100 miles in the 'Bird yesterday with 2 issues, brake fluid and hot starting

[70Sbird]

Hello all,
Two questions here, I took the Superbird out yesterday for a little over 100 mile shakedown drive before leaving for Talladega next week and came up with two issues.

First, I have always had some "seepage" of brake fluid around the cover of my master cylinder, yesterday it was WET! I'm going to try to find a new gasket locally and hopefully that will help, anyone else having issues with this? I know the M/C gets hot, is it possible the fluid is getting hot and expanding, then pushing past the gasket?

Issue #2 is a no start condition when hot. I drove 60 miles then stopped at my brothers house for about a half hour, came out, turned the key and nothing, tried a few more times and just as we grabbed a screwdriver to jump the terminals on the starter relay, it must have felt threatened and started! I have two or three more starts before I headed home again, went to run an errand last night, car had been sitting about a half hour again, no start, I used another car, came home about an hour later, started with no issues.
I had similar issues every once in a while last year so I replaced the relay, and if you jump it with a screwdriver it will crank. I haven't been able to diagnose this yet when it's not working so I cant tell if the yellow wire on the relay (+12V when cranking) is energizing the relay or not. Any ideas? I'm thinking the relay itself may be getting hot, but two in a row?

Looking forward to next week!
Scott

[hemi68charger]

Scott...
Concerning the master cylinder, are you running hot under the hood? I don't mean coolant temperature, but ambient engine compartment temperatures? The reason I ask is because my Daytona will get extremely hot under the hood and sometimes cause the brake fluid to actually boil and thus, it seeps out the top. The other thing could very well be a worn out rubber cover seal. I'll be bleeding my brakes before I leave and replacing it with the ATE Super Blue Dot 4 racing brake fluid. It has a much higher boiling point and is compatible with DOT 3 & 4.

The no-start situation. First, check to make sure all your connections on the starter relay are tight along with your battery, starter and bulkhead connector. The yellow wire, if you're an auto, on the starter relay may be bad? Have you ever by-passed the starter relay in order for it to turn over? A new starter relay is relatively cheap and good insurance regardless to take on a trip.

Cheers,
Troy

[70Sbird]

Thanks Troy,
I'm now considering changing out my fluid as well, but I'm coming up with nothing locally for a new gasket. The local Napa is ordering one he "thinks" will fit and it will be here tomorrow. None of the other "chain" stores even list a part

As for the starting, all connections are tight, and in the past when I turned the key and nothing happened, I could always jump the terminals on the relay with a screwdriver and the engine would crank (and even start if the key was on)
I'll probably try a few more times befor next week to get the car to duplicate the condition, but I did notice that when I moved the key from run to start, the parking brake light dimmed like the voltage dropped, so I may just have another questionable relay.

[69bronzeT5]

Issue #2 is a no start condition when hot. I drove 60 miles then stopped at my brothers house for about a half hour, came out, turned the key and nothing, tried a few more times and just as we grabbed a screwdriver to jump the terminals on the starter relay, it must have felt threatened and started!

I'm curious about the answer to this question. I'm having the same issues with my Duster.

[oldcarnut]

For the starting issue check your neutral safety switch.  I don't know if yours has an auto or 4 speed but the linkage or wiring may be off just enough to sometimes make or not.  Just had the similar issue but it didn't matter whether it was hot or not.  Replaced the NS switch only to find that the linkage had borderline on/off contact depending on how it settled when I put it in park.   A couple of adjustments to the rod and no more problems.  

[Dave Kanofsky]

Scott -

I just put a new (rebuilt) master cylinder in my car last week.  It was leaking out of the top also (for a while), and eventually starting not holding pressure.  My old one had a terrible sealing surface for the gasket, it was all rough.  The new one is smoooooth.  My Daytona is a power disc brake car, so I think our masters may be the same.

I had no trouble finding the master, and it was $35.  I got it at LEE Auto Parts, a local place in Bridgeview, IL.  

Lee Auto Parts
(708) 598-8980
8916 Moore Dr, Bridgeview, IL 60455

Rockauto.com looks to have them too.

Good Luck!
Dave

[BPTRacing]

I once had a Master cylinder wit the top not sealing due too the rough surface on top. After sucking the fluid out with a turkey baster, I stuffed rags in the reservoirs and used a file flat across the top to get a clean surface. Fixed the problem without having to change the M/C.

The no start does sound more like a neutral safety switch/relay problem since it will start when the relay is jumped with a screw driver.  There is one terminal on the starter relay which is at an angle relative to the rest. This is the ground from the neutral safety switch. You can run a jumper wire from this terminal to any good ground to by-pass the neutral safety switch.

I am located in Champaign IL and would be more than happy to help you trouble shoot it if needed so you can get it to FL.

Scott
217-369-7665

[Arnie Cunningham]

Greetings Scott,

I had the same leakage problem with several master cylinders.  It turned out to be a combination of the old crushed gasket and a warped lid.

If it starts with a screwdriver you are bypassing the the entire start circuit.  As mentioned, it could be connections, bad relay (they fail often), neutral safety or steering column/switch issues.  Did your car have the typical Mopar meltdown under the dash?  If so, it could have damaged the connection to the column.  I got used to starting mine in the old days with a screwdriver because I had a Preditor carb with no choke system and had to use my hand to choke it for cold starts.  Just make sure it is in neutral.... lol

Brennan

[62 Max]

First place I would go is the bulkhead connector.Had the same problem with mine.Unplugged all three connectors,cleaned,and tightened all terminals.Never had another problem.

[BigBlockSam]

First place I would go is the bulkhead connector

i had the same problem with the r/t

[FJ5WING]

Scott -

I just put a new (rebuilt) master cylinder in my car last week.  It was leaking out of the top also (for a while), and eventually starting not holding pressure.  My old one had a terrible sealing surface for the gasket, it was all rough.  The new one is smoooooth.  My Daytona is a power disc brake car, so I think our masters may be the same.

I had no trouble finding the master, and it was $35.  I got it at LEE Auto Parts, a local place in Bridgeview, IL.  

Lee Auto Parts
(708) 598-8980
8916 Moore Dr, Bridgeview, IL 60455

Rockauto.com looks to have them too.

Good Luck!
Dave

Hey Dave,

I would like to ask you about the master cylinder you purchased.

Is it a service replacement or does it look somewhat like the originals?

[ChgrSteve67]

I reciently had the starting problem with my Charger and it was the ignition switch.
Car started fine, later shut it off and nothing. Turned the key about 30 times and she started right up.

I don't have a nutral safety switch in mine since I'm a petal pusher.

Ign switch in mine is a PITA to change but I had no choice. I don't know if the NSS is easier or harder to replace.
I usually go for the easiest and cheapest parts to replace first.

[70Sbird]

Thanks for all of the responses,
here are some stats that may eliminate some possibilities,
Car is a 4-speed so the manual trans relay only has one spade connection, the other is grounded/soldered to the case of the relay.
I just had all of the wiring out of the car when I did a rebuild of the dash gauges, all connections are clean, lubed with dielectric grease, and tight.
I'm anxious to see if this happens again, so I can see if I'm actually getting signal voltage to the relay with the key in the start position. I'll bet that I am.

My master cylinder is working great, it just leaks around the lid. I replaced it about 5 years ago from Advance, lifetime warranty. I stopped in there tonight, they can't get the gasket, but said they would warranty the whole M/C, and just give me the gasket out of the new one. He tried to order one, they can no longer get the correct unit. so I guess Advance lifetime warranty means only as long as they stock the part. He did offer to give me a refund if I brought in the M/C - I just need the gasket dude!

[pettybird]

considering the time crunch I'd just pull the fluid level down a bit and fix it this winter.  how far towards the top do you currently have it filled?


I would think it's a connection problem, as well.  If your bulkhead connector and ignition switch look like your fuse box did that would definitely do it.  if you've got a spare relay throw it on, but it sounds like test light time. 



if all that fails I'll be down there on Wednesday.   

[Dave Kanofsky]

Scott -

Hey Dave,

I would like to ask you about the master cylinder you purchased.

Is it a service replacement or does it look somewhat like the originals?

The cast body looks just like the original.  I ended up using the lid and clip from my old one because the new one didn't look quite right.  Of course I swapped the new gasket into my old lid.

[b5blue]

My 70 Charger has a similar start problem that comes and goes, since it will not stay failed I can't nail it down. When I jump the solenoid it fires right up but when it's in fail I can hear it clicking when I hit the key. (I have neutral safety by passed)     

[nascarxx29]

Sometimes the steering column to harness connectors and not to good

[b5blue]

Yea and I've replaced the key lock and switch, cleaned all the old connectors as I went through the column repair some time ago. Sometimes it clicks but I get no cranking, time to throw a new one in and see, I don't want to hijack his thread, just add to it. I'll change mine and tear the old one apart.