throttle sticking wide open on newer toyotas

[rt green]

just heard this. a highway patrol officer and family was killed from this. he had some time. wouldnt he know better to shut it off, or put it in nutral and let it blow?  he saw an intersection coming up told his family to hold on and pray. guess he didnt learn to much from cop driving school.  what a shame

[Ghoste]

Hard to say without more details.  It's easy to armchair analyze it but things can happen pretty quickly in an emergency.

[rt green]

yeh, i know. i;ve had a throttle stck in a drag race and i just shut it off. maybe i was paying more attention. just pissed his whole family and him died

[471_Magnum]

It wasn't a Toyota. It was a Lexus. Happened several weeks ago.

Suspicion is that the all-weather floor mat got caught on the throttle.

Car had keyless start. Driver apparently could not figure out how to shut it off (hold the button for 3 seconds), and didn't have the sense to put it into neutral.

Ran off the road doing 115 with predictable outcome.

It has triggered a voluntary recall.

[472 R/T SE]

Last I knew Toyota builds & owns Lexus'.

Turning the motor off kills the power brakes & steering.  They recommend putting the car in neutral.
Toyota says nothing's wrong with their cars and that it's the floor mats.  Several owners' who've had problems beg to differ.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/RunawayToyotas/sudden-acceleration-toyota-cars-owners-rebel-accidents/story?id=8980479

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/11/abc-news-questions-toyotas-floormat-recall.html

[Silver R/T]

Hard to say without more details.  It's easy to armchair analyze it but things can happen pretty quickly in an emergency.

ya, when you're in accident stuff happens in blink of an eye, you can't even say your last prayer.

[captnsim]

I'm curious how you could stop a car under full acceleration by using the brake with ABS?

[bull]

This is really odd because I thought Toyotas/Lexuses were perfect.

Also, how do they know the guy told his family to hold on and pray?

And, although "they" recommend putting the trans in neutral if this happens I have to say shutting the engine off would be a close second. I'd rather attempt that than hitting an intersection at full throttle.

[472 R/T SE]

Also, how do they know the guy told his family to hold on and pray?

The 911 tape of his son in law in the back seat giving play by play right before they hit the intersection.

EDIT:  It was his brother in law.  Here's the 911 excerpt.

http://www.momlogic.com/2009/09/911_call_released_in_stuck_accelerator_crash.php

[bull]

Wow. After hearing that call I have to say that driver was just plain out of his mind. If you've got time to complete a 48-second 911 call I think you could probably come up with a safer way to stop a car than playing intersection pinball.

[FLG]

Im sorry for their loss.

Again this is why im happy to stay AWAY from electronics with cars. I hate all these fancy push button cars and drive by wire crap.

Heck i run 2 return springs on the charger (very light second one) just in case that first one snaps. I never want to be in that position, but i know what i would do if it happend. Im sorry but if i had enough time to make a 911 call im sure id have enough time to throw the thing in neutral and then id shut it off. I know how to drive the car with no power steering, and im sure you would have enough vac to use the power brakes to stop the car...heck even without em id go 2 feet on the pedal and bury it.

And if it was a loaner car like that i wouldnt even turn the damn thing off...let it bounce off the rev limiter.

[Silver R/T]

Last thing I would do is shut down car if it jammed throttle, especially on car that relies on engine for power brakes/power steering.

[FLG]

Last thing I would do is shut down car if it jammed throttle, especially on car that relies on engine for power brakes/power steering.

Not the best thing, but im sorry if it was my charger id rather not blow the motor. I know with no PS while your moving its not THAT difficult to turn, granted if you had to do some manuvering id leave the car running. With the engine off you have atleast 2-3 pumps before the brake booster is out of vac all together. If you press the brakes down once you can easily get enough pressure to stop the car with no problem.

[bull]

Last thing I would do is shut down car if it jammed throttle, especially on car that relies on engine for power brakes/power steering.

Last thing? So you'd prefer careening through an intersection like this guy over shutting it down? You consider weak brakes and steering to be less desirable than 115 into an intersection?

[motorcitydak]

You guys are right, a Lexus is just a fancy Toyota. I have driven a few of the newer models from both companies (used to be a repo man ). I think it is also correct that we cannot pass judgement on this incident since none of us were there, but in that 48 seconds, he should have known to put it in neutral, let it rev all it wants. Believe me, they have low rev limiters that will not allow them to break( ). Either that or use the emergency brake, seems like a perfect time to use it. Still the loss really sucks

[aussiemuscle]

i've seen a couple times the throttle sticking open on race cars (v8supercars). these are 600 horse monsters, so going WOT means they are doing some serious speed. luckily they're professionals and can actually drive the car like that, although it actually slows them down because they can't use engine braking on the corners. good thing their engines have a 7500 rpm rev limiter.

FLG, if your return spring breaks in an old charger, could you pull the accelerator pedal back up with your foot?

[Mike DC]

Weren't GM F-bodies doing this back in the Bandit era?

[bull]

Something's fishy about all this. A police officer, most likely trained in high-speed pursuit techniques and traffic safety, has no idea how to stop a car with a stuck throttle with at least 48 seconds of time to react? I think even in a full-on panic I could figure out something to do within 15 seconds other than look out the windshield. The guy must have been stoned or something. I'm not trying to minimize these people's deaths or throw out accusations but it just doesn't add up.

[FLG]

i've seen a couple times the throttle sticking open on race cars (v8supercars). these are 600 horse monsters, so going WOT means they are doing some serious speed. luckily they're professionals and can actually drive the car like that, although it actually slows them down because they can't use engine braking on the corners. good thing their engines have a 7500 rpm rev limiter.

FLG, if your return spring breaks in an old charger, could you pull the accelerator pedal back up with your foot?

I guess so? Im not sure, a return spring breaking and the throttle getting stuck are different things but thats why i have 2 springs. 

[Mike DC]

Something's fishy about all this. A police officer, most likely trained in high-speed pursuit techniques and traffic safety, has no idea how to stop a car with a stuck throttle with at least 48 seconds of time to react? I think even in a full-on panic I could figure out something to do within 15 seconds other than look out the windshield. The guy must have been stoned or something. I'm not trying to minimize these people's deaths or throw out accusations but it just doesn't add up.

I agree. 



48 seconds is long enough for some guys to break into a car and get it started.

And none of the 3 people in the car had the presence of mind to just take the car outta gear? 




It sounds impossible.  The throttle sticks wide open + the shifter locks itself in gear + the ignition key won't turn off . . .  ALL AT ONCE? 

Any one of those glitches is newsworthy and recall-worthy on its own.  This sounds more like some hi-tech method of executing a hit on the guy from a James Bond movie.

 

[resq302]

Well, I for one am sorry to hear about this unfortunate incident and my heart goes out to his family who is still around.  IF Toyota is anything like Ford, they have a black box inside the car that records info a certain amount of time prior to an incident, such as an accident.  Before anyone starts pointing fingers and blaming people for what should or should not have been done, they need got get that data back from that car.  It does not say that the officer could have been standing on the brakes strying to get the car to stop.  If he indeed was, the cars computer or black box should show that.  Also if he indeed was standing on the brakes, the engine power might have ended up overpowering the brakes after the brakes started getting hot.  Anyone remember how the drum brakes tended to have brake fade once they warmed up?  Same goes for disc brakes today.  Also not knowing how the ABS system would work with trying to stop a car at speeds over 100 mph, I doubt that they would get a car to stop immediately let alone slowing it down significantly with the trottle sticking and having constant power to the wheels while applying brakes.  Lets face it, we did it back in the day with our cars..... only it was called power braking. 

Now, working in law enforcement and emergency response, I can tell you that 48 seconds is NOT a lot of time when the $h!t its hitting the fan.  A second can seem like minutes when something is going down real fast.  Minutes seem like hours.  Trust me, I've been there first hand giving someone instructions how to do CPR to a 3 yr old over the phone and waiting for the first aid squad or area patrol to arrive.

Could things have been done differently, absolutely, but hind sight is always 20/20.  Again I am not taking sides on this matter but Toyota or whoever should listen up and do a safety recall immediately.

[451-74Charger]

Remember recently there was a huge debate about Jeep Grand Cherokees with the 5.7 Hemi doing the same thing.
It happened to me twice. The official advice is NEVER shut off the engine, you may turn the key and lock the steering, not to mention loss of power brakes/steering and ... LIGHT.. if its night, your screwed.

Personally, i rode the limiter (did you know it drops to 4k with no load on the engine?) and that was enough for the "brain" to shut down into limp mode and allow me to get the pedal to respond again, but not before hitting 3 figures on the highway. (2nd time almost ran into the back of a cruiser...)

Now the issue, is Fully resolved by cleaning and re calibrating the Drive by Wire, cableless throttle system. but I always have a thought in my mind to always look for a 2nd route if this ever happens again.

48 seconds is heck of a long time to not know how to shut off a car, or hit neutral...at least in Neutral everything would still work and the limiter would prevent damage to the engine.

[Mike DC]

     
I agree about the brake heat thing.  If the driver was standing on the brakes while the gas was mashed, then the heat would have rendered the brakes worthless well inside of 48 seconds.



But anybody trapped in a car that is pegging the needle at 100+ mph with two other family members along for the ride . . . they aren't gonna give a flying fuck about over-revving the motor. 

If the driver didn't throw it into neutral then either none of the 3 people thought of it or else the car wouldnt allow it.  And 48 terror-filled seconds is a pretty long time for a cop & two others not to think of it.   


   

[451-74Charger]

Agreed, even 10 seconds with a family member in the car is terrifying.....

[Charger440RDN]

I guess Toyota is not so superior after all their doing a recall

          http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091125/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_floor_mats

[Rolling_Thunder]

conspiracy theory = media trying to slander import car company to attempt to boost sales on domestic and now federally funded automobiles   

[Ghoste]

This would be the same media that for decades has continuously bombarded us with Japanese auto superiority and front page rants about every single flaw they can find in domestics?