2nd Generation - 15" Wheels Clearance Problems

Neal_J · September 28, 2009, 05:42:40 PM

Can't locate definitive answer using Search so here goes.

Installed a set of 255-60-15 tires on 15x7 (~~4.5" backspace~~4.75" bs) Mag500 wheels in place of stock 14" wheels up front today. Tires rubbed immediately. Front tires hit the steering linkage.

Back left tire rubs too when turning right (275-60-15 on 15x7 with ~~5" b.s.).~~ 4.75" bs)

CORRECTION: ALL 4 WHEELS MEASURE 4.75" BS

Totally stock ride height.

Any insights welcome. Thanks!~

chargerbr549 · September 28, 2009, 05:58:05 PM

There are several guys on here that have run that tire size (255/60/15) with no problems but i'm not sure what backspace they used, I think member Charger 1970 has them on the front of his car.

Kevin

Neal_J · September 28, 2009, 06:02:00 PM

Man, that's what I'd feared - it's the wheels & not the tires. Dammit!~

Funny, I bought them from another 69 Charger owner who ran them with no problem.

Dammit!~

chargerbr549 · September 28, 2009, 10:55:28 PM

Where were the tires rubbing at? I am running 245/60/15 tires on my 69 Charger with 15x7 wheels with 3.750 backspace and it all clears very nicely, my ride height is about an inch or so lower than stock plus I have the cordoba 11 3/4 disc rotors and A-body spindles on front which I have heard might change the backspace required on the wheels, I think 4.250 backspace would be closest I could do before the wheel hits the upper control arm.

Kevin

Mike DC · September 29, 2009, 06:19:23 AM

The first problem is usually the tires hitting the front subframe rails at the back inside edge of the tire. Like behind the steering linkage.

Neal_J · September 29, 2009, 06:27:03 PM

I pulled all the wheels tires off in disgust with myself last night but plan to put them on again tonight to reevaluate what's hitting, where and hopefully determine/correct why.

The fronts appeared to be hitting the steering linkage while the driver's rear seemed to be scraping the inner wheelhouse only on right turns. WTH??

What I can't understand is what, like an idiot, must I be missing? The previous owner and LOTS of others in old threads have run these same tires/wheels with no problem.

Damn, it's frustrating being such a fool...

GRRRR!~

Rolling_Thunder · September 29, 2009, 09:15:06 PM

tolerances on older cars are not like newer cars - sometimes the tires rub in weird places because they are just variations in the build process - cars may have been hit - bent frame rails - or just plain bad luck ----

chargerbr549 · September 29, 2009, 11:01:50 PM

When I put on my 295/50/15 tires on the rear with 5.5 inch backspacing the tires would want to rub on inner wheel well in turns but I cured that problem when I installed an addco 7/8" rear sway bar. Now I am going to put in new poly rear spring bushings to tighten it up further.

Kevin

Neal_J · September 29, 2009, 11:38:52 PM

Could only check the rears tonight. I was hoping that perhaps I'd installed installed the rears on the front and vice-versa but, alas, not.

On the left side, clearance between the inner tire and the inner wheel well is about 1/2" while it's closer to 3/4" on the right side. Can't imagine there would be much difference in the tire dimensions, so I guess my car got hit on one side at some point...

68 RT · September 30, 2009, 12:06:37 PM

You need 4.25 back space wheels. I have 245/60/15 on 15x7 and have no rubbing issues.

Just 6T9 CHGR · September 30, 2009, 05:18:12 PM

Quote from: 68 RT on September 30, 2009, 12:06:37 PM
You need 4.25 back space wheels. I have 245/60/15 on 15x7 and have no rubbing issues.

I run 255/60/15's with 15 x7's 4.25 BS on all 4 corners with no issues...

Neal_J · September 30, 2009, 06:07:55 PM

Thanks Chris.

That would explain why the back is rubbing (5" bs vs. 4.5") but the explanation would seem to exaccerbate the fronts, where with only 4" bs I'm hitting the steering linkage.

I'm wondering how the previous owner of the wheels ran them on a stock 69 hemi Charger.

Just 6T9 CHGR · September 30, 2009, 07:42:58 PM

Quote from: Neal_J on September 28, 2009, 05:42:40 PM
Can't locate definitive answer using Search so here goes.

Installed a set of 255-60-15 tires on 15x7 (4.5" backspace) Mag500 wheels in place of stock 14" wheels up front today. Tires rubbed immediately. Back left tire rubs too when turning right (275-60-15 with 5" b.s.). Totally stock ride height.

Any insights welcome. Thanks!~

Quote from: Neal_J on September 30, 2009, 06:07:55 PM
Thanks Chris.

That would explain why the back is rubbing (5" bs vs. 4.5") but the explanation would seem to exaccerbate the fronts, where with only 4" bs I'm hitting the steering linkage.

I'm wondering how the previous owner of the wheels ran them on a stock 69 hemi Charger.

Neal in your orig post you stated you have 4.5" in the front? That would cause the rim to sit .25" closer to the frame no?

Neal_J · October 02, 2009, 02:53:22 AM

Yep Chris, you are correct. I made a typo. Moreover, following two nights of utter disgust, I remeasured the front wheels again tonight and the offset is more like 4.75" up front. I suspect that all four are the same.

At this point, I don't think even 1/2" wheel spacers will cure my problem. Out back maybe, but not up front.

I'm sure wondering how the prevsious owner ran these wheels on his 69 Charger without any issues...

Woe is me.

Just 6T9 CHGR · October 02, 2009, 04:45:39 PM

Crap

TylerCharger69 · October 03, 2009, 11:05:25 AM

Quote from: 68 RT on September 30, 2009, 12:06:37 PM
You need 4.25 back space wheels. I have 245/60/15 on 15x7 and have no rubbing issues.

That's exactly what I'm running!!! No problems!!!

Neal_J · October 03, 2009, 01:07:43 PM

Thanks Tyler & everyone for your helpful comments.

I installed all 4 wheels again this afternoon & the unholy racket they made up front at less than 5 mph was unbelievebale. Both the UCA and LCA hit the inside lip of the rim, regardless of whether I'm driving straight or turning. I will post pics later after my blood pressure drops below 200.

Oh, an the rears scrape too whenever I turn. Just swell!~

I suppose my only options are (1) to try 1/2" billet spacers, or (2) just sell these wheels and find some 15" wheels with less backspace.

Dammit, dammit, dammit.

Neal

Just 6T9 CHGR · October 04, 2009, 07:49:58 PM

Quote from: Neal_J on September 28, 2009, 06:02:00 PM
Man, that's what I'd feared - it's the wheels & not the tires. Dammit!~

Funny, I bought them from another 69 Charger owner who ran them with no problem.

Dammit!~

No fork in way that was possible without spacers of some sort.....

Neal_J · October 04, 2009, 08:10:23 PM

Yea, totally agree, Chris.

On the positive, I went and looked at a friend's 68 Charger today. He runs 15x7 wheels on all 4 corners with about 1/2 inch of clearance between his front suspension and the wheel. He didn't know his backspacing offhand but has no problem with rubbing - front or back.

Soooo, next weekend I plan to go Mr. Wizard and use some stacks of washers to test whether 1/2 spacer will get the job done and allow me to torque the lugs. No sense ordering a pair of $70 spacers from Jegs yet when washers are free.

Fingers crossed. I sure hope it works because I really like the look.

Neal_J · October 04, 2009, 08:57:21 PM

For posterity, here are the permutations I tried of brushed vs. polished trim rings in combination with spinners or Mopar centers. Initially, I'd planned on brushed rings with spinners but opted for the stock look instead. Cheers~

Just 6T9 CHGR · October 05, 2009, 07:48:54 AM

I take it you got the brushed rings like I got from Summit? I think they look much better than the polished. I see your spokes are brushed/painted as well.....is this a Ford wheel? Might explain the backspacing as well....

Neal_J · October 05, 2009, 09:48:03 AM

Yes & yes.

After I got your recommendation, I bought 1 brushed ring & 1 spinner from Summit and looked at all the combinations. In the end, I preferred the stock look & bought 4 more (I like the look of a matching spare). Thanks for the advice, amigo!~

Most defifinitely a Phord wheel, dated Jul-84.

After a couple of hours of searching, I found the phone number of theguy who sold me the wheels. I'm going to call him today to ask if he ran spacers but maybe forgot to tell me. More importantly, I'm interested if 1/2" depth worked OK without rubbing.

Chatt69chgr · October 10, 2009, 10:21:50 PM

I'm planning on having one set of "stock" steel 15 inch rims with dog dish hub caps for my 69. I had a 69 C body that had 15 inch rims and thought these were 15X7 but they were not. They were 15X6. I found a website that shows and older 15X7 steel wheel and a newer 15X7 steel wheel. I never could find any of the older types in my local junkyards but found quite a few of the newer type. I have attached photos of the two types. The newer type seemed to be used up until around 1980 or so. I got 9 rims and ended up with 4 good ones and one good enough for a spare. The rest were bent. They are all plainly stamped inside with 15X7 on them. Now for the question. Does anyone know what the backspacing is on these? I hope it's 4.25 inch since from what I have read that's what I need for my 69 charger. How do you measure the backspacing? Do you just lay a straightedge across the back of the rim and measure down to the hub mounting surface?

Neal_J · October 11, 2009, 12:07:58 AM

Lay a straightedge across the back of the rim. Use a tape to measure the distance from the back of the lug mounting surface to the straightedge.

autoxcuda · October 11, 2009, 05:14:04 PM

Neal, what brake/spindle setup are you running?

With the 73-76 A/E-body disk spindle swap 4.5" backspacing should be about the most you can run with stock upper control arms. The only other place you may hit with a wide front tire is the 69 wide style front sway bar. Only when the whee is cranked. On a 70 and up narror sway bar this is not an issue.

Of the shelf 15x8 magnums and rallyes are 4.5 backspacing. Sort of tought to get 4.75 because of where most out rim halves have the drop in the center. Where your rims custom made?

Neal_J · October 11, 2009, 10:01:26 PM

I am running the stock drum brake setup original to my car.

I bought these wheels used off a guy from Craigslist. He bought his car, an R4 1969 Hemi Charger, in the early 80's and ran the wheels until replacing them with stock steelies & dogdishes recently. All four wheels are marked 15x7 and dated 7/84. They are painted black around the face of the rim (not chrome) and surely must be Ford wheels.

The wheels scrape loudly against the upper control arm at any speed (knocked off some wheel weights). I did not ask whether he used spacers but I see no way he could run these wheels otherwise.

autoxcuda · October 12, 2009, 02:42:41 AM

Quote from: Neal_J on October 11, 2009, 10:01:26 PM
I am running the stock drum brake setup original to my car.

I bought these wheels used off a guy from Craigslist. He bought his car, an R4 1969 Hemi Charger, in the early 80's and ran the wheels until replacing them with stock steelies & dogdishes recently. All four wheels are marked 15x7 and dated 7/84. They are painted black around the face of the rim (not chrome) and surely must be Ford wheels.

The wheels scrape loudly against the upper control arm at any speed (knocked off some wheel weights). I did not ask whether he used spacers but I see no way he could run these wheels otherwise.

Look for a Ford stamp on them. Most ford magnums have a stamp on them in the inside lip. I thought ford rims also had the 4.25" backspacing. I can't imagine a stock mid 70's factory ford rim with 4.75 backspacing.

Neal_J · October 13, 2009, 09:56:29 AM

The wheels have tires on them, so I can only report what's stamped on the back of the rims, which read:

CW T DOT
15X7 JJ 7-84

I measured backspacing three times, from rim edge to back of the mounting pad, as 4.75".

Chatt69chgr · October 13, 2009, 10:14:06 PM

I found a website that showed the measurement being made not from the outer edge of the rim proper but the flat that the bead of the tire sits against. You would be laying the straightedge on the outside of the rim on that flat and then measuring to the surface of the hub. Which is correct? If you put the straightedge on the outside edge of the rim, your measurement would be about a 1/2 inch more that if you measured from the bead flat.

Neal_J · October 14, 2009, 02:43:50 AM

Well, I don't know the answer.

I can only say how I measured it and show the results photos of the damage to the UCS and back of the wheel.

Supercharged Riot · October 17, 2009, 11:39:07 AM

Dang Neal,

Im reading your thread. At the same time I was planning on buying a set of 17 x 10 for all wheels.

I have tubbed rears, so Im not worried about those, I'm just concerned about my front setup. Now I Think I have to do more research.

Figure it out yet?

autoxcuda · October 19, 2009, 12:29:52 AM

Quote from: Supercharged Riot on October 17, 2009, 11:39:07 AM
Dang Neal,

Im reading your thread. At the same time I was planning on buying a set of 17 x 10 for all wheels.

I have tubbed rears, so Im not worried about those, I'm just concerned about my front setup. Now I Think I have to do more research.

Figure it out yet?

What backspace are you going to run?

What disc brake setup are you going to run?

With factory disks the most backspacing on a 17" rim is about 5.3 to 5.5"

With factory disks the most backspacing on a 15" rim is 4.5" *

With factory disks the most backspacing on a 16" rim is 5.0"

*I believe the drums put the rim inward a little more than he disks. But nonetheless, 4.75" backspacing is too much for factory disks and surely too much for drums.

Neal_J · October 19, 2009, 12:38:48 AM

Spoke to seller today, who said (and I believe) he had no problems running them for 20+ years on his 69 R/T with factory discs.

Still yet to install washers/spacers.

autoxcuda · October 19, 2009, 01:25:02 AM

Quote from: Neal_J on October 19, 2009, 12:38:48 AM
Spoke to seller today, who said (and I believe) he had no problems running them for 20+ years on his 69 R/T with factory discs.

Still yet to install washers/spacers.

The disc is the big difference.

IHMO, he still had to have been very close. I run 15x8 with 4.5" backspacing and I do have some room to give. But I would not suggest running 4.75" backspacing in the front to someone. IMHO, that would make things so close that subtle difference could make one car rub and another not rub. Running different camber settings, factory tolerances, size of wheel weights....

Run a 1/4" to 3/16" spacer in yours and be done with it.

Just 6T9 CHGR · October 19, 2009, 11:16:18 AM

Quote from: autoxcuda on October 19, 2009, 01:25:02 AM
Quote from: Neal_J on October 19, 2009, 12:38:48 AM
Spoke to seller today, who said (and I believe) he had no problems running them for 20+ years on his 69 R/T with factory discs.

Still yet to install washers/spacers.

The disc is the big difference.

How do you figure? Neal's wheels are hitting the upper control arm which is the same part drum or disc AFAIK

autoxcuda · October 19, 2009, 11:23:52 AM

Quote from: NOT Just 6T9 CHGR on October 19, 2009, 11:16:18 AM
Quote from: autoxcuda on October 19, 2009, 01:25:02 AM
Quote from: Neal_J on October 19, 2009, 12:38:48 AM
Spoke to seller today, who said (and I believe) he had no problems running them for 20+ years on his 69 R/T with factory discs.

Still yet to install washers/spacers.

The disc is the big difference.

How do you figure? Neal's wheels are hitting the upper control arm which is the same part drum or disc AFAIK

The disc brake spindles and hubs must move the rim seat flange outward a little compared to the drum setup.

Just 6T9 CHGR · October 19, 2009, 11:35:00 AM

Oh Ok I see your point now

Supercharged Riot · October 21, 2009, 01:13:52 AM

Quote from: autoxcuda on October 19, 2009, 12:29:52 AM
Quote from: Supercharged Riot on October 17, 2009, 11:39:07 AM
Dang Neal,

Im reading your thread. At the same time I was planning on buying a set of 17 x 10 for all wheels.

I have tubbed rears, so Im not worried about those, I'm just concerned about my front setup. Now I Think I have to do more research.

Figure it out yet?

What backspace are you going to run?

What disc brake setup are you going to run?

With factory disks the most backspacing on a 17" rim is about 5.3 to 5.5"

With factory disks the most backspacing on a 15" rim is 4.5" *

With factory disks the most backspacing on a 16" rim is 5.0"

*I believe the drums put the rim inward a little more than he disks. But nonetheless, 4.75" backspacing is too much for factory disks and surely too much for drums.

I got factory drums by the way.
I actually wanted to try on these rims.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5ZIGEN-FNO1R-C-TITANIUM-17-x-10-RIMS-BRAND-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1c0d3dcbb8QQitemZ120481237944QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

I like the bronze look and I know they're mainly import rims, but they have the same lug pattern.
I dont know the back spacing

Im not even sure if these will work because they're japanese rims

How do I know if they fit without even seeing it in person?
are lug studs different sizes for japanese cars?

Neal_J · October 21, 2009, 01:35:21 PM

My best advise gleaned from this situation is to do a lot of research beforehand & don't be in a rush to buy. You want to be sure they'll fit BEFORE spending the $$$. If you're stuck on running 17" rims, read all the other older threads here & on Moparts to find out what will fit. I can't imagine buying rims if you don't already know the needed backspacing or lug diameter.

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2nd Generation - 15" Wheels Clearance Problems