Was the hemi dart the fastest 1/4 mile production car ever produced?

[superbirdtom]

I got into it with some chebby guys the other day as they were all talking about the new drag racing strip here and how no mopars ever show up. anyway i said I don't race junk and got em all worked up. then I said hey whats the fastest quarter mile car you could go down and order from your local chrysler dodge plymouth dealer?

                                              The cobra dude says it was a such and such vette with a 427 dohc  yadda yadda this and that. then another dude says no it was an olds 455 sd ,then another says no you could order a cobra with a 427 side oiler and it was definetly the fastest . I said no your all wrong.  they gasped! and said  well which car was it. I said a hemi dart. this caused them to go completely nuts . I said yes you could actually order a hemi dart and it did sub 11 second quarters right outa the box.  Now  my question is this , I don't think that the ac cobra was considered a stock car . but I believe the dart was considered a stock car. could the experts put this to rest.

                     What is considered a stock car??  how can I win my argument with neanderthals.    Thanks  Tom

[Ghoste]

No expert but I'll offer my opinion.  The AC Cobra and the Hemi Dart were both somewhat one offs.  The Cobra was a specialty car thrown together by Shelby American with limited availability.  The Hemi Dart started at Dodge but then went to Hurst for conversion.  It was a run of less than a hundred in order to qualify it for super stock drag racing.  It wasn't street legal and I believe the first 50 were all sent to specific racers so it wasn't as though you could go to Barney Fife Dodge in downtown Mayberry and order one up.
Personally my idea of stock production cars leaves a lot of the one off specialty cars (and COPOs) off the list.  And my personal experience of the ones that are left on the list is that any of them are capable of beating one another on a given day.

[Todd Wilson]

If my memory serves me correctly the 1968 Hemi Barricuda holds the top 1/4 mile spot for Super Stock and the 68 Hemi Dart was like a 10th of a second slower.



Todd

[Ghoste]

But are they truly production cars?

[68X426]

The age old story is that it was the 68 Hemi Barracuda that was the fastest, and closest to stock, and genuine assembly line production. I understand that a Cuda could be bought in Mayberry completely bare bones with only a race Hemi and race suspension. And it would do sub 11s off the show room floor. 

I wouldn't be picking on Barney by the way.

[Ghoste]

Lol, love that pic.   As for the other part, I know it makes me a Mopar heretic but I guess when I think of stock production vehicles I think of cars that could at least potentially be ordered through any dealer and be street legal.

[SeattleCharger]

 

[Road Dog]

454 AND Z06 Vettes were 10.6 to 10.89 1/4 mile. Darts and Barracudas were 10.3 to 10.5. Stage 2 Buick was High 10's. I remember a guy ran a Stock Shelby 427 Cobra with Slicks 10.4.

[1969chargerrtse]

I saw an article way back when and what won the 1/4 mile stock production car race was ......................... this big 421ci bonneville.  I kid you not.

[Road Dog]

Fella in High School had a 65 Catalina 2+2 withe the 421 and it was brutally fast.

[Todd Wilson]

But are they truly production cars?

Another question to throw in to the pile is...........The Cobra and Corvette are not muscle cars to me. They are both sports cars  yet they always seem to get thrown into the muscle car category.


So are they muscle cars or sports cars?


Todd

[Ghoste]

I don't consider a Stage 2 Buick to be stock production either since the handful of parts made to convert the car were only available through the parts counter for you to do yourself.  I also put very very little faith in magazine road test results.  The guys that wrote those articles all freely admit today that it was very common to just make up the times.  I pretty much need to witness the run myself and anytime I see one of the 60's musclecars get into the 12 second zone I get very suspect about it's stock status.  I think you'd be hard pressed to find a genuinely stock Vette of any stripe running well into the tens.
Again though, that's just me.

[Rolling_Thunder]

cobra / vettes = Sports cars... 

If you want a list of cars actually testes by the magazines back when - here you go....     Remove the Cobra, Vette, Vipers...     so #1 is a Road Runner

http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/4067/50fastest.htm

[Ghoste]

And btw, we are all on the same page about this being the oldest bench race since 2 cave men began bragging around the watering rock about who was faster and that in all these centuries the question has yet to be decided, right?  So this is all in fun cuz we're all pals here. (I've seen more than a couple of these things get ugly and personal  )

[SeattleCharger]

cobra / vettes = Sports cars... 

If you want a list of cars actually testes by the magazines back when - here you go....     Remove the Cobra, Vette, Vipers...     so #1 is a Road Runner

http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/4067/50fastest.htm

hmm, not quite the 11's 12's stated before.    looks like the advantage the roadrunner had over many others was the 4:10 rear end     

[1969chargerrtse]

And btw, we are all on the same page about this being the oldest bench race since 2 cave men began bragging around the watering rock about who was faster and that in all these centuries the question has yet to be decided, right?  So this is all in fun cuz we're all pals here. (I've seen more than a couple of these things get ugly and personal  )

Gee I'd like to believe we can have a simple discssion?
As for the vette cobra sports car thing?  That's why I sold my vette to buy the ultimate muscle car. I was not a " vette " guy, I was a muscle car guy that owned a vette, and even though the vette was one of the best and coolest cars I ever had, it wasn't me, like the Charger is. I always say, when I had the vette I waved to vette guys, with the Charger everybody waves including vette guys.  
What about the LS6 Chevelle?  It think they were all stupid fast, it was really all about traction on those bias ply skinny tires.  

[Cooter]

We get into this every other cruise night/car show...Chevy Vs Ford Vs Mopar, who was the fastest production car...Well, I don't think the HEMI Dart/Barracudas, the REALLY FAST SPECIALTY Vettes, OR the A/C Cobras were Production cars. All of them had RACE ONLY parts that you CANNOT and will NOT drive as you would a PRODUCTION car...Whether it be suspension, engine didn't come in the car (big block Ford in a go-kart -A/C Cobra, Saleen Mustangs). Also, Any Production car that costs more than my house, to me isn't a "real car guys" "production" car..It has become a Super car for the rich..Now you can look at this one of two different ways here...Either I have one helluva cheap house, or you bought one helluv-an expensive car...

To me, Anybody that can take a real production car and invest around $10-15K in it, (Purchase Price included) and run in the 10's deserves a medal, cause I've tried it and it is very hard to do...

[Todd Wilson]

My dad has sinced passed away but he was heavy into Mopars and street racing back in the day during the 60's. He always said  and some of his freinds have said since as I still talk to them on occasion  stock vs stock the Mopars were hard to beat on the street. The Chevy guys would do a little work and then they could beat a stock Mopar.  On any given day any of them can get beat but its consistancy that I feel really sets the who is faster then who and the Mopars do that all the way. The record books and time listings show that.


Todd

[LeadfootBob]

I don't consider a Stage 2 Buick to be stock production either since the handful of parts made to convert the car were only available through the parts counter for you to do yourself.  I also put very very little faith in magazine road test results.  The guys that wrote those articles all freely admit today that it was very common to just make up the times.  I pretty much need to witness the run myself and anytime I see one of the 60's musclecars get into the 12 second zone I get very suspect about it's stock status.  I think you'd be hard pressed to find a genuinely stock Vette of any stripe running well into the tens.
Again though, that's just me.

Concur, and in addition the article with the '69 1/2 Road Runner Sixpack (the magazine escapes me) dropping into the twelves had A: Ronnie Sox driving and B: some serious tweaking done to the engine... I can hear the bells from over here 

An interesting roundup was done in a TV show called "musclecar shootout" (previously available on youtube, copyrighting took it down), in one segment they ran all the cars down the quarter with period-correct tires. Which sled won? The Buick GS 455, just barely into the twelves. The Mr. Norm Superbee had the best 60-foot but dropped off a tad on the top-end and came in third, IIRC.

[bigred68]

 Not to take ANYTHING away from our beloved muscle cars of any make or model but...
What about the new cars? What about the new Challenger srt, Viper,  Camaro SS, Mustang gt, etc?
What about the so-called super cars that are "mass" produced like Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bugatti?
What about the kinda' normal everyday drivers like some Lexus cars, Nissan cars, Honda cars, Subaru cars?
What about the GMC Typhoon/Cyclone trucks What about the Cadillac CTV-S?
Only for the sake of argument (because I have NOT done my homework on this YET) but, aren't MOST of the even most mundane daily drivers of today faster in the quarter mile than our fantastic and beloved muscle cars of the day? Maybe faster than even the smallest lightest MoPar with the elephant motor?
Looky Looky, Linky Linky!! Hemi Dart right near the top of the page!!
http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm

[Ghoste]

I don't know if I would go so far as to say that MOST of the even most mundane daily cars of today could spank them but certainly some of them can.

[bigred68]

Agreed!!
http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm

[ZSmithersCharges]

Agreed!!
http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm

That list is not complete but definitely an eye opener 

[Rolling_Thunder]

incomplete list for sure...    but nice to see S/S mopars up there with million dollar cars...     I'm suprise the Hennessey Venom 1000 isnt on that list...    I mean Shelby is on there - why not other performance shop cars ?       The Venom does the 1/4 between 10.5 and 9.8 - I've heard numbers all between there...   

just saying...   

[hemi-hampton]

The VECTOR is the fastest    LEON.

[1969chargerrtse]

Just wait until electric cars are main stream. They will make all gas powered cars a slow thing of the past. I saw a electric powered Corolla blow away a hypo BMW and Vette on You Tube. Imagine the snap and power of a huge skill saw motor on all 4 wheels. It'll be like giant size slot car spinning all the way down  the track.

[ZSmithersCharges]

Just wait until electric cars are main stream. They will make all gas powered cars a slow thing of the past. I saw a electric powered Corolla blow away a hypo BMW and Vette on You Tube. Imagine the snap and power of a huge skill saw motor on all 4 wheels. It'll be like giant size slot car spinning all the way down  the track.

Might have to convert the charger 

[73chgrSE]

Does anyone here know just how many of those barracudas were originally produced with hemis?

[68charger383]

An interesting roundup was done in a TV show called "musclecar shootout" (previously available on youtube, copyrighting took it down), in one segment they ran all the cars down the quarter with period-correct tires. Which sled won? The Buick GS 455, just barely into the twelves.

I remember this was a big discussion in the magazines back in the early 90s. The fastest production car was the Buick GSX which beat out all the other production cars including hemi cudas and LS6 chevelles.

[Cooter]

Does anyone here know just how many of those barracudas were originally produced with hemis?

The numbers break down somethin' like dis'.....51 Barracudas and like 50 Darts....There weren't many NON street leagal cars being sold and therefore, not alot were produced by Hurst...

[FJ5WING]

I question the ability of the '68 SS cars to compete because I believe they we delivered on skinny lil tires out back.
Someone can clear this up for me I will not be offended if Im wrong.

[73chgrSE]

Does anyone here know just how many of those barracudas were originally produced with hemis?

The numbers break down somethin' like dis'.....51 Barracudas and like 50 Darts....There weren't many NON street leagal cars being sold and therefore, not alot were produced by Hurst...

Of those 51 hemi barracudas, how many were notchbacks? that has to be the rarest of the rare....

[lisiecki1]

are the cudas everyone is bringing up the "Mr. 5 and 50" cudas that could be factory ordered?  That came with acid-dipped sheetmetal and no seam filler and the seats not bolted in, and a suggested launch tag that recommended you run the car up to 6500 in neutral and drop it into first when the light went green?

[ZSmithersCharges]

are the cudas everyone is bringing up the "Mr. 5 and 50" cudas that could be factory ordered?  That came with acid-dipped sheetmetal and no seam filler and the seats not bolted in, and a suggested launch tag that recommended you run the car up to 6500 in neutral and drop it into first when the light went green?

Thats sweet 

[mauve66]

are the cudas everyone is bringing up the "Mr. 5 and 50" cudas that could be factory ordered?  That came with acid-dipped sheetmetal and no seam filler and the seats not bolted in, and a suggested launch tag that recommended you run the car up to 6500 in neutral and drop it into first when the light went green?

several people lost feet from doing that too

the problem with alot of cars that CAN run good nowadays is that they have no personality or SOUL when compared to older cars

[SeattleCharger]

are the cudas everyone is bringing up the "Mr. 5 and 50" cudas that could be factory ordered?  That came with acid-dipped sheetmetal and no seam filler and the seats not bolted in, and a suggested launch tag that recommended you run the car up to 6500 in neutral and drop it into first when the light went green?

several people lost feet from doing that too

the problem with alot of cars that CAN run good nowadays is that they have no personality or SOUL when compared to older cars

speaking of SOUL,  (and powerful cars)  as written by the Pope   (check out #5  )

 
       The 10 commandments for driving written by Vatican.

The "Drivers' Ten Commandments," listed in the document:

1. You shall not kill.

2. The road shall be for you a means of communion between people and not of mortal harm.

3. Courtesy, uprightness and prudence will help you deal with unforeseen events.

4. Be charitable and help your neighbor in need, especially victims of accidents.

5. Cars shall not be for you an expression of power and domination, and an occasion of sin.

6. Charitably convince the young and not so young not to drive when they are not in a fitting condition to do so.

7. Support the families of accident victims.

8. Bring guilty motorists and their victims together, at the appropriate time, so that they can undergo the liberating experience of forgiveness.

9. On the road, protect the more vulnerable party.

10. Feel responsible toward others.

[mauve66]

yeah yeah, and a car that sits HIM upright higher than everything with a bullet proof bubble isn't..................

5. Cars shall not be for you an expression of power and domination,

[SeattleCharger]

yeah yeah, and a car that sits HIM upright higher than everything with a bullet proof bubble isn't..................

5. Cars shall not be for you an expression of power and domination,

good point     

[73chgrSE]

the pope looks like the empreor from star wars.

[Khyron]

after reading all this superbirdtom , I have one thing that will shut your friends up and end the problem, next time they go chevy this and ford that and mopar this...

Unzip your pants, drop touser, flop it on the table and just say... "fine, lets just end this here, whip it out"

It's nothing but a penis contest, I don't care how fast the car is, if the driver doesn't know what he's doing .. the car isn't winning crap

No one races numbers on paper, people race cars! :

[superbirdtom]

I haden't read what i started till today. WOW!  when i lived in van nuys ca, a fella who raced against Dick Landy and such told me that in fact he went to the local dodge dealership and ordered a hemi dart, of course it had to go to a mythical place to have all the conversions done but the fact was he didn't go to hurst to order the car he ordered it right from the dealer. so to me that makes it a production car. just because 20k of them were not ordered does not change that fact. I just wanted some old time racers to chide in and tell me of the memories of how these cars got into peoples hands and who they paid for them ?

                                         Did they pull out the greenbacks and give them to the dealership or did they give the greenbacks to hurst?   and where was this place that all the hemi darts and cudas were converted ? kinda like the creative industries deal with the wing cars.

[Doright]

I haden't read what i started till today. WOW!  when i lived in van nuys ca, a fella who raced against Dick Landy and such told me that in fact he went to the local dodge dealership and ordered a hemi dart, of course it had to go to a mythical place to have all the conversions done but the fact was he didn't go to hurst to order the car he ordered it right from the dealer. so to me that makes it a production car. just because 20k of them were not ordered does not change that fact.

There you go! You could get any thing you wanted from Ma Mopar as long as you had the CASH!!!!!!!!!!!!! They didnt care then and they dont care today!  same holds true today you just have to talk with the right salesman!

Back to the original question
Wow as long as we are including these super limited production cars wich I love in my dreams what about the little AMC? the HURST SC/Rambler     http://www.amazingmusclecars.com/1512registry/registry_pages/factory_literature.php

[Bob]

I haden't read what i started till today. WOW!  when i lived in van nuys ca, a fella who raced against Dick Landy and such told me that in fact he went to the local dodge dealership and ordered a hemi dart, of course it had to go to a mythical place to have all the conversions done but the fact was he didn't go to hurst to order the car he ordered it right from the dealer. so to me that makes it a production car. just because 20k of them were not ordered does not change that fact.

There you go! You could get any thing you wanted from Ma Mopar as long as you had the CASH!!!!!!!!!!!!! They didnt care then and they dont care today!  same holds true today you just have to talk with the right salesman!

Back to the original question
Wow as long as we are including these super limited production cars wich I love in my dreams what about the little AMC? the HURST SC/Rambler     http://www.amazingmusclecars.com/1512registry/registry_pages/factory_literature.php

There is a HURST SC/Rambler in my area. Awesome car.

[superbirdtom]

these were one of my favorite cars. I had never heard of the hurst scrambler though. I will have to study all about them and then when I am talking to the chevy guys I will bring this little rascal up.    so I am safe to say that the barracudas and hemi darts probably were the fastest car you could go down to your dealer and order.

[Brock Samson]

 little known fact is they came in two different color schemes...

this blue rocker version is the rarest...






here's the one most folks see and remember...



I remember seeing one of these when i was a kid of 12 brand new on the street and someone hailed it thinking it was a Cab..

                     

[Charger440RDN]

Anyone have a picture of a black 69-70 Dart with black wheels, hood scoop and roll cage. I saw a picture of one like that on Ebay once and it had a Hemi in it.

[SeattleCharger]

this dart sounded good, don't know what engine size, it was the lady's car that is walking in front of it

[b5blue]

On the Rambler thing...didn't they make a "Rebel Yell" drag car also?

[Charger440RDN]

this dart sounded good, don't know what engine size, it was the lady's car that is walking in front of it

That car is sweet!!!!!  Never was a huge Dart fan because I'm tall and the B-Body fits me better but I would find a way to fit behind the wheel and drive the hell out of this.

[Ghoste]

I believe it breaks down as 80 Darts total and 70 Barracudas (all of which I believe were fastbacks).  They were partially assembled at the Hamtramck plant and then shipped to a Hurst facility in the Detroit area for the final conversion and engine installation.  After the primary Chrysler racers were told to come and get theirs, I doubt that many of them were left for Joe Average to walk into his local dealer and just order one up.   In any they were undeniably quick even if the "production" status is left open to individual definintion.  To me, they are based on a production car but they are a specialty competition vehicle built soley for homologation purposes.  They weren't street legal, finished or warranted.  That's jsut my opinion though.