Muscle Car Wars: Camaro outsells Mustang & Challenger for the 4th month in a row

[68charger383]

Saw this on CarDomain and thought it was interesting.

http://jalopnik.com/5372872/camaro-beats-crap-out-of-mustang-challenger-for-fourth-straight-month.\

In a way its sad annual sales for all three, especially considering past production numbers.  They are only selling about 90,000 camaros, 70,000 mustangs and 13,000 challengers a year.

I think they sold 90,000 chargers alone in 1968.

I remember Chrysler saying in 2008 that they would be producing 35,000 Challengers a year. It also explains why challengers aren't seen on the road as often.

[ZSmithersCharges]

I knew that was going to happen... have you seen the stats on the three?  For the price you can get an SS Camaro ready to rock and only get a baseline of the others for the same money.  Chevy has outdone themselves on this one and regretfully I have to say Chrysler's performance on the new challenger is lacking in comparison to the others.  I have a magazine somewhere here with the numbers and everything but this is all just off the top of my head for now. The basic figures go like this Camaro=Cheap/Fast Mustang=Light/Underpowered Challenger=Overpriced/Morbidly Obese.

[Mike DC]

The modern Chally basically occupies a different class than the other two IMHO.  It's more like what the old B-body Chargers were back in the day.  All three have more luxury than they used to, but the Chally is really huge.  It's a midsize sedan more than a ponycar.   

[Charger440RDN]

To me the challenger is way too heavy and tall to be a sporty car. I was stopped next to one in town last week at a red light and this thing was really big, it was almost as tall as the mini van in front of it. 

[1969chargerrtse]

I think the new Camaro is cool looking.  Mustang's have had the lead for so long, you can only sell so many.

[73chgrSE]

I see more new challys than new mustangs or camaros lately. i think ive only seen 3 new camaros on the road.

[Mike DC]

   

I gotta give the Mustang credit for being reasonably lightweight.  That's extremely difficult to do in this day and age.  People gripe about stuff like the live axle & the small motor but that stuff pays dividends on the scale.  

 

[Landonsrt]

The modern Chally basically occupies a different class than the other two IMHO.  It's more like what the old B-body Chargers were back in the day.  All three have more luxury than they used to, but the Chally is really huge.  It's a midsize sedan more than a ponycar.  

Yeah it is. Just a two door charger!
I test drove a new 6speed SS yesturday. I was impressed. The only downside to the car is the roof line is so freaking low. I'm 6'2 and have to sit with the seat all the way back. And still almost touching the roof!

[mopar_nut_440_6]

In my neck of the woods the Chrysler dealership appears to think the Challenger is it and they do not deal or make it affordable if you can even get one! IMHO I would buy the Camaro as it out performs the other "pony cars" and costs 10000 less than the Challenger. The dealership in Prince George BC SUCKS!

[Back N Black]

Its the same as back in the 60's and 70's, Chevy's always out sold the Mopar,  the dealerships couldn't give away a 69 Daytona. 

[TUFCAT]

If I didn't have a new baby coming in two weeks, I'd be ....actually my wife would be.... driving a 2010 Mustang instead of a Fusion right now (she works at Ford)....

Now I'll be waiting a long time.

[mopar_nut_440_6]

If I didn't have a new baby coming in two weeks, I'd be ....actually my wife would be.... driving a 2010 Mustang instead of a Fusion right now (she works at Ford)....

Now I'll be waiting a long time.

Congrats on the new arrival!

[resq302]

You really can't compare this year of those 3 cars to each other.  First off, the camaro is the newest out of all 3.  Maybe if you took the numbers from the first year production for each car, then you would get a more accurate number.  Look at how many new body style mustangs were sold, compare that to the new model camaro and the first year chally.  Maybe then you can have some better numbers for comparison. 

BTW - my  , never own the camaro, think its too ugly.  Challenger is the best looking of the 3 however, with Chrysler not budging on the price, I'd settle for the next best..... the mustang but only in a 'vert.

[jaak]

I don't understand why...if its based on looks.
Im not just saying this because I am a Mopar guy.....maybe the new Camaro has good performance and pricing, but when it comes to the look/design of it...I really think GM dropped the ball. That is one of the ugliest looking cars I have seen, I love the retro look of the Mustangs and Challengers. I personally would rather have a new Charger over the new Camaro.

Jason

[jaak]

I don't understand why...if its based on looks.
Im not just saying this because I am a Mopar guy.....maybe the new Camaro has good performance and pricing, but when it comes to the look/design of it...I really think GM dropped the ball. That is one of the ugliest looking cars I have seen, I love the retro look of the Mustangs and Challengers. I personally would rather have a new Charger over the new Camaro.

Jason

[Charger440RDN]

I think the challenger is the best looking of the 3 pony cars, but chrysler screwed up by having it share a platform with the charger, a FULL SIZE FAMILY SEDAN!! The challenger is just a little to large right now, that is the only drawback. When they redesign it, the chally needs to have it's own platform and lose about 800lbs.

I know back in 1970 the first challenger shared the B-body platform and it was also bigger than the camaro & mustang even then. The only advantage is that tall people like me, 6ft 2' can fit in it, I do like that.

[Ponch ®]

BTW - my  , never own the camaro, think its too ugly.  Challenger is the best looking of the 3 however, with Chrysler not budging on the price, I'd settle for the next best..... the mustang but only in a 'vert.

I agree that the Challenger is the best looking of the three (surprise surprise in a mopar site  ), but really, the mustang? I think it's the ugliest one of the three. At least the 2010's. The 05-09 stangs are decent looking, but the new ones are heinous. They look like an overgrown Hyundai tiburon or one of those cars.

[ZSmithersCharges]

BTW - my  , never own the camaro, think its too ugly.  Challenger is the best looking of the 3 however, with Chrysler not budging on the price, I'd settle for the next best..... the mustang but only in a 'vert.

I agree that the Challenger is the best looking of the three (surprise surprise in a mopar site  ), but really, the mustang? I think it's the ugliest one of the three. At least the 2010's. The 05-09 stangs are decent looking, but the new ones are heinous. They look like an overgrown Hyundai tiburon or one of those cars.

I think the front on them is OK as they didn't change it too much... but I think your right on the tail lights. I looks like they had toyota come redesign them.

[Ponch ®]

I think the challenger is the best looking of the 3 pony cars, but chrysler screwed up by having it share a platform with the charger, a FULL SIZE FAMILY SEDAN!! 

like that's anything new tho. I mean, our beloved Chargers shared a platform with this, for goodness sake!

[Charger440RDN]

I think the challenger is the best looking of the 3 pony cars, but chrysler screwed up by having it share a platform with the charger, a FULL SIZE FAMILY SEDAN!! 

like that's anything new tho. I mean, our beloved Chargers shared a platform with this, for goodness sake!

I guess it's just history repeating it self all over again then.  The good thing is that a family of 4 can fit in the challenger, the back seat in the camaro and stang are just decoration pieces.

[resq302]

BTW - my  , never own the camaro, think its too ugly.  Challenger is the best looking of the 3 however, with Chrysler not budging on the price, I'd settle for the next best..... the mustang but only in a 'vert.

I agree that the Challenger is the best looking of the three (surprise surprise in a mopar site  ), but really, the mustang? I think it's the ugliest one of the three. At least the 2010's. The 05-09 stangs are decent looking, but the new ones are heinous. They look like an overgrown Hyundai tiburon or one of those cars.

True about the redesigned 2010 stangs.  I do like the 05-09 models though.  You are right, the tail ends don't do it for me.

I think the front on them is OK as they didn't change it too much... but I think your right on the tail lights. I looks like they had toyota come redesign them.

[Troy]

I don't understand why...if its based on looks.
Im not just saying this because I am a Mopar guy.....maybe the new Camaro has good performance and pricing, but when it comes to the look/design of it...I really think GM dropped the ball. That is one of the ugliest looking cars I have seen, I love the retro look of the Mustangs and Challengers. I personally would rather have a new Charger over the new Camaro.

Jason

I think the challenger is the best looking of the 3 pony cars, but chrysler screwed up by having it share a platform with the charger, a FULL SIZE FAMILY SEDAN!! The challenger is just a little to large right now, that is the only drawback. When they redesign it, the chally needs to have it's own platform and lose about 800lbs.

I know back in 1970 the first challenger shared the B-body platform and it was also bigger than the camaro & mustang even then. The only advantage is that tall people like me, 6ft 2' can fit in it, I do like that.

It's all personal preference. I happen to like the looks of the Camaro and Mustang (2005-2009) but I hate the size of the Challenger. The 1970 E Body cars did share a lot with the B Body cars but they weren't the same platform (they were shorter).

Troy

[bull]

In a way its sad annual sales for all three, especially considering past production numbers.  They are only selling about 90,000 camaros, 70,000 mustangs and 13,000 challengers a year.

I think they sold 90,000 chargers alone in 1968.

Pretty close. It was actually 96,100 which was almost three times the 35,000-unit projection. Looks like it went the other way with the Challenger. Well, it serves them right for pricing them as a collector car and having the dealers mark them up even more. What does the Camaro cost by comparison?

[Charger440RDN]

I think the V6 camaro starts at 21-22K plus you get 300 hp from the v6, a lot more bang for the buck compared to the others. The v6 is what most teenagers and young adults can afford, so I'm not surprised at the sales numbers.

Plus 300hp is more than enough power to win most everyday street races. Not sure what the torque is on the v6 though.

[bull]

I think the V6 camaro starts at 21-22K plus you get 300 hp from the v6, a lot more bang for the buck compared to the others. The v6 is what most teenagers and young people can afford so I'm not surprised at the sales numbers.

Plus 300hp is more than enough power to win most everyday street races. Not sure what the torque is on the v6 though.

And aren't they asking for $30k+ for the V6 Challengers?

[68charger383]

I think you can get the SS Camaro, equivalent to the perfromance of the SRT8, for the price of the Challenger R/T $32,000-$36,000. The SRT8 is $42,000-$46,000.

[Landonsrt]

I test drove a 2SS Camaro tuesday. It had leather, premium stereo, 6 speed manual, HID headlamps with halos. Brembo brakes, special edition wheels, sunroof, extra gauge cluster in the console. Pretty much all options. Sticker price was $36,900.00 with a $2,000.00 dealer mark up. So $38K. Why pay extra for a heavier, slower car??

[ZSmithersCharges]

This about sums it up, these prices are in the build your own sections of the respective automakers web pages.  None of these prices are with extra options just base models of the different selections add about $1000 for shipping to your dealership to all prices and there you have it.  Camaro wins flat out.

Camaro Pricing:

LS
304-hp 3.6L V6 engine
EPA est. 29 MPG hwy.2
18-inch Heritage steel wheels
StabiliTrak with traction control
     MSRP¹: Starting at $22,680  

Camaro 1LT
Foglamps.
6-way power driver seat.
18-inch painted-aluminum wheels
     MSRP¹: Starting at $23,880  

Camaro 2LT
19" painted aluminum wheels.
Leather-appointed seats with heated
Boston Acoustic® premium nine-speaker sound system
     MSRP¹: Starting at $26,875  

Camaro 1SS
4 piston Brembo® brakes.
426-hp 6.2L V82
20-inch Sterling Silver painted aluminum wheels3
     MSRP¹: Starting at $30,745  

Camaro 2SS
Leather-apppointed seats with heated front seats
Bluetooth® wireless technology4
4 pack auxiliary gauge cluster.
USB port
     MSRP¹: Starting at $33,745

Dodge Challenger Pricing:
   
   SE E Package   $22,945
   SE G Package   $25,740
   R/T F Package   $30,945
   R/T J Package   $32,880
   R/T Classic   $34,405
   SRT8   $42,645

[Landonsrt]

Went by a dodge dealership before we went to look at the Camaros. They had a used R/T challenger with 10K asking $36,000. All dodge dealers are on crack! They had a classic Challenger in the showroom asking $38,000!

[ZSmithersCharges]

I don't know why Chrysler doesn't impose a maximum price policy that only lets them go an approved amount of the sticker price like other automakers.  It doesn't just hurt the dealership to overprice obviously it hurts the automakers too.  Less sold by dealers less sold overall. 

On another note the sticker on a GTR is 72k our local dealer wanted 112k... the one up the street from them was selling for sticker price... some dealerships just have NO BRAINS.

[Ponch ®]

So are camaros being marked up too?

[bull]

So are camaros being marked up too?

A few posts above it says they mark the Camaro up by $2,000. The dealer markup on the Challenger is typically quite a bit more than that from what I've seen. Plus the base price is higher.

[JT01]

Ive had 12 camaros and my favorite are the 70-73s not much of a fan of the 67-69s because there are so many but anyway i hate to rag on the new camaro I personally dont like it and I dont know how they could outsell the mustang because all the Chevy lots sround my area cant get rid of them and when I look at camaros on ebay there are so many new ones on there that are not selling.

[Charger440RDN]

Ive had 12 camaros and my favorite are the 70-73s not much of a fan of the 67-69s because there are so many but anyway i hate to rag on the new camaro I personally dont like it and I dont know how they could outsell the mustang because all the Chevy lots sround my area cant get rid of them and when I look at camaros on ebay there are so many new ones on there that are not selling.

It's the complete opposite where I'm at, the chevy dealership has had 2 camaros since they came out and the dodge dealership has had maybe 3. Kind of weird, as the best Chevy, the lots should be overflowing with them. I think I read something where GM doesn't want to flood the market with camaros to keep demand up. I guess maybe that only applies to certain areas of the country.

[1969chargerrtse]

I don't understand why...if its based on looks.
Im not just saying this because I am a Mopar guy.....maybe the new Camaro has good performance and pricing, but when it comes to the look/design of it...I really think GM dropped the ball. That is one of the ugliest looking cars I have seen, I love the retro look of the Mustangs and Challengers. I personally would rather have a new Charger over the new Camaro.

Jason

I think the challenger is the best looking of the 3 pony cars, but chrysler screwed up by having it share a platform with the charger, a FULL SIZE FAMILY SEDAN!! The challenger is just a little to large right now, that is the only drawback. When they redesign it, the chally needs to have it's own platform and lose about 800lbs.

I know back in 1970 the first challenger shared the B-body platform and it was also bigger than the camaro & mustang even then. The only advantage is that tall people like me, 6ft 2' can fit in it, I do like that.

It's all personal preference. I happen to like the looks of the Camaro and Mustang (2005-2009) but I hate the size of the Challenger. The 1970 E Body cars did share a lot with the B Body cars but they weren't the same platform (they were shorter).

Troy

[bull]

I think I read something where GM doesn't want to flood the market with camaros to keep demand up.

If that were true the demand for the new Challenger would be huge.

[Landonsrt]

So are camaros being marked up too?

A few posts above it says they mark the Camaro up by $2,000. The dealer markup on the Challenger is typically quite a bit more than that from what I've seen. Plus the base price is higher.

I was told by the salesman that that dealer marks everyone up $2000. Some dealers may charge more but that was their standard. That was at Rick Hendrick Chevrolet.

[ZSmithersCharges]

So are camaros being marked up too?

A few posts above it says they mark the Camaro up by $2,000. The dealer markup on the Challenger is typically quite a bit more than that from what I've seen. Plus the base price is higher.

I was told by the salesman that that dealer marks everyone up $2000. Some dealers may charge more but that was their standard. That was at Rick Hendrick Chevrolet.

Its to pay for the shipping and the pre sale maintanence that they do to the cars which includes detailing in most cases, fluid fills and just standard checks to make sure everything is functioning properly.  Every dealership marks them up to pay for that and the ones that dont include it in the price or take it as a loss to sell the car.

[Landonsrt]

no, thats called a dock fee. Thats not why they are marking them up the extra $2,000. PDI charges are usually around $500.00.

[ZSmithersCharges]

no, thats called a dock fee. Thats not why they are marking them up the extra $2,000. PDI charges are usually around $500.00.

Well you just said they were tacking on 2000 dollars not what it was called  so I gave you my input Hmm well then I guess ill default to my original deffense answer, "Yo dog we gotta eat too!"  Either way there not asking for half as much as Dodge so I'm not really going to fault them.  Its still an affordable sports car for the guy whos not a doctor and I can appreciate that.  Just wish Dodge was on the same page like they used to be with the Challenger:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZwUsAd5_yQ.

[Landonsrt]

I completely agree that its cheaper. They can call it a destination charge or whatever. Bottom line is they (dodge and chevrolet) are marking them up because of demand! I just dont see the point of price gouging the challenger as much as they have.

[ZSmithersCharges]

I completely agree that its cheaper. They can call it a destination charge or whatever. Bottom line is they (dodge and chevrolet) are marking them up because of demand! I just dont see the point of price gouging the challenger as much as they have.

[Charger440RDN]

I really hope they increase production of the Challenger because you never know when this Chrysler-Fiat fiasco is going to end. Then the whole company may be gone. They need to get as many of these Challengers on the lots as possible. To compete with the camaro they have to come down on the prices of the SRT models.

[ZSmithersCharges]

I really hope they increase production of the Challenger because you never know when this Chrysler-Fiat fiasco is going to end. Then the whole company may be gone. They need to get as many of these Challengers on the lots as possible. To compete with the camaro they have to come down on the prices of the SRT models.

The prices I posted on the SRT8's was from their site, so not far enough 

[68charger383]

Challenger was second to hit the street. They had the new car appeal over the mustang and could get away with the false collector BS that they did in 2008 to mark up the cars. In 2009 until the Camaro came out, they could have continued the unrealistic price that they are charging.

Once the Camaro came out, they should have or most businesses would have dropped the prices of the challenger to under cut the price of the new Camaro. Unless they are making a killing on the cars at their current prices, the sales volume between the other cars in the same market shows the challengers are way overpriced. Since sales are so low, it is almost required that they drop the price to try and increase demand.