5.7 Hemi swap into the Marty Robbins 1969 Daytona with pictures

[pettybird]

This car was put together in around 1993 as a lark--a couple other Winged Warriors club members had gone the NASCAR tribute route around that time.  Mike Svec had this very clean So. Carolina shell laying around for his wife, who wanted a pink Charger.  She lost interest after the car was painted, and he didn't know what to do with it.  A friend and fellow club member showed him a post card "hero" card with Marty Robbins, the country singer, who drove pink race cars with yellow highlights.  Cotton Owens put the cars together for Marty, who raced in Grand National races for the fun of it.  Cotton set his cars up on the safe side, and Marty was never really competitive but he had fun.  He even gave impromptu concerts at the tracks where he raced.  He only raced a Daytona one time, finishing nearly last after retiring with a blown engine at the 1970 Charlotte World 600.  His last race car was in 1978, a Magnum.  He raced a couple more times before his early death in 1982.  

We bought the car around six years ago, running and driving, with a '68 440/727 combo.  The motor makes a lot of torque but for some reason is both slow and horrible on gas.  We've taken it a bunch of places, but our trip workhorse is a B5 440/auto Superbird which we've owned since August 1976.  Suffice to say we're attached to it, and while it'll live for much longer than the 109,000 miles we've put on it so far I really want to use this car as our long distance choice.  I want to protect the 'bird since it's a family member.  That's not to say we don't like Marty (yep, we call the car by name) but it's more of a favorite pet than blood relative.  

Overdrive transmissions are expensive and they do nothing for power.  Hopping up the 440 would definitely make it go, but since we're currently at 9MPG it won't get better.  Swapping in a 2G Hemi, a bigger 440, etc. would also not do well at the pump.  Putting a small block in a 440 car simply doesn't feel right, but there's power potential and the mileage would rise.  A couple years ago I got bit by the new Hemi bug, and it stuck with this car.  I did a lot of research, combed the classifieds and asked a lot of questions before I spent dollar one, and decided this was the way I wanted to go.  After finding a 26,000 mile 2004 5.7 Hemi truck engine, complete from intake plenum box to oil pan, from all accessories on the front cover to the flexplate and with the entire wiring harness and computer setup for $1300 on Craigslist I was off and running.  

It's neat to have wing cars, and we're lucky enough to have three, but they're family cars which have been around for a while (the two Superbirds came home before I turned one) and we're simply not made of money.  When I did my research it seems the only budget swaps went into A bodies.  B and E swaps all start with shiny crate engines, most of them get tubular K frames and rack and pinion steering and five speed conversions--do a Google search and you'll see what I mean.  There's nothing wrong with that, if you have the money.  A body swaps are cool to read about but there are enough differences in the chassis that they have to do some things differently than B/E guys do, like lose any hope of power steering, run remote oil filter kits and more.  I am by no means a pioneer but I'm making enough mistakes as I go that it's obvious that not many guys have taken to these motors yet, or I'm ADD.  Just don't ask any of my former teachers for their opinions on that one...

Unlike an LA or B/RB swap there are enough painfully expensive parts on a Hemi that you'll wince when you're buying the big stuff if you're trying to do this on a budget.  I wanted to do a carb swap, and there are a grand total of three intakes on the market right now.  Mopar's piece is a whopping GRAND, Edelbrock only makes a dual quad unit (although at under $400 it's the cheapest) and the last is what I bought, an XV Motorsports manifold.  For the exhaust, you can run Jeep Grand Cherokee log manifolds, but I couldn't find a dealer who would let a set go for under $300. I bought the $700 TTI headers instead.  Yes, that's more, but who really wants log manifolds?  Hooker also makes a swap set which are cheaper at $550 uncoated/$650 ceramic, but they're special order through Summit Racing, and if they don't have 'em suffice to say they're not easy to come by.  There's no distributor, so you'll need an ignition system.  Fortunately MSD makes a setup which plugs into the factory cam, crank and MAP sensors as well as the factory coil packs.  It's laptop tuneable and small, but it's more than $600 for the box and harness.  For the record Arrington Racing Engines makes a new front cover which incorporates a distributor, but to me paying $2000 for a distributor to put on a COP engine is flat out retarded.  It's bad enough I'm putting a carb on the damn thing.  Just like days of yore truck (and LX/LY car--no free lunch here) oil pans are rear sump, right where your steering linkage goes, so you'll need a new one.  You currently have two choices, Charlie's Oil Pans and Milodon.  Call Charlie's direct (like I did--for no other reason than we're both in Ohio and I figured I'd support the local guy) or get the Milodon pan from your favorite parts house.  I was told last week that the Milodon pan/pickup at Jeg's is now under $400, which is more than $100 off of the intro price and close to $150 cheaper than the Charlie's pan I bought earlier.  Oops.  As time goes on these prices will go down further, so it you're finding this archived in three years let's all hope you're laughing at my prices paid.  

[pettybird]

So, yes, despite the fact I got the motor complete with EFI I'm not running it.  There are a couple reasons for that.  One, I really wanted a carb manifold with the NASCAR theme--it simply fits.  Second, despite the "free" hardware it's still an uphill climb to get it in the car.  I paid $520 for the intake manifold and $575 for the MSD setup through my former employer's commercial accounts, plus $100 for the hella cool double-throw-down AFCO aluminum air cleaner I bought.  I'm reusing the existing Holley 750 vacuum secondary carb, but feel free to add in the mixer of your choice into the tally.  On the EFI front, you'll either need to spend a month of your life stripping out the factory wiring harness (I talked to two people who had done this, and it really did take them a TON of time) or give up and buy a shiny new swap harness from hotrodlane.cc or elsewhere for a grand.  Then you need the stock computer tweaked to tell it to ignore all the parts which are missing, like the TCM, BCM, ABS sensors, etc.  That's $350-500 from what I've seen, and you'd have to send it back if the tune's not spot on.  You'll also need a high pressure fuel system from the tank forward, including the pump.  That's a couple hundred bucks in the external pump and hose fittings on the cheap side or $1000+ for a neato in-tank pump setup.  I had it down in my head where I could do the harness myself and break even with the carb setup.  I decided to go with the carb for now, and if I really wanted to do it, I have the full EFI setup in the garage for down the road.  I can get a bunch of money back out of the carb stuff, so I'm out a couple hundred bucks at changeover time and I have an easier setup now. 

Your last major choice is transmission.  Since the new 5.7 runs the stock small block bellhousing pattern down to the 3/8" hardware anything that bolts up to a 318 lines up behind a Hemi.  The crank sticks out an additional .060", which some swappers ignore, but XV and others make a swap flexplate and spacer kit for just this situation.  I'll side with the cool kit as I was handed one for free (thanks, Dave Salvaggio.)  I'm also using a small block 727 this time around.  The #1 factor for me is that the car currently has one, and I don't need to mess around with the console or driveshaft or crossmember or anything else--it's as plug-and-play as it gets.  I'm kicking around a Borg Warner T5 manual swap, and I already have a pedal set, Steeda performance shifter and (stock) bellhousing sitting around for it.  TTI's tubes don't clear a stock Z bar, though, so that got kicked aside for now.  I have a very nice 2400 stall Fairbanks converter to back the motor, and it should work great with the stock cam and 3.55 gears out back. 

More parts are needed, but they're standard swap fare.  I bought the TTI motor mount adapters as I was told to buy the mounts and exhaust from the same people.  The stock oil filter location on a car or 2WD truck won't work, but the 45 degree 4WD adapter (just) clears the K frame. 
If you have A/C (like I do--a Vintage Air kit) you'll need line adapters to connect them to the stock Hemi compressor.  Bouchillon Performance has them, and I plan on getting a pair for next spring.  Yes, I could do it now, but it's October here in Ohio--I need air like I need a hole in the head. 
You need a newer 318/360 "mini" starter (the Hemi one has a different nose and doesn't work in the old transmissions,) and you'll need to do some wire harness and other electrical system upgrades.  The car I'm dealing with has a race-looking dash in it with Auto Meter gauges, for instance.  The oil pressure and water temp gauge senders simply screw right in, but if you're using the stock gauges you'll need to adapt down the water sender with an appropriate pipe coupler.  I have to replace my ammeter with a volt meter as I have no more faith in the AM gauge than the factory to handle the output load of the 137 amp Hemi alternator.  I'll also be using 8 AWG wire from the alternator back to the battery to handle the load.  If you bought a truck engine your top radiator hose is now on the wrong side, and if you bought a car engine your bottom hose is swapped.  I've seen hoses run across the core support to adapt up, and I've seen people take their radiators to a shop and have the top outlet "moved."  I set aside the 440 radiator in favor of a new Be Cool Eliminator Series unit from Summit.  It's a crossflow radiator and is a semi-custom, which means you have to drill your own holes in the side brackets for your car.  There is no trans cooler in the one I bought, but I have an external.  The radiator was only $299, so I found it to be money well spent.  For a fan I bought a Flex-A-Lite variable speed fan controller, which is a little pricey at $100, and scored a Lincoln Mark VIII fan at the local yard.  The big benefit of the variable controller is that it starts the fan out at 60% of capacity, and increases as necessary.  The mark VIII fan might seem like an odd choice, but Google it and you'll see it's an immensely powerful fan, flowing up to 3300CFM.  It's also the exact dimensions of the Be Cool radiator, so that's a big plus.  And it was $30...find a new bling bling electric fan that flows 3000+CFM for near that. 

[daytona71]

Sounds like a lot of fun either way you go. A couple of years ago, I was chatting with a friend who said her dad took her to visit one of his friends. She said that I might have heard of him, Cotton Owens. Apparently there was a race engine over in the corner of the shop that was out of Marty Robbins car. Might be more to the story, you never know
Good luck

[pettybird]

Here's the starting point--running, but not efficient and not fast.  You got the 9MPG part, and for speed, here goes.  At the Norwalk Chrysler Classic a couple years ago, I did a fun run against my mom.  She was in Marty and I was in our 4 speed 'bird.  The lights went green and I let out the clutch too quickly and damn near stalled the car.  I shoved in the clutch, caught the motor, and gave chase.  She had a hell of a lead and was pulling away until I was well into third gear.  I ended up freight training past her at the 1000ft mark and took her by 3-4 car lengths.  The 'bird is virtually stock and I was still at the line when she was 100ft out.  Really, that was the nail in this motor's coffin.  I ran a 14.80 with the stall and got 14mpg on the way home, two pathetic numbers this motor couldn't hit.  






Here's the  440 wiring harness.  It's heavily modified already to account for the electronic ignition, lack of temp and oil senders and the electric choke.  I'll be using the horn wiring, the voltage regulator, the start/run wires for the MSD and, well, that's about it.  





Your experience may vary, but the nose is so damn long my borrowed engine hoist wouldn't fit from the front.  I pulled the transmission, yanked the front wheel and with big help from my uncle Ed and friend Dave took the mill out over the driver fender.  





She'll kill me for posting this but Mom decided it was a good time to clean out the engine bay.  No comments please...it's her car, after all.  I just fix 'em.





Here's my new-to-me Hemi.  345ci, 10:1 compression, super high revving, twin plug and light.  I'm hoping for 300-310hp at the wheels...on 87 octane gas.  Herb McCandless gets 19mpg highway with his Mopar crate engine'd '63 300, so I'm thinking I'll get similar.  The motor was really clean, as it was from Tennessee and had the low 26,000 mile odometer reading.  I cleaned the heads and block with lacquer thinner and wire brushed the front cover and accessories.  I clearcoated the bare aluminum parts and painted the black motor with a dusting of additional black paint to freshen it up.  No fake Hemi orange here, thank you.  I pulled the valve covers and painted them a light bronze with Rustoleum Hammer Finish paint.  It's a clean look, is almost stock, and the paint wears like iron and cleans right up.  It was also a good excuse to pull the covers and stare at the valvetrain...very cool stuff.  That's the XV flexplate and bellhousing shim in red.  Notice the bolt-on rear main seal, too.  





TTI says you have to modify the engine mounts.  They send you a stupid .jpg with no explanation, and tell you to just buy the $170 Schumacher urethane mounts.  Well, the driver side is on with no complications, but the passenger side needs this chunk cut out.  There's an ear on the block that otherwise interferes with the mount.  See the second pic and it's very clear.

While I'm on the subject, the TTI mounts are a piece of work.  The passenger side is almost OK, except keep in mind it's a LOT easier to bolt the isolator to the adapter before mounting the adapter to the block.  Also keep in mind that, even if you wanted to, you can't use an oil filter in the stock location without modifying the adapter.  It fits right on with the 45 degree adapter, though.
The driver side is another story completely.  First, you can't get to one of the three bolts to bolt the adapter to the block.  I had to grind out part of the mount to put the massive 3/8" wrench in place to tighten it down--you can't turn it as is let alone put a wrench on it.  Another mount bolt is BURIED and requires a lot of patience to attach.  The isolator-to-mount clearance takes the cake, though.  I had to cut a 3/4" wrench's height in half to slip it over the nut to tighten it down.  All in all what I thought would take 10 minutes turned into an hour-long fiasco, and it could have been COMPLETELY avoided with a slightly better design!!!

On a cool side the small 10mm head bolt is one of the cross bolts for the main caps--four bolt mains are standard on the new blocks.  






Next is the oil filter adapter.  You can get raped by a "swap specialist" or you can get merely assaulted by a dealer for the same parts.  You need two parts, the main adapter body and the oil filter nipple.  I got mine from a local dealer which got it in from a dealer out of state.  THOSE jerks stole one of the two O-rings that are needed, and I had to pay an additional $13 for the missing part--I was not happy about that.  The nipple that comes with the adapter is the wrong size--it's too big, and I don't know why.  The correct one for Hemi oil filters is the other part you need and it was only a couple bucks.  You'll need three M6x25mm bolts to attach it.  No problem, right?  I thought this would be another 5 minute task.  Cue buzzer and hand me a year's supply of Rice-a-Roni.  Problem #1 is that the existing nipple in the block really, really doesn't want to come out.  We finally broke it free with a pipe wrench and a 6" breaker bar, and we needed the pipe wrench the ENTIRE WAY OUT.  It didn't loosen and get better.  That sucked.  A lot.  Especially when we figured out we couldn't get to the nipple unless we pulled the motor mount adapter back off, again.  
Problem #2 that isn't in the damn brochures is that while it's a lot easier to install the adapter while the motor's free and clear you can't put the motor mount bolt in with it on there.  This means two things:  I swore, a lot, when I figured this out, and it means you have to pull the whole adapter off if you want to change mounts.  This is me, glaring at the oil filter adapter, while Dave looks on disapprovingly.  

We hit one more snag before we got to this point, too--it seems ol' Charlie isn't exactly sure where the oil pan rail bolt holes should be drilled.  At least five of them were so far off we gave up and drilled all of the holes oversize.  That, and for $500+ it would have been nice to get another oil suction pipe O-ring.  Ah, well.  I didn't take a picture of it but these motors also come with a factory windage tray.  




After fighting with the motor mounts the engine's finally in.  I have mixed emotions as I really wanted to be further along, and I really, really wanted the transmission and headers in today, but I'll take it. The motor looks hella cool in there, and the front end is noticeably higher than it was--I'm going to have to crank down the torsion bars at least an inch.  I'm not sure Colin Chapman had a Daytona in mind with his "add lightness" theory but I'll run with it.  

More to come...  

[pettybird]

Hey mods if you want this in drivetrain please move it--posting here is simply habit 

[tan top]

   been busy ,  good stuff , keep the pictures coming 

[70Sbird]

Doug, Great stuff!
As you know I bought a Demon last year to do this exact swap!
Keep the commentary coming as I would like to actually see what this takes to make this work.
Hopefully I'll see this in person in a few weeks!
Scott

[hemigeno]

Doug,

Awesome concept and progress made despite the difficulties!  Thanks for the write-up and pictures - keep 'em coming!!!

Geno

[nascarxx29]

  Following along nice work

[jaak]

Great write up, pics and info 
Keep up the good work!

Jason

[moparstuart]

  great write up doug . oh and stop making your mom crawl around in the engine bay .

[66chargerkid]

2 words
You're crazy.... for having that much detail in a write up lmao.
Very cool. After you are done with marty you can come down and do it to my charger       

[nascarxx29]

Wonder if that 5.7 Hemi will be a tire frier like this clone daytona
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naxaTzRf_DM

[hotrod98]

Looks like a great project.
I have a 5.7 hemi / auto 5-speed setup that I bought off of a guy here for $1200. It has 35,000 miles on it. We had planned to use it in the Superbird clone but I've decided to use it in my 71 Cuda instead along with a 4-speed. I didn't want to hack the floors up for the 5-speed auto.
As for fuel mileage, I don't know what to expect. I put a '95 Dodge truck 5.9 / A518 OD in my wife's cuda and it gets 29 mpg with the cruise set at 70.
I'll drive down to Street and Performance and get the crossover stuff to put the 5.7 in the cuda. They're close by and have all of the good stuff. A friend of mine makes their wiring harnesses and I may just go that route instead of altering the existing harness like I've done in the past. This computer has theft deterrent or some such crap.
Keep the pics and info coming.

Here's a couple of pics of the 5.9 in my wife's cuda.

[mopar_nut_440_6]

Thanks for the detail of the build. This will definitely come in handy for those of us who have been considering a similar swap.

Great work! 

[moparstuart]

 

[greatwn73]

I'm in the midlle of a similar swap, here's some suggestions

Don't forget to use a neutral balanced torque converter or knock the weights off the stock one.
Grind down the area along the bottom of the block casting behind where the starter mounts. It will interfere with the starter lining up.

I used a Weldtech oil pan and all the holes lined up. It came with a pickup tube that had a bracket that mounted in the stock position and wasn't nessessary to move the main bolt that holds the bracket.

http://www.weldtech.ca/parts.html

I also used the mopar flexplate P5153753 and no spacers were nessessary.The flex plate cover will have to be modified , it won't fit between the block and tranny.

When using the angled oil filter adapter cut approx. 1 1/2 inches off the lip of the adapter (its still tight) and use the short oil filter for the cars. I only have about 1/2 inch clearance to the frame.


I also used the TTi conversion mounts but didn't experience the issues you described. The isolaters did have to be shaved in spots and the pics in the instructions suck but I found some clearer ones from other forums that really helped. (just can't find them now)
The TTi headers fit really well and no mods were nessessary when they bolted on, you could almost get them on with the engine resting on the mounts.

[hotrod98]

Any ideas on how to use my stock 4 speed setup with my 5.7 hemi in my 71 Cuda? That's a swap that I haven't tried yet but will be doing so in the near future.

[Magnumcharger]

Keep it coming!
I'm anxious as all get out to see your final product.
Then I'll have a shitload of questions for you!!

[A383Wing]

yer gonna get fat(ter) eating all that popcorn 

[Rolling_Thunder]

Any ideas on how to use my stock 4 speed setup with my 5.7 hemi in my 71 Cuda? That's a swap that I haven't tried yet but will be doing so in the near future.

You should be able to use a MP flywheel with a stock bellhousing and 833...    use a stock TO bearing and what not...        The computer will need to be flashed for manual transmission work...    I'm having to do the same thing with my 6.1   

[nascarxx29]

Keep up the good work thought you might get inspired over this

[pettybird]

that's awesome--I don't have that picture. 

I've been doing a lot of little crap and will post more in the next couple days.  the weather has not cooperated lately, and I've actually picked up work four days last week, so that's helpful. 

[pettybird]

Well, round two is a big one.  I've been thrashing all week but I don't think I'll have him done by Monday in time for Talladega.  I had some quieter Dynomax mufflers put on the B5 bird and I'm taking that instead. 

First, a HUGE thanks to greatwn73 for the heads-up about clearancing the block for the starter.  Since I knew I wouldn't be dealing with the starter until after the headers were on this would have been a major pain in the ass.  See the pic below--I took off one of the threaded ears with a sawzall...it came off amazingly easy. 




I apologize for some of the pictures here--some were taken at night and I used three different cameras, depending on which one I remembered putting where 


I roped another friend of mine into helping with the transmission, and it went in without issue.  Then I remembered I sold off the old transmission with the dipstick, speedo gear housing and starter stud.  Dolt.  I then went to Summit and bought another dipstick and tube as well as a Derale deep transmission pan.  I wanted a deep pan, and didn't bother to open the box until I got home.  The thing has to be six or seven inches thick--it's ridiculous.  Oh, and the dipstick is for a B/RB motor and not an A, so I called Mancini Racing and got corrected parts for both.  The mount and crossmember, driveshaft and shifter linkage bolted right up, which is why I wanted another 727 in the first place.  I talked to Herb McCandless about these swaps and he suggested I find an 80's 904 with a lockup converter, and that sounds cool, but I don't think I'll be able to stop myself from adding a big cam in the spring instead to go with my nice Fairbanks 10.5" converter.  I'm doing this for the fuel economy...right?  No shots of the trans install--it went just as expected. 

No pics of the passenger header--it slipped right in without lifting the motor or coming close to anything.  The fit is amazing.  I still think $600+ for headers is stupid, but they're awesome, so I'll shut my mouth. 

The next pic is of the driver side motor mount, and yes it has to be clearanced, too.  Not having done this ahead of time led us to believe the header hit a motor mount bolt, so we took it back out and dimpled the tube slightly.  I shaved off the ear while it was out, and when we put it back in the interference was gone.  Doh!



Two more points of interest:  This is the oil pressure sender port ready to connect to my mechanical gauge inside, and the pipe plug is to block off exhaust gasses meant for the EGR valve.  The hole is drilled to 7/16" from the factory, which is exactly the right size for the 3/8 pipe tap I used.  Quick and easy--I wish more was going like this!  I sealed it up with some exhaust putty just in case.  Also notice the truck engines have the heater hoses exiting in a really convenient place, and just behind that the oil filter and adapter are on.  I cut down the "scoop" on the adapter as greatwn73 suggested it, and I had already purchased a 4x4 truck filter, which must be the same size as the car part as it JUST fits.  I spun it on and contemplated urethane mounts--it's going to be a bitch to change the oil in 10 years if the motor sags a half inch. 




Up top, flip the intake over and you'll find an odd port, which is especially odd since the manifold came with exactly zero paperwork of any kind.  This is where the MAP sensor goes, and the MSD box needs it.  Had no idea.  After searching the internet I found my MAP on the factory intake, but it spun in rather than bolted down, and ended up looking like this:



If you're starting with a car engine, or any SRT motor, you'll have the bolt-down style.  Now, there's an O-ring for sealing, and it would be under vacuum, but I didn't want it to fall out.  I huffed a little Kawasaki Green paint and came up with the following solution:



I used a little silicone for sealer, and since it's underneath you'll never see it.  That, and I didn't feel like shelling out $70+ for another one. 

This whole motor is sealed shut with O-rings.  I think that's awesome, and XV must have, too, since new gaskets didn't make the box, either.  Pop out all eight intake ports and the two oil/breather port gaskets, either plug or use the two vacuum ports on the back, use the supplied M6 fasteners, and down it goes.  It looks badass.  You're also looking at a Summit universal throttle cable bracket that's going underneath the Holley 750 vacuum secondary carb I kept from the 440.  I've mocked up the carb linkage but that didn't get installed today. 

[pettybird]

Since the MSD ignition allows you to shut off the wasted spark deal, you can eliminate this spaghetti mess of wires:



Instead, I pulled apart the stock wires and shortened them.  I didn't feel like spending $69+ on two feet of plug wire and eight boots.  The terminal ends and boots show no wear so far, so I'll probably just re-wire them in a few years.  Notice too that I was anal enough to put the "right" wires back in their respective cylinders...Also in this pic you can see the MSD harness laid out, and it connects up like it's OEM.  The only issue I have is that the harness is so long you can mount the control box under the passenger seat...why?  I'm going to put it under the battery tray to get it out of the way, and to find a place to put it.  For a carbureted engine the bay is certainly getting full!  Mike Svec bent up the cool double feed lines to the carb, and had run new aluminum lines front-to-rear when he put the car together.  I grabbed a heater hose adapter (3/8" pipe fitting, 6" of metal line and a barb fitting on the other end--AutoZone has them in their drawers behind the counter,) a Russell aluminum fuel filter and some Goodyear fuel injection-rated hose I had laying around.  Since the undercar piping was aluminum it bent very easily, and I have a nice gentle bend away from all moving parts as well as the exhaust.  Also, check out the totally cool PCV valve I found--it's at the 12 o'clock position in the picture.  It screwed right into the intake itself with no mods--I was stoked.  The dumb thing is like fourteen bucks instead of under three, but oh well.  Here's the part number, too. 






On the other side of the manifold I screwed in the XV oil filler catheter, I mean tube.  Seriously--I don't have huge hands, and this is as big as it is.  I poured six quarts through that thing, and if you're going to do the same be sober, patient and steady.  I've also not seen a decent solution for crankcase venting with this manifold, so I came up with a cool one.  The top of the straw, er, pipe, is 1" diameter, and at Summit I grabbed a K&N slip-over style breather.  Trick, eh? 





Also sourced from Summit is their dual spring return setup.  The cable mount plate was about $20, and this spring setup is like $8, so it's economical and very cool in action.  They give you two lighter and two heavier springs so you can even tune your return.  Trick! 




I started mounting the accessories and found you had to modify the A/C compressor Van Gogh style.  This ear needs to bolt to a place the XV intake is, so off it came.  There are two 8mm bolts that go through the case as well as a steel brace up front, so I didn't hesitate to cut.  Did Daimler believe in vanishing compressors which must be lashed securely? 





Exhaust porn--I'm totally excited by this.  This is a Pypes X pipe with integrated dumps after the X, and it's 3" all the way.  This car is going to sound like it's qualifying with those caps off!  Headers, big pipes, the X, dumps and a 6500+RPM redline--Yes please!  Plans are for electronic butterflies and ovalized tubing in the spring.

[pettybird]

Kinda dumb, but I forgot to take a picture of the power steering pressure hoses before I cut them.  The long nut thingy is gonna go onto the factory pipe, and I'm going to get that done tomorrow.  I'd have it done now but the piping is double thick and my double flare kit says Fisher-Price on the side, and I broke it.  I have a friend with a shop who's going to do it for me in the morning.  I was at a traffic light and remembered I had a camera on me, so there I am, clutch in, shifter in first, at a red light.  Safety first!  Also, I think this is the only picture of my '87 Porsche 944S I've posted anywhere, and I've had the car since March.  I like it a lot and would recommend one to my neighbors and friends. 




I've spent more time on the cooling system than I wanted to, but I'm nearly done.  I started with a Be Cool Eliminator Series radiator, part # 10016.  It's for Chevy, Ford, Mopar "direct fit" applications, but it went in with little trouble.  Here it is in front of the Griffin I pulled out of the car:



It's a little thicker, a little shorter and a little wider with the tanks, but it fits the hole really well.  These are Be Cool's budget radiators which don't have nice tank top and bottom caps, additional mounting holes or any other icing.  I finally got the rep on the phone to tell me the cores and tanks are the same, so that settled it.  It's a twin oval tube, 3" thick crossflow radiator, and it should do great.  I got another radiator as the outlet and inlet ends are swapped from B/RB.  Here it is mocked up in the car:




I wanted to run an electric fan with this radiator, and good aftermarket ones are a billion dollars.  I knew about Lincoln Mark VIII fans since I wanted one for my fox chassis Mustang, so I called up the dimensions of the radiator and the fan, and found the shroud would cover all but about a 3/4" vertical slice of the core.  It fits so well you'd swear it was made for the radiator.  I cut off the mounting ears and used two pieces of 3/4" aluminum angle iron (aluminum?) from Home Depot to bolt it to the radiator.  I drilled holes in the shroud and the aluminum and fastened it down with bolts.  I then used U nuts and tapping screws to attach it to the radiator.  It looked awesome--check it out:





I put it all together and had my friend help me lower it into place.  "Clunk," said the nose of the water pump against the fan motor.  Yep--I mis-measured, and it didn't fit.  Damn.  I figured out how much had to be taken off and came up with about 5/8".  I laid down a piece of electrical tape all around as a guide and proceeded to mangle one side of the shroud on a test cut with a scroll saw.  I needed something which would cut a LOT straighter than I could, and mom volunteered her new table saw.  I took the fan down the basement, made a test cut in a scrap piece, and sure enough it cut straight and didn't tear up the plastic.  I'm not sure which is wilder--the saw cut the plastic OK or mom bought a new table saw just because she wanted one.  Who doesn't respect a woman like that?  Here's the newly shorn fan with the trimmed piece on the ground behind:



And here it is in the car.  I had to drill two additional holes in the core support to bolt in the radiator, but I'm cool with it as this is probably going to be the car's configuration for a decent portion of the rest of my life.  The fit is great and the fan is MUCH larger than a typical aftermarket job.  Besides--I can get a replacement motor if this one burns out at the parts store. 



Here's the hose I found and cut down from AutoZone, an L 005. It fits right in.  I'm going to have to get creative with the lower, though.  More on that later. 





It's not done yet, but I've gone from this



to this.




Tell me that doesn't look like an alien spaceship engine compared to the old 440!  I'll be at it again tomorrow and probably Saturday but I need to pack for Talladega and get the 'bird ready to go.  I want to hear this thing run, though--it's killing me!

[The70RT]

Wow....your almost there 

[moparstuart]

 

[PocketThunder]

Damn dude that is nice work! 

I never knew the tray in front of the radiator on wing cars was for tool storage.. 

[moparstuart]

Damn dude that is nice work! 

I never knew the tray in front of the radiator on wing cars was for tool storage.. 

yeah its great for that , just cover the latch hole . LOL 

[pettybird]

Damn dude that is nice work! 

I never knew the tray in front of the radiator on wing cars was for tool storage.. 

yeah its great for that , just cover the latch hole . LOL 

and have a magnet on-hand anyway 

[moparstuart]

Damn dude that is nice work!  

I never knew the tray in front of the radiator on wing cars was for tool storage..  

yeah its great for that , just cover the latch hole . LOL  

and have a magnet on-hand anyway        i really need one of those little magnetic trays to plop over the hole and hold bolts and such

or a kid ( free labor) to crawl under and dig stuff out

[marty42]

Damn dude that is nice work!  

I never knew the tray in front of the radiator on wing cars was for tool storage..  

yeah its great for that , just cover the latch hole . LOL  

and have a magnet on-hand anyway        i really need one of those little magnetic trays to plop over the hole and hold bolts and such

or a kid ( free labor) to crawl under and dig stuff out

I am the kid!

[moparstuart]

Damn dude that is nice work!  

I never knew the tray in front of the radiator on wing cars was for tool storage..  

yeah its great for that , just cover the latch hole . LOL  

and have a magnet on-hand anyway        i really need one of those little magnetic trays to plop over the hole and hold bolts and such

or a kid ( free labor) to crawl under and dig stuff out

I am the kid!

oh yeah you will never grow up   

[66chargerkid]

More like a kid for slave labor. Digging stuff out is the easy part.
Replacing 3 fuel pumps in a row then going home to do it again is always a blast.
Looks good Doug. I kinda like the carberator idea.
But then again damn this is expensive for have a whole motor you have to modify a lot to get it in and even more for all the fun stuff you can do with it.
Not for someone necessarily on a budget.
Think I will stick with a 383 in my charger for the time being.

[moparstuart]

 

[pettybird]

keep munching.  mom bought new windows for the house and that's what I've been installing since we've come back from talladega


oh...and I never learned to finish playing with one toy before starting with the next...wait for upcoming shots of the B5 car 

[moparstuart]

    did you ever finish buttoning this thing up  ?

[pettybird]

  did you ever finish buttoning this thing up  ?

not yet--it's COLD out, i'm currently in Wisconsin working at Salvaggio Auto Design doing parts tracking and component restoration, and we have the B5 bird at a friend's body shop at home.  All that and unemployment, too, so money's obviously no object. 

I do want to go to Branson in this car, and I'll start working on it again in another month or so when it warms up.  the bulk of the hard work is done, so I'm not worried about making the deadline.  If I miss it (like I did for Talladega) though, it is awfully nice to have plans B and C in the garage 

[200MPH]

How well does the engine run with the carb on it ?

[pettybird]

How well does the engine run with the carb on it ?

so far, just like a submarine--silent and deep.

(translation:  i haven't started it yet  )

[200MPH]

ahhh

[moparstuart]

  did you ever finish buttoning this thing up  ?

not yet--it's COLD out, i'm currently in Wisconsin working at Salvaggio Auto Design doing parts tracking and component restoration, and we have the B5 bird at a friend's body shop at home.  All that and unemployment, too, so money's obviously no object. 

I do want to go to Branson in this car, and I'll start working on it again in another month or so when it warms up.  the bulk of the hard work is done, so I'm not worried about making the deadline.  If I miss it (like I did for Talladega) though, it is awfully nice to have plans B and C in the garage 

at least soon you will have all three plan a,b & c up and going again .

[69_500]

Doug your as bad as me always starting stuff and never finishing any of it right? Okay so I finish things eventually but its usually after I have 3-4 more projects around the house or in the garage or on the car rolling as well. Thats typically when I get the original project finished off.

[pettybird]

Doug your as bad as me always starting stuff and never finishing any of it right? Okay so I finish things eventually but its usually after I have 3-4 more projects around the house or in the garage or on the car rolling as well. Thats typically when I get the original project finished off.

probably worse.  i can't even sell the ones we don't want.

springtime (or so) projects include a new timing belt and water pump for my 944, brakes on the petty car, finish the B5 car, finish marty (including interior/dash work) finish the outside trim work on mom's new house windows, fix/sell her 914, sell my 924 Turbo, sell my wrecked mustang convertible, find a job, etc. 

so yeah, i think we got the same problems. 

[moparstuart]

 

[pettybird]

Munch just a tad longer--I actually put a couple miles on it last week!

No hood, no air cleaner, no exhaust...no problem!

I just loaded a new timing curve into the MSD and it revs a lot stronger.  The factory curve in the box went to 27 degrees of mechanical advance at 2000rpm and then backed it off to 24 degrees at 3000...no wonder it didn't pull well.

I have just a couple minor things to take care of--terminate the temp gauge wire at the sender, set the fan controller temperature (I needed the gauge first) and dial the ignition in.  I'm 99% sure (with that last 1% taken up with denial) that my air cleaner/filter is too tall.  Have to get the hood on to confirm, but it's not looking good with the 3" filter.  I also have to find a left hand nut for the water pump pulley--it's normally retained by the mechanical fan.  Then, it's off to the exhaust shop to reconnect the mufflers and tailpipes to my new X pipe.

I'm thrilled that it runs, the transmission shifts as it should, and nothing leaks.  I'll get back to posting pics soon--the new job, this car and my previously mentioned Porsche have taken up a lot of time.  I didn't get to the 944's timing belt in time, and it broke...it's taken weeks and multiple paychecks to get the parts to put it back together. 

The Daytona WILL be at the nats.  I'll push it if I have to!

[moparstuart]

  did you hurt the values in the  944 ??

[pettybird]

  did you hurt the values in the  944 ??

all eight exhaust valves bent.  I was stubborn and searched for a 16V car, so it's my fault.  my uncle and a good half dozen of his friends have regular 944's with 8V heads, which I could have picked up off the floor and reinstalled on mine.

head work was $520 plus valves which were (surprisingly) only $28/each.  I'm in to the repairs/updates this summer for around $1800.  water pump, belts, rollers, full electrical tune up, cleaned and flowed injectors, motor mounts, sensors, gaskets, timing chain parts and more. 

[tyly]

  Great job with your Daytona
This is my 5.7 Hemi project.


there are more pictures of my challenger: http://kuvablogi.com/blog/9726/1/

  how did you get your alternator to operate?


  -Teemu-

[pettybird]

 Great job with your Daytona
This is my 5.7 Hemi project.
 how did you get your alternator to operate?
 -Teemu-

we're brothers through color!!!

it works if you hook it up to the 1970 regulator--just hook one of the terminals on the alternator to power and one to the green wire coming from the regulator.  

[moparstuart]

cool set up

my buddy scott put a 6.1 in his challenger convertible ,  very nice set up

[pettybird]

It's pretty bad when you haven't posted in your own thread for so long that you have to go back and see where you left off!  It was supposed to be a nice day today but it's cold and sprinkling, so it's a good time for an update!

I didn't like my upper radiator hose, so I went to O'reilly's and got another.  I have the part wrapper somewhere, but after some minor trimming it looks like it was made for the car.  There's even (a little) better access to the power steering reservoir below, which is handy.  The lower hose is a different story.  The inlet on the water pump of the truck motor is so fantastically large it's comical.  The radiator outlet is normal-sized.  Guess which factory hose was cut when the engine was taken out.  My solution SHOULD work fine...I hope.  I found a hose which reduced the engine side a bit, found a hose that increased the radiator size a bit, and found an exhaust adapter that fit both.  I trimmed the hoses, trimmed the exhaust adapter (one of those short pieces of pipe at the parts store) and got the angles right.  I carefully removed the whole thing and wrapped it with self amalgamating rubber tape.  The tape is advertised as 100% pure rubber that sticks to itself.  It's non-adhesive, relying on friction to keep it together.  People use it to repair garden hoses and the like, and it's there as nothing more than insurance for the fittings on here.  I then clamped it all together with radiator clamps.  It hasn't even thought of leaking since it's been together.  The car did boil out some coolant (more on that later) and it came out the cap, not through the hose. 

[pettybird]

Two apologies for the pics--one, Flickr doesn't allow you to grab bigger pics anymore.  Two, I was rebuilding the front suspension of the car at work last weekend and remembered I had my camera with me, so I snapped a few pics LATE into the project and didn't put much thought into them...

The power steering idea proposed a page and a year ago didn't come together.  First, I couldn't find a place willing to put the big fitting on the line with the flare I needed.  No one wanted to touch it.  Secondly, I lost the damn fitting.  Seriously--it's gone.  No idea.  I don't need it any more, so I thought it would be under my pillow in bed by now, left by the Forgotten Car Part Fairy.  She's been to you, too--don't deny it.  After sulking, I took the fitting out of the pump while it was on the car.  BOING, said the spring/valve/check ball combo inside.  Ah well, a couple short minutes of swearing and crawling around in the garage later I had the pieces back.  I looked at the fitting to see why it required such a long lead on the hose fitting, and found nothing.  I assume it's there to help the assembly line workers cross-thread them in the most effective manner.  Cue bench vise and sawzall, and now I just needed a normal length nut.  Back to the hydraulic hose people, who were as unhelpful as before.  I learned to NOT tell them it was for a car, because that put them immediately into seizure/lawsuit weariness mode.  On my visit to my second NAPA store I found a store manager who pieced together a Weatherhead set for me.  The most aggravating problem is that the fittings are two different sizes, and by that I mean there aren't fittings on both sides which take the same diameter of hydraulic hose.  The solution was to take a small 90 degree fitting for the gearbox, swedge it onto a smaller, 6" piece of hose, press that side into a pipe adapter, use a larger size hose on the other size for about 5", and then into a steel compression fitting holding the proper fitting for the pump.  AAA discount later I was out the door in about $50.  Considering I guessed at the lengths needed it came out really well.  The return hose is another stupid piece on the trucks, as the hose from the rack to the pump is 5/8"++ for reasons only Chrysler knows.  It was so big I was able to take the original piece of 3/8" line from the 440 and stick it INSIDE the hose from the truck.  I mused for a while, then cut a small length of 3/8" fuel pipe, stuck it into the 3/8" hose, and stuck that into the truck hose.  I wrapped it all back up with the amalgamating tape like the radiator hose, used a couple clamps (the pipe inside prevented it from crushing) and it hasn't leaked a drop in more than two months.  Check out the new power steering gearbox, too--Cordoba application.  The old box developed some mystery leak at times and held fluid others.  I talked to Steer & Gear at the 'nats and they told me not to worry about the pressure out of the newer style pump--there's a regulator built into the box from the factory.  This is a common question on the 5.7 swap threads...  I used the 'doba box because it was over $100 cheaper at AutoZone than the 1969 part, and one of my local stores had it in stock.  Use a 1973-1974 B Body pitman arm to keep the geometry the same:  You need to update the arm because the only real change after 1972 is the sector shaft size, meaning your old arm won't fit.  I priced out the new arm, finding rockauto.com having the cheapest price, but ended up buying one at the 'nats for $30. 

You can also see where I mounted the MSD box under the tray.  If you don't like your inner fender, it's great.  Otherwise you may cringe a hair when you're taking a ball peen hammer to the area at the very rear of the battery tray where the ignition box (which tucks so well under the tray it looks like it grew there) hits the body.  Since this was the ONLY rusty area anywhere on the car (good 'ol 1970's leaking battery) it needed to get cut out anyway on this car, so I whacked away.  It *just* allows me access to the serial cable port on the front end to connect the cable to the laptop.  I also used carriage bolts to hold it to the tray as they were slim enough to not aggravate the battery above. 

[pettybird]

The moral of this picture is:  Find an exhaust shop that'll work with you, and is cool with custom work.  We made an appointment with shop #1, and they made us wait for an hour before we brought the car in.  They then frowned at what I wanted, shook their heads, told me (in similar words) that I was an idiot, and wanted $400 to install the X pipe I brought.  We kindly thanked them, and left.  I called up the shop I took the B5 car to in like 1997, and they remembered me.  They told me I could come in right then, and that they weren't busy.  I managed to do all of that from the car as I have (and really like) my new Moto DROID X phone--my first smart phone.  Awesome technology.  Well, we went over and yes, they got the car in immediately.  They wouldn't let me drive the car into the bay, so I had to go over the starting procedure with the guy--ignition key on, ignition switch on, fuel pump on, start switch...off is the reverse of that.  I hate custom wiring.  They looked it all over, shot us a price of $225 with the sidepipes I needed, and got to work.  They welded it all together, mated up the mufflers on the car, and sent us on our way.  I might have mentioned it before that I was adamant about keeping the mufflers as they are whisper quiet.  Like, sneak up on ninjas quiet.  This will be our trip car, and my least favorite noise of all time is exhaust drone.  I'd take a car full of minaret prayer wailers instead.  Besides...it has exhaust cutouts...why do I need noise all the time? 

You can also see the XV flexplate underneath, as well as the Mopar deep transmission pan and the really swell TTI headers.  At this point I also have the control arms back in with new bushings, the new steering box, new ball joints and a new idler.  It's about 10:45PM after starting before noon.  I'm toasted.  Mom came along to keep me company, and I put her on parts washing and cotter pin duty.  It IS her car, after all. 






These aren't on yet because I needed another set of header gaskets...dumb setback.

[pettybird]

Don't mind the bent fins...I've got to get underneath and straighten them.

There's a gap in the core support below the radiator as it's shorter than stock.  It also didn't come with a transmission cooler.  There was one on the car already (in front of the radiator) and I thought adding one more would be a good idea.  This is a street rod cooler from Summit.  It took up the gap perfectly, and gets its own airflow.  I bent new lines to it from the transmission and hooked it all up.  Amazingly nothing leaked.  The transmission hasn't blown up yet, so I'm calling this a victory.  The lines get pretty close to the exhaust in a couple places, so I'll wrap one or the other in heat wrap. 

[moparstuart]

 

[pettybird]

I hung the side pipes and cutouts today, but don't have them wired.  I set them for full open, and the sound is cool but VERY different.  It's not that loud as it only has 2.5" exits out the sides, and the X really mixes things up.  It sounds awesome when you get on it, though.  I'll have to take it out in the next couple days and run a sound clip. 

[tan top]

nice !!  thanks for posting pictures    looking forward to seeing & hearing sound video 

[70Sbird]

Hey Doug, it's been a month since the last post!
inquiring minds want to know, how is it running/Driving?

[dangina]

cant believe i missed this thread - a great read and a great car do u have the electric butterflies working yet? i always wanted to know how well they worked...

[BigBlockSam]

looks great 

[pettybird]

It's almost there.  The carb sucks, I need a better kickdown linkage, and there are a couple odds and ends which need attention. 

Come to the meet and see it in person!