69 RR with 99 99 paint code ( petty blue ) ? was it avalible

[moparstuart]

 

[moparstuart]

    i have seen rally green and omaha orange but was petty blue avalible in 69 ,  I know you could get it in 70  ,   

[68X426]

I believe the answer is no, not available in 1969. Yes 68 and 70. Let me explain.

Here is what I know: Petty Blue was available in 1968 on the Plymouth Road Runner for those vehicles that were special order and special paint coded. The fender tag for 68 would have a Y9 and 999. I know this with complete certainty because my Road Runner is Y9, 999, and an original Petty Blue. (Paint was changed by the second owner, total mistake, but that's another story).

Here is what I learned in the past year as I researched your same questions (but with no documentation, just reasonable supporting evidence told to me by old time NASCAR guys): that Richard and Chrysler spent the '68 racing year fighting over his Plymouth's performance. By summer he issued ultimatums to Chrysler. In August he told them straight out that he was switching to Ford but would still negotiate. Not until November 25th did Petty announce to the press that his team would run with the Ford Torino in 1969.

This was the reason that there was no Petty Blue used for 99 99 coded Plymouths in 1969. Chrysler simply pulled the plug on Petty Blue at the start of production for the '69 models.

I can find nothing on the Net to document this, but sure seems to make sense. I submitted questions to the Chrysler Museum and got a "sorry, no info" response.

What an obscure and yet histroic significant question: is there a 99 99 Petty Blue 1969 Plymouth Road Runner out there somewhere?

Richard was one bad ass, and ultimately won his battles and the war and got the car he wanted.

[68X426]

Stuart: I just now see the photo you had on the first post. It did not show up on my screen when I initially saw your post (some pics just come out blank on my screen).

Well it would appear that you have the Holy Grail - a 99 99 coded 1969 Petty Blue. 

Might just be one-of-one !!? Is it original paint? Has Govier or a historian seen it?

[maxwellwedge]

By looking at the battery tray (paint over pitting) and apparent lack of seam sealer on the fenders it looks like a re-spray. Not to say it wasn't originally that color - just to say it looks like it's been repainted - in the areas we can see.

[moparstuart]

  guy is an aussie , the car is down under  ?  he says its petty blue under it all  ?    what other colors could it have been  ?   with a B-7 interior colors  ?   A 99 99 special order paint with blue interior . 

[maxwellwedge]

Chrysler would paint a car any color a customer wanted - even Chevy Orange!  If it is that color underneath I wouldn't doubt it. Now, if a Canadian tried to claim that ..........   

[hemigeno]

They even spec'd it with red longitudinal tape stripes to go with the as-yet-introduced Petty/STP motif!  

[69bronzeT5]

 

That's one helluva car! Stuart, got anymore pics?

[hemi-hampton]

The Y39 Means special order. SPD was November 3Oth 5 days after he anounced he was racing for Ford. Car was probably painted the day before they pulled the color. The red Stripe V7R was painted while V6R was tape from my info. Sounds like a rare combination. LEON.

[Alaskan_TA]

99 was used for any paint color commercially available that was not a standard color for the model, even if it was from a prior model year, or a Ford or Chevy color.

Does this one resemble Petty Blue? Yes.

Was it named Petty Blue? Not likely.

[vancamp]

wasnt petty blue and corporate blue the same color???

[gtx6970]

I would prefer to refrain from judegment of this actual car unless I could see if in person

[Rolling_Thunder]

wasnt petty blue and corporate blue the same color???

to my knowledge - so the question was corporate blue available in 69 ?

[vancamp]

the text at the bottom mentions corporate blue

[68X426]

wasnt petty blue and corporate blue the same color???

No, not the same. They are two distinct colors. Yes, Corporate Blue was available in 1969.

Plymouth was using the color Plymouth Blue as early as the 1930's. It first shows up on the Ditzler color chart for 1935, with code IM-903. It looks like Corporate Blue used 35 years later.

Corporate Blue shows up on the Plymouth color charts in both 1968 and 1969 as standard, using code 12785 both years.

Petty Blue is the color that Richard and Maurice Petty created in 1959, starting with their Grand National Plymouth Fury. They patented their color and Petty Racing owns the rights to the color. Chrysler paid royalties for its use. A great deal has been documented on Petty Blue and its history. An excellent article on all things Petty is found at http://www.allpar.com/racing/petty-plymouth-racing.html.  About one-third of the way into the article is a short story about their paint color.

I am attaching a pdf document that has the two colors side-by-side. The Petty Blue is slightly lighter in tone. I have no idea if the differences will be visible once the doc is posted, but it's easy to see on the original. Hope it works.

It would be a great learn more about the car and that paint job. 

[moparstuart]

  I have been talking to this guy for a few weeks on the 69 roadrunner board    here is the thread   more pictures  http://69roadrunner.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1697 

[mauve66]

close enough that you couldn't tell unless they were parked next to each other

[riffraf]

G'day everyone
I have just found this post on the site and thanks to moparstuart this has come to light,this could be what i think a very rare bird indeed i am having trouble verifying the authenticity of it i know what the tag reads i just need verification can any one of you kind people point me in the right direction please as i am stummped on what to do next.
craig

[moparstuart]

  good to see you craig   

[Tom Q]

Yes the "color" was available in 1969, according to my research this is the rarest of special 1969 colors. A handfull of cars were painted the corporate blue.  See that "9" in the SO #??

I have a spring green 999 69 Road Runner

[69CoronetRT]

See that "9" in the SO #??

From what I've seen, the LA plant was the only one that used the 925***, 926*** and 927*** VON code for 99 paint cars regularly yet they were not consistent in using the code the entire production year. While it is common to find the 92**** VON with 99 paint code cars from the LA plant, that procedure does not seem to carry over to St. Louis or Lynch Road. You can find 99 paint cars from those plants with regular VON numbers.

It's also interesitng to note that the 925 and 926 series VONs were used for Charger 500s and Daytonas. What's it mean? IDK. It's just one more piece of the VON assignment puzzle.

[68X426]

G'day everyone
I have just found this post on the site and thanks to moparstuart this has come to light,this could be what i think a very rare bird indeed i am having trouble verifying the authenticity of it i know what the tag reads i just need verification can any one of you kind people point me in the right direction please as i am stummped on what to do next.
craig

Craig, great to see the car and welcome to the site. Awesome.

Next step is finding the broadcast sheet/buildsheet. Then finding the original owner. Both of these may be impossible. Finally, a close physical inspection will likely uncover the original color and/or repainting. Everyone would love to see lots of pics.

I seem to remember that the consensus at the 69roadrunner.net forum was that this is the only 99 99 petty blue known. There are lots of 69 RR experts to help you on the paint, the codes, and history (not me, I'm a 68er, and then just an amateur).

Pics my man, lots of pics.

[tan top]

G'day everyone
I have just found this post on the site and thanks to moparstuart this has come to light,this could be what i think a very rare bird indeed i am having trouble verifying the authenticity of it i know what the tag reads i just need verification can any one of you kind people point me in the right direction please as i am stummped on what to do next.
craig

hello & welcome 

[riffraf]

Gday Stewy
I have been off air for a while (winter)
Thanks guys for all the good advice i contacted G.Govier on this so lets see i will keep you all informed.
Just some infor that i know on the beast.
The car was purchased 5 years ago from an older gentelmen in California,the old fella was a roadrunner nut apparently i will try and remember his name as the guy i bought it of told me any way He found the car with no motor,gearbox ,interior,glass and had been painted white by a labotamized monkey with straw broom.
He opened the trunk and the blue was there he then looked at the fender tag and knew what it was,he restored it 51-17 years ago to what you see in the pic now.
I for one believe it a genuine artical as the tag has the V7R (painted red stripe),the interior,blue to match the petty blue,all the trim is correct why would it be painted orange or green with that combo?.
Ok  everyone

[riffraf]

Ok for anyone interested Mr Govier mailed back
I sent the Fender tag PIC

He said "its 1 of 7 produced from the LA plant" so there you go they did make petty Blue RR's in 1969 he is getting back to me with a history also so when i receieve it i will post.
Now who else has one
Cheers

[TruckDriver]

  Way cool! 

[moparstuart]

Ok for anyone interested Mr Govier mailed back
I sent the Fender tag PIC

He said "its 1 of 7 produced from the LA plant" so there you go they did make petty Blue RR's in 1969 he is getting back to me with a history also so when i receieve it i will post.
Now who else has one
Cheers

wow its amazing he got back to you , let alone that quickly   

[ACUDANUT]

Yea, cool color. I can't believe Galen got back to you so quickly also. 

[tatrick2me]

I purchased a Petty blue 69 RR manufactured at Lynch RD from Fred Drake Chrysler Plymouth Pensacola FL. In May 69 the car had a build date of 10/12/68. They told me a guy ordered it and never picked it up. I sold the car March 70 in Seattle WA on my way back to Vietnam. The car had sit the dealer because mopar people were pissed at Petty for running fords. I paid $2,780.00 cash out the door for the car.

[tan top]

Ok for anyone interested Mr Govier mailed back
I sent the Fender tag PIC

He said "its 1 of 7 produced from the LA plant" so there you go they did make petty Blue RR's in 1969 he is getting back to me with a history also so when i receieve it i will post.
Now who else has one
Cheers

wow its amazing he got back to you , let alone that quickly  

yeah me too !! 

sent some questions about his services over 20 years back , long before internet , still waiting for a reply  
even phoned at the time , but no one ever answered  

[68pplcharger]

 

[68X426]

Incredible that you heard back from Govier. 

So many of us do not. Even on the rare issues, like 999 and 99 99 cars.

I have worked to gather info on 68 Road Runners, 999 code, Petty Blue. I own one. I've met up with 2 other owners, Les in Michigan and Roy in Illinois.

We all have sent correspondence to GG and had no replies and only one quick phone conversation. He stated to Les that there was only one 68 RR 999 Petty Blue ever built (not just in his registry but ever built in 68). No name or location was provided. Well there are three of us who know that at least four 68s were built. I think GG just wants compensation for his info, we all see this as a hobby. I understand and accept the situation. Riffraf certainly scored.

In an earlier post I attached a pdf of the "Blues": Petty Blue compared to Corporate Blue. This time I added a imageshack pic. They are two different colors, the Petty has more white in it. Hopefully the difference shows up on the screen you're looking at. Several art designer friends (and Mopar addicts) worked on paint samples to get the colors correct (there is a lot of science behind the colors that go into paints).

To be very specific, the RGB color coding (in a Microsoft world) is R44-G103-B169 for Petty Blue and R38-G92-B154 for Corporate Blue. I don't know what this means to a paint manufacturer, or a CAD person, or Photoshop, or to us regular folks. I just wanted to point out that they are two different colors, and were that way in 1968 and 1969.

Hopefully everyone can keeping sharing what they know about 68-69-70 999 and 99 99 Mopars.

[tan top]

intresting stuff  ,  i never realised they were different  , , they look so different side by side !!  coporate blue looks dirtier , or greener my be  

[riffraf]

Incredible that you heard back from Govier. 

So many of us do not. Even on the rare issues, like 999 and 99 99 cars.

I have worked to gather info on 68 Road Runners, 999 code, Petty Blue. I own one. I've met up with 2 other owners, Les in Michigan and Roy in Illinois.

We all have sent correspondence to GG and had no replies and only one quick phone conversation. He stated to Les that there was only one 68 RR 999 Petty Blue ever built (not just in his registry but ever built in 68). No name or location was provided. Well there are three of us who know that at least four 68s were built. I think GG just wants compensation for his info, we all see this as a hobby. I understand and accept the situation. Riffraf certainly scored.

In an earlier post I attached a pdf of the "Blues": Petty Blue compared to Corporate Blue. This time I added a imageshack pic. They are two different colors, the Petty has more white in it. Hopefully the difference shows up on the screen you're looking at. Several art designer friends (and Mopar addicts) worked on paint samples to get the colors correct (there is a lot of science behind the colors that go into paints).

To be very specific, the RGB color coding (in a Microsoft world) is R44-G103-B169 for Petty Blue and R38-G92-B154 for Corporate Blue. I don't know what this means to a paint manufacturer, or a CAD person, or Photoshop, or to us regular folks. I just wanted to point out that they are two different colors, and were that way in 1968 and 1969.

Hopefully everyone can keeping sharing what they know about 68-69-70 999 and 99 99 Mopars.

Wow mate you have a petty blue 68 can you post some pics for me please i feel like an orphan
I will try and post Galens mail (so you guys know im lagit) and he didnt ask for money but i offered to pay if he can come up with a history and figures so lets see.
Craig

[Ghoste]

I don't think anyone disbelieves you so much as they are shocked by him for his out of character response

[ACUDANUT]

 Interesting point. This is our Hobby, and we don't charge for input or responses...Together we know more, than one man. 
And we get back with you.!

[riffraf]

I don't think anyone disbelieves you so much as they are shocked by him for his out of character response

I dont know much about the man and i appreciate his time so here is the mail i got FYI hope more to come

[Ghoste]

There is an important distinction in his e-mail that everyone seems to do to Galen (and I'll take his side very much on this).  You stated that he told you it's one of seven from the LA plant (which he did) but he also adds the words "that I have accounted for", and that part is important too.  When Galen gives out production numbers on certain combinations he typically means the number that he has personally verified, not the number that is written in stone as a sure production figure.
I realize that you were likely not trying to imply this either but I see so many people do it to Galen that I did feel the need to point it out.

[riffraf]

Yes Ghoste i realize that point i assumed he has accounted for the 7 from the L.A plant  he also said 2 other plants to account for as well thats why i mailed him back asking him for a total if he can find that magic number (in total) lets see shall we its starting to get interesting as when i started they didnt exist

[68X426]

Riffraf: I'll PM you, I don't want to hijack this thread. It should remain about your car and Petty Blue 99 99.

[69CoronetRT]

Yes Ghoste i realize that point i assumed he has accounted for the 7 from the L.A plant  he also said 2 other plants to account for as well thats why i mailed him back asking him for a total if he can find that magic number (in total)

Galen, nor probably anyone else, would not know that number as the production records by color for 69 and earlier either do not exist, they've never been found or they've never been released. You can only go by what he knows to exist. Someone else could know of 10-12 RR's in that color. They just don't publicize the data.

What he said is RR's were produced at two other plants. That only means other 99 paint RR's could have been produced at plants that made RR's. It doesn't mean they did or didn't. Relying on one man's work discounts other sources that may exist.

[riffraf]

Yes Ghoste i realize that point i assumed he has accounted for the 7 from the L.A plant  he also said 2 other plants to account for as well thats why i mailed him back asking him for a total if he can find that magic number (in total)

Galen, nor probably anyone else, would not know that number as the production records by color for 69 and earlier either do not exist, they've never been found or they've never been released. You can only go by what he knows to exist. Someone else could know of 10-12 RR's in that color. They just don't publicize the data.

What he said is RR's were produced at two other plants. That only means other 99 paint RR's could have been produced at plants that made RR's. It doesn't mean they did or didn't. Relying on one man's work discounts other sources that may exist.

I think you have missed the point here sunshine the question was did they produce them answer is yes im good with that.

[Tom Q]

See that "9" in the SO #??

From what I've seen, the LA plant was the only one that used the 925***, 926*** and 927*** VON code for 99 paint cars regularly yet they were not consistent in using the code the entire production year. While it is common to find the 92**** VON with 99 paint code cars from the LA plant, that procedure does not seem to carry over to St. Louis or Lynch Road. You can find 99 paint cars from those plants with regular VON numbers.

It's also interesitng to note that the 925 and 926 series VONs were used for Charger 500s and Daytonas. What's it mean? IDK. It's just one more piece of the VON assignment puzzle.

I have yet to find a spring special St Louis car that does not have the "9" in the SO#
My 69 RR is the first 99/Y39/9 VON tag seen by a collector of  them.

Here are some notes I have accumulated:


Spring Green was a mid year release and was coded 99, 97 or 97E depending on plant and time of year. Any non standard color, that is a color that was not specifically released for that particular make and model or cars that required special painting schemes, like a cop car, will code 99 (1969 code number).

There were some colors that received special coding such as Spring Green. Early on, it appears Spring Green was coded 99. All three plants used 99, 97 or 97E depending on the plant or time of year. Bahama Yellow coded 99 early in the year then later it codes 96. LA tended to use the 99 code while Lynch rd plants and ST Louis used 97 or 96 for Green and Yellow/Butterscotch.

Omaha Orange was coded 99 before the color was changed to K2. There is at least one 99 code blue car with a blue interior. What the orig color the car was actually painted is unknown.  Occasionally, really odd paint codes like 16 pop up.

V2 starts to show up on Super Bees in late March and on other Dodges a little later. It's been seen on 329 SPD A12 cars.  There were not A12 specific colors, with the exception of Butterscotch on A12 Super Bees. Of the  99 "normal" colors  petty blue is the least common.
Saint Louis Plant used 99, 97, and 97E for Rallye Green on the tags depending on Scheduled production date

STL was very hit and miss with Y codes...seeing Y39 on 69 STL car is a little unusual. Also the VON starts with 9, not common for STL 99 paint cars, so there most be some 'story' behind the car too. STL 99 paint cars did not normally receive- the special VON or Y39 code so I'm thinking there may be some other reason for the codes

LA used special VONs for 99 paint almost all model year (very common for LA) but St. Louis did not follow the same format. There also seems to be a high percentage of 99 cars from the LA plant compared to overall production and to other plants.  Y codes and specialty VONs are also not common on STL tags.



Orange (V2) and Bahama Yellow (96) followed in Dodge TSB D69-23-20. Bahama Yellow was originally meant for the "Super Bee Six Pack only." For Plymouth B-Bodies, Vitamin C Orange (K2) replaced Omaha Orange (999) on approximately February 1, 1969, as stated in TSB 69-23-18 of April 7, 1969. Depending on the circumstances, these '69 colors would be identified on the data plates as special order code 99. For example, Bahama Yellow was first catalogued for Plymouth B-Bodies in a bulletin dated January 22, 1969.

[69CoronetRT]

I think you have missed the point here sunshine the question was did they produce them answer is yes im good with that.

I didn't miss the point at all nor do I think anyone questioned the possibility they could have been available. I was responding to your post about a 'magic' number as it seems like you want to know an exact total of how many cars were produced in Petty blue at all of the plants. That's not possible to know.

We do know it's one of seven accounted for, not 'produced' at, from the LA plant.

[69CoronetRT]

I have yet to find a spring special St Louis car that does not have the "9" in the SO#
My 69 RR is the first 99/Y39/9 VON tag seen by a collector of  them.

Tom,

I've acquired a lot more tags since we conversed but, to date, your car is still the only 99/Y39/9 VON tag I have seen. There was something very different about your car.

[bill440cars]

 Say guys, I'm new here and actually found this place, because I was looking to find out what the paint code for "Petty" Blue was. I happened to have had a '69 road runner that was that color, from the factory too. I bought it in California (San Rafael) in the Spring of 1970 and it was a 1 owner car. Here is the best picture I have of it, as it has been gone for quite some time now. I have no record of what the VIN was, but it DID have a black vinyl top, black interior, the wide black racing stripes and the Air Grabber. Also had steel wheels and hubcaps (replaced those with E T Unilug wheels). Be checking in better tomorrow.

    Not a good picture by the way, sorry.

         


           

[Aero426]

Petty Blue is the color that Richard and Maurice Petty created in 1959, starting with their Grand National Plymouth Fury. They patented their color and Petty Racing owns the rights to the color. Chrysler paid royalties for its use.

Why would Chrysler pay royalties to the Pettys when Corporate Blue is so similar?   That does not make any sense.   My understanding is the production cars are Corporate Blue.   We just call them "Petty Blue".    Yes, the two colors are slightly different.    In fact there are slightly different versions of Petty Blue used on the race cars through the ages.   The trademarking thing took place in the modern era.

[moparstuart]

 Say guys, I'm new here and actually found this place, because I was looking to find out what the paint code for "Petty" Blue was. I happened to have had a '69 road runner that was that color, from the factory too. I bought it in California (San Rafael) in the Spring of 1970 and it was a 1 owner car. Here is the best picture I have of it, as it has been gone for quite some time now. I have no record of what the VIN was, but it DID have a black vinyl top, black interior, the wide black racing stripes and the Air Grabber. Also had steel wheels and hubcaps (replaced those with E T Unilug wheels). Be checking in better tomorrow.

    Not a good picture by the way, sorry.

         


           

welcome great back in the day photo   

[tan top]

 Say guys, I'm new here and actually found this place, because I was looking to find out what the paint code for "Petty" Blue was. I happened to have had a '69 road runner that was that color, from the factory too. I bought it in California (San Rafael) in the Spring of 1970 and it was a 1 owner car. Here is the best picture I have of it, as it has been gone for quite some time now. I have no record of what the VIN was, but it DID have a black vinyl top, black interior, the wide black racing stripes and the Air Grabber. Also had steel wheels and hubcaps (replaced those with E T Unilug wheels). Be checking in better tomorrow.

    Not a good picture by the way, sorry.

         


           

hello & welcome  , thanks for sharing the story & posting picture !! interesting stuff 

[bill440cars]

  Thanks guys, good to be here. Funny how I located you all, while looking for info on that color. Don't have any road runners now, but I DO have a '69 GTX though. I'll have to look for a proper place to post on that. I've had 2 '66 Chargers, but that was a long time ago. Main ride is an '07 Charger R/T with a few mods. I don't want to hijack this, so I'll look for a place to post more.   I DO need to locate proper i.d. for that paint though, as I have a '92 Dakota that is going to get a 440 6pack (already have the engine, trans, manifold & carbs) and I want to paint it Petty Blue with some black accenting.

[Howie]

Thats just what I bought. Its 96 and the only option it has is pwr steering. is a  petty blue. 2 dr post 383 4 speed 391 rear.  Last registered march of 1981.

[Howie]

Sorry its a 69.  Larry bought the other car the guy had which was orange 2dr hdtp 383 4 speed numbers matching.

[Ghoste]

A recent buy?

[hemi-hampton]

Why you sorry it's a 69

[68X426]

Why you sorry it's a 69

He wrote a typo error in the post and said it was a 96.

Or ....... he knows that '68s RRs are the killer ap. 

[Ghoste]

I prefer the 68 myself in the road runners. 

[ACUDANUT]

I prefer the 70. 

[Ghoste]

Oh yeah I love the 70 model too.  I'm splitting hairs here of course because I like them all but there is something primitive and pure about the 68 that I love and something stylish and sexy about 70.  The 69 falls somewhere between for me in the Plymouth and I end up liking the bookends better.

[6bblgt]

The Petty Blue/basin street blue/super blue paint formula dates to 1963 (TB3) just like musclecar era "black" (TX9).

Here's a "999" '64 HEMI Plymouth Savoy.

[Howie]

I don't know a whole lot about my car except that it was in a guys collection for the longest time. When I picked it up there was no engine or trans.  The vynel top had been removed. Is a bench seat 4 speed 2 door post with pwr steering and vinl top that was removed along with having a 3:91 posi rear end.

Howie

[69hurstsc]

Do you have the build sheet Howie?

Thats just what I bought. Its 96 and the only option it has is pwr steering. is a  petty blue. 2 dr post 383 4 speed 391 rear.  Last registered march of 1981.