opinion on suspension setup...

[LeadfootBob]

All right, I'm going crazy here. Tripped over a bit of cash (sold a chevy motor/transmission, actually, talk about exchanging gold for sh*t  ) and figured I'd do the charger just right.
I've been sitting here for three days straight after work, puzzling with summit, mancini, XV, jegs etc. while running this search engine until it glowed. The ol' noggin is hurting a bit now so I'm just going to ask instead.


The subject in question is a '70 Charger 500 that came with a 318/904, drums on all corners, power nothing and no sway bars. Car was gutted when bought so no qualms about the horrors to follow.

Drivetrain will be a 440/727 with an 8.75" suregrip (742 clutch!). With God, Vishnu and Allah willing the turbocharged mill should be pushing 500-550 at the crank.
The body will be receiving home built frame connectors, 8-point rollbar and a home built rad support.

The purpose of this car? Well, this is where things become problematic. I'd like some sort of street/strip setup that will hook decently in the quarter yet retain the ability to run the twisties without fearing for my life. Comfort is not an issue.

I've sourced parts thusly:
Firm Feel tubular UCA's
.960 torsion bars
Addco 595 sway bar front, Addco 675 out back. 1 1/8" and 7/8" that is
Edelbrock IAS shocks all round
Super stock 3800 pound leafies
Wilwood WIL140-2721B brakes, stock drums in the rear
Mancini's 1.125" master cylinder
Fresh bushings everywhere.

Any input on this pile of stuff would be greatly appreciated. This is a starter pack, so to speak, and it will certainly be tweaked as I go. If anything I'm considering other leaf springs ATM but not sure which to choose. For every person saying they SS springs are crap for anything but strip action there's three going "I've been running them on the street for xx years, works great..." 

[HPP]

I've sourced parts thusly:
Firm Feel tubular UCA's

Tubular arms are not bad, but not necessary. Kinda spendy for what you get and you can get additional caster for your applciation with offset bsuhings instead, $60 compared to $300+ .

.960 torsion bars

Not a bad choice for dual purpose, especially since you going with the big engine up front. Some may recommend .92 hemi bars instead, but honestly, Hemi cars are significantly underspring by modern standards so go with .96.

Addco 595 sway bar front, Addco 675 out back. 1 1/8" and 7/8" that is

1 1/8 is good up front. I would skip the rear bar though if your truly going with SS springs. Maybe keep it if you go with XHD style springs. Reason being if you put too much wheel rate in the back, you have a car that is very tail happy in corners.

Edelbrock IAS shocks all round

I hear lots of great things about these. No first hand experience, but they seem like a good choice.

Super stock 3800 pound leafies

Biggest issue with SS springs are the extra camber (arch) they provide. Great for drag racing, lousy for handling. Maybe a lowering block could get you the best of both worlds. Another option could be oval track springs in a 1" arch. They provide a low ride height, consist of fewer, thicker leaves than stock, and have a short front segment like SS springs. They also could use the rear sway bar you are considering to keep things balanced.

Wilwood WIL140-2721B brakes, stock drums in the rear
Mancini's 1.125" master cylinder

Wilwoods are the best way to lighten up the brake system. I'm unfamiliar with that package, but a number of Wilwood kits use smaller rotors than stock mopar stuff. Great for drag racing, okay for street, bad for road racing. For a more budget build, stock 11.75 rotors with Wilwood calipers provide decent stopping leverage with the large rotors, lightweight with the Wilwood calipers, but will weigh in a few pouinds more than a comparble Wilwood set up.

Fresh bushings everywhere.

The foundation of it all. Without good bushings, and ball joints, it all means nothing.

Don't forget alignment. The OEM specs were designed for skinny, hard, bias ply tires. Get a more modern, radial friendly alignment (asuming your using radials) that allows you to use the range the tires can accept. This alone can make a big difference in the road feel of a car without a lot of wiz-bang suspension changes. Assuming power steering, as much positive caster you can get up to around 5*, 0 to -.5* negative camber, and 1/16 total toe in.

[Big Sugar]

Some Good ideas there no question,
Most importantly don't forget to tie in your Chassis Add the Front and Rear Torque boxes if your planning 400+ HP  Auto rust tech has a good Chassis stiffening kit for B Bodies as does US Cartool, You can get more info on chassis siffening at XV Motorsports as well. Street Strip combo ? You could use Calvert Racing Monoleaf in the rear with a set of Spring Sliders in place of the Shackels, The rear leafs shave a good amount of weight off the rear as opposed to running a new set of SS Springs, Again if your going the SS rear leaf spring route you could get away with no rear sway bar but street driving will be harsh, I'd opt for a compromising setup with adjustability and go Calverts/Caltracks setup that way you've got the best of street/Strip. and definatly run front and Rear swaybars.
As for Shocks you pretty much get what you pay for, again depending on what your looking for Drag and street are two different worlds when it comes to shock valving but if you spend most of your time driving street, then it makes sence to set up for everyday driving and go with somthing thats not going to rattle your fillings loose, new suspension parts alone in a good quality Rubber by Moog are gonna make a marked improvement. Dont forget to get a real alignment as well nevermind the fast service shops find and old school shop that knows how to set up a chassis without a computer .

Check (http://www.afcoracing.com/tech_pages/leaf.shtml) for a good writeup on rear leaf suspension setup.
Hotchkis has a nice all around street setup package now, a little pricey but I'll bet it's worth every penny as it's been engineered by a true performance suspension company. As well as it adds a bit of Bling to the undercarrage.


Good Luck

Ron

[b5blue]

Reinforce the lower control arms with plates from Mancini, I agree you don't need the upper control arms in tube...you will have to relocate the stop for it, a pain in the a--. Steering coupler rebuild, idler arm, tools for removing and installing ball-joints and bushings all money better spent on that than tube uppers. Axle shaft bearings and seals (member "partsallot" has NOS Mopar sets that are very nice) Generally your on track well... Good Luck (I've got a 70 318 car with a 440 now)

[motorcitydak]

You may also want to consider just getting custom made leaf springs. I just got a pair of em from Alcan Spring for the back of my Hemi 4x4 '96 Dakota. It is for sure a 1 of a kind that and that did not phase those guys in the least. I called em up and had a brand new completely custom pair of way beefy springs at my door 4 weeks later. They cost me $540 for the pair shipped to my door. Those guys engineer every spring they make to be taylored to your exact specs. I told em what I wanted to put them in and how much lift I wanted. It is as simple as that. I do not know for sure if Alcan does car springs (I am sure they could), but I know there has to be companies out there that do. 

[Mike DC]

   
Another vote to rethink the SS leaf springs. 


It bears noting that XV Motorsports did all that research on the suspension, and decided to run a slighty SOFTER set than the stock 440/426 springs.

If you do soften the leafs down from the SS ones then you will probably wanna add a small rear swaybar.

[suntech]

It bears noting that XV Motorsports did all that research on the suspension, and decided to run a slighty SOFTER set than the stock 440/426 springs.

What about going with a complete level I  XV setup? Then you have a combination of parts that works well together !

[bull]

What have you got for a steering box? Unless you've already dealt with that I'd suggest you order a Stage 2 box from Firm Feel while you're on the phone with them regarding tubular UCAs.

[LeadfootBob]

Whoa, good (and fast) info there, guys! I like this place already 

A couple of things I'd like to clear up:
1: the tube UCA's are already installed. The stock ones were, without any exaggeration, shot to hell. As in "Upper ball joints welded to UCA"... Imagine that 
I spent a weeking phoning around without finding a single pair for sale on this side of the puddle, then I caved and mailed FFI.
2: this  car has manual steering, and I must say I'm a bit tempted by the rebuild kit that FFI sells. The box feels all right, but I'd rather spend the 170 bucks now than trying to hunt down the gears later or have something break out in the boonies... Or at speed
3: examining the kit I picked out on Wilwoods own home page (mancini is very vague on rotor sizing, all it says is "contains 10.75 or 11.75 rotors". Guess I was a bit optimistic...) it does appear to have the smaller rotor. I'd love to go with the AR engineering kit, the problem is that I can't seem to find late model A-body knuckles around here.

The oval track springs sound intriguing, no messing around with hangers and summit has them with 1" or 0 arch.
Caltracs on the stock 318 springs, even worth considering?
What's your opinion on the QA1 AL and R series shocks? Some flexibility would be nice, adjustable shocks would help immensely.
Would the torque boxes really make a big difference with subframe connectors and a cage (attached to them, of course)?

[HPP]

3: examining the kit I picked out on Wilwoods own home page (mancini is very vague on rotor sizing, all it says is "contains 10.75 or 11.75 rotors". Guess I was a bit optimistic...) it does appear to have the smaller rotor. I'd love to go with the AR engineering kit, the problem is that I can't seem to find late model A-body knuckles around here.

Depends on which kit you go with. The ARE Viper kit uses drum spindles. Their Wilwood kit does require disc spindles, but lacking any A body spindles, you can also use late B or FJM spindles as well. There has been an ongoing controversy with them that I'll not dredge up unless requested, but suffice it to say everyone has come around and says they are fine to use.

The oval track springs sound intriguing, no messing around with hangers and summit has them with 1" or 0 arch.
Caltracs on the stock 318 springs, even worth considering?

Actually, you need the 2" longer front SS hangers to use oval track springs. Why they may be a good compromise is because they have the very short firm front segment like an SS springs, but have a considerably softer rate, 120# vs 160-175# for an SS pack. FWIW, the OEM XHD style is around 140#. Worn out 318 springs may be lucky to even break in to the 90# range.

Cal-tracs on the OEM springs is certainly a option for drag racing and street use. However, since the action of a cal-trac is to duplicate that of the SS spring, they may not necessarily be any faster but may be more comfortable than an SS spring pack.
 

What's your opinion on the QA1 AL and R series shocks? Some flexibility would be nice, adjustable shocks would help immensely.
Would the torque boxes really make a big difference with subframe connectors and a cage (attached to them, of course)?

QA1 are nice dual purpose shocks and I've heard a lot of feedback that is positive about them. Big advantage of adjustables over fixed rate is the ability to really soften them up for drag strip use then put them back on firm for the drive home.

Not sure about the torque box/subframe/rollbar connection as I've never used them together.I don't suppose it would hurt. Torque boxes are light enough they don't add a lot of weight for the increase in rigidity they provide. However, a better option, if your really hard core about it, is to stitch weld all the uni-body seams to tie the whole structure together more solidly. While very labor intensive, the results are huge. I've seen testing that says this alone can increase torsional rigidity up to 65% and is a big enough improvement that at least one sanctioning body that I'm aware has outlawed it in their stock classes.

I'll also second boxing the lower control arm. Adding larger than stock sway bars impart more twisting on the lower control arm, which is simply two steel stampings. Tying them together provides more positive action from the sway bar.

I'd actually have to agree with suntech, why not go the whole XV level 1 route? At $2500 it is a bargain. You could spend almost that much just sourcing all the parts you have outlined and not get nearly as much shock absorber as they are providing.

[Mike DC]

I would vote to listen to XV particularly when it comes to the stiffening of the chassis.  Nobody else actually straps these cars onto surface plate shaker rigs and tests chassis stuff out like they did.

Frame connectors + factory torque boxes + lower rad suport brace + shock tower-to-firewall braces.  The whole thing is a pretty small weight gain and it incurs very little side effects otherwise.  I think the worst thing it causes is the interference with the stock radiator.

[Rolling_Thunder]

I think the worst thing it causes is the interference with the stock radiator.

If you include the 1" blocks they include with their lower radiator support kit then a stock radiator will fit - I did this to mine.

[Big Sugar]

Hold off on the XV purchaces for the moment , their are apparantly some priceing changes on the way.




Ron

[Rolling_Thunder]

Hold off on the XV purchaces for the moment , their are apparantly some priceing changes on the way.
Ron

higher or lower ?   hahaha

[HPP]

Complete XV level 1 set up for less than retail...http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,63600.0.html

[suntech]

There you go
Everything you need for 2200