it add up. There is a lot of information out there.

[moparstuart]

 

[richRTSE]

Look at these pics..

One on the track has the little COG sticker in the vent window.

One with Baker doesn't even appear to have a vent window.

Are they the same car?

Thats a good question, any idea when the "on track" photo was taken? It's hard to see in the pictures, but is that what the small round decal says: "Cotton Owens Garage"?

[Troy]

Ok, so if everyone agrees there were multiple race chassis and no one can say which chassis participated in which race then how can the (extensive) race history of this particular car be confirmed? That seems to be the basis of the argument from my perspective. It seems Cotton made only one car for the show circuit (not a show car - made from a race chassis) and that car is the one that went to the museum and was later removed by Cotton. That car couldn't be on the race track and the show circuit at the same time during the 70 season (or at least most of it). The show pictures are obviously from the (a?) 1970 model year show so if no other cars were shown then this one had to be it. There doesn't seem to be any documented history that this car went 200 mph before anyone else - or even at all.

Remember that many people still think drivers/teams only have one car but, in reality, the car itself is just one of many pieces. If you look at it as the car being representative of the team then all the team's accomplishments could be attributed to that car - or displayed with the car. This makes sense on a show circuit.

Troy

[Aero426]

C5HM can tell you quite a bit about the Petty car and the Foyt Torino to the left of it.

[hemi68charger]

...

Remember that many people still think drivers/teams only have one car but, in reality, the car itself is just one of many pieces....
Troy

So,, Troy,,, are you telling me that this Daytona in question ISN'T numbers-matching !!!!!!!     

Troy

[Aero426]

Remember that many people still think drivers/teams only have one car but, in reality, the car itself is just one of many pieces. If you look at it as the car being representative of the team then all the team's accomplishments could be attributed to that car - or displayed with the car. This makes sense on a show circuit.

Troy

This has happened before, and for various reasons.   The #88 Daytona in the Talladega museum was donated by Chrysler as "the real car", when in reality it was another car painted up like the record setting car.  The smoking gun memo explaining what happened still exists.   The real car still had some value to Chrysler as a working race car, and so they donated a car that was "representative"  of the achievement.  I don't think anyone at Chrysler ever thought it would be a topic of interest 40 years later.    

When I walked past the Baker car in 1986 at the Darlington museum, if you had told me it was the Southern 500 winner, I'd have accepted that at face value.   

[tan top]

This is something kind of interesting.    The museum car has a front suspension with the older design strut rods.   These extend from the front lower control arm to the K-frame.   You can see the museum car has the rubber washer type strut bushings.    

The black and white photo is from the Chrysler press release, "Cotton Owens Builds a Daytona" which was also in the 1970 World 600 program.    If you look on either side of the K frame, you can see this car has the latest and greatest 1970 style ball joint type strut rods with the grease fitting in them.    I don't make any representions either way, just that the Daytona under construction has some updated spec equipment.




Photo John Craft collection
rut rods

been having a think ,  understanding that when the #6 had a bad wreck ! it was retired to a show only car !! well sort of makes sence that there are old strut rods & stuff !! on this  car now !!  as i'm thinking ,  Cottons mob are not going to use the new type strut rods & stuff , on #6 no its to become a show car show car !  as it don't matter as long as its complete , just makes sence to use up all the older superseded suspension stuff

[6bblgt]

If the car in question became "show only", it became this prior to February '70.  Therefore NO '70 race history.

If there was only ONE "show car", then the car in Chicago in 1970 is the same car that was in Chicago in 1971.

You can't have both - ONE show car with 1970 race history cannot exist.  One of these stated FACTS is WRONG.

[therealmoparman]

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[Aero426]

The Chicago car and the car as it looked from the museum look different.

If only a show car, why would it's appearance have changed? You can't replace those fender decals without a repaint. Why would it need repainting?

There is this little thing called a heat gun.   It looks kind of like a hair dryer.  Makes decals come off real easy.    Nobody ever said the car didn't get some freshening before it finally went over to Darlington.  

Also, I do not believe that style of "GOODYEAR" spelled out decal was available in 1970.   That style of decal could have been applied during a quick clean-up later on.

One thing that is common to those two photos, is that they seem to be the only Owens cars with two screws in the A-post mouldings.    If you check your race car photos taken at the track, you will see that they have four screws holding them on.  

[6bblgt]

You are the one that stated only ONE "show car", I am only asking questions.  You are stating un-wavering FACTS with no proof other than Cotton Owens says so.

You say the dates are WRONG, where is your proof?

[6bblgt]

Here is the much "ballyhooed" first built FM3 - "panther pink" 1970 Challenger R/T 440+6 convertible that debuted at the 1970 Chicago new car show.  It has a scheduled production date of 2/11/70.  Do you still question the pics are from the February 21 - March 1, 1970 Chicago Auto Show?  Since you have added no additional information on your perception of this car's history, can you give your current thoughts?

[Troy]

So you're saying the Chicago car isn't the one that went into the museum (ie two "show cars")? I thought Cotton only made one?

Why can't you replace decals without painting the car? Sponsors changed relatively often correct? Surely the geniuses (I mean that in a good way) working on race teams back then knew how to loosen glue without damaging paint? I can't imagine a scenario where repainting an entire car and reapplying ALL the decals would be preferable to A) removing old decals B) painting over the old decals C) scraping/sanding off old decals and painting just the fenders (and wing).

Why would anyone want the car to be displayed differently than how it looked when it became famous?

Troy

[therealmoparman]

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[therealmoparman]

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[therealmoparman]

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[6bblgt]

It is pure speculation to say which car was displayed at Chicago.

Also, where do you get the Daytona pic and how can you verify the date?

But most importantly, let's just look at the Southern 500 winner picture. See how it looks?

It didn't look like that after it was put back together after Charlotte.

Maybe they put all new sheetmetal on it. Ya ever think of that? They re-sheeted it. Painted it. Put new wheels on it. New decals. Carpet. Windows. Armor All. A cup holder. Whatever the heck they wanted.

They retired the Southern 500 winner. Made it into a car for show, not race.

FYI - "Armor All" wasn't invented yet.    Just another piece of your comments with no basis in reality.  

ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmorAll

[Ghoste]

So this race history from your post in another thread is no longer being claimed as true?
Because if there was only one wing car, there is still the matter of it being in Chicago and Daytona at about the same time.


Here is the race history of the car:

http://www.canepacollection.com/detail-1969-dodge-charger-daytona-5111490.html

Race History
Cotton Owens Dodge Charger Daytona driven by Buddy Baker
Daytona, qualified 2nd, — DNF
Rockingham — DNF
Atlanta — DNF
Alabama 500, led for 101 laps, first race lap at over 200 MPH — DNF
Firecracker 400 — 2nd
Atlanta — 4th
Michigan — 5th
Darlington Southern 500 — 1st
Charlotte — DNF

[tan top]

 not trying to confuse anything   
     out of curiosity  !!       just  taken these screen shots of  the 1970 darlington race  ,  

[tan top]

 

[pettybird]

well, how about that--car being uncovered, NO fender decals.  car ready on pit lane, FULL decals.