Is driving a stick shift becoming a lost art?

[Charger440RDN]

When I was in high school drivers-ed back in 1992 all of the cars were automatic and they didn't teach you how to drive a stick. It seems as though nearly every new car is an automatic also, so when do kids get the opportunity to learn to drive a stick? Every charger enthusiast should experience the thrill of driving a maual 4 speed charger at some point  

[Brock Samson]

what's the ratio of Autos to Standards,.. 10-1 15-1?.. 

[471_Magnum]

No doubt it's becoming a lost art. Frankly, the new automatics are engineered so well, the historic benefits of a manual (performance and efficiency) are now simply not valid anymore. Furthermore, with the advent of hand held mobile communication devices, nobody want to dedicate one hand to shifting.

That being said, I'm doing my best to keep the art alive. My daily driver is a stick, and the Cuda I'm building is a stick. I simply enjoy the extra mechanical input involved in piloting a stick shift. Simply put, IT'S FUN!

[kab69440]

what's the ratio of Autos to Standards,.. 10-1 15-1?.. 

I would guess closer to 1500 : 1.

[Blown70]

2 of my cars are sicks 6 speeds, overall to me, that adds a nice drive imput/feel to the driving expericence...... I love them.

That being said the other 2 driveable cars are autos....still fun, just not the same....

Tom

[Mike DC]

                  
 

Chronically traffic-jammed highways & suburbs have done as much to make the clutch pedal extinct as any of the other factors.  

Stop-n-go traffic is the one place where NOBODY wants to be dealing with a manual, no matter how much of a gear-headed car enthusiast they might be.  

[Silver R/T]

Stick driving is the way to go. Manual trannies usually last much longer also compared to auto's.

[Mike DC]

Well, sort of.  Manuals give you the miles in a different way.    

It's like manuals give you one huge clutch outside the tranny case that's gone every 50,000 miles.  Whereas automatics just trade it for 3 built-in clutches that are all toasted at about 150,000.  

[69bronzeT5]

Well, I was learning on my dad's '90 Mustang 5.0 with a 5spd but that ended when he crashed the car My Charger and Duster will be automatic but I'd like the make the Coronet a 4spd or 5spd considering my plans for it.

[jaak]

Since I was 16 all my vehicles were manual....in '01 I bought a new S10 for a daily driver it was my first automatic (still have it). I got the 4 speed '73 now, and its a blast to drive on weekends and such, but for everyday driving, I'd rather have a automatic.

Jason

[kab69440]

Well, sort of.  Manuals give you the miles in a different way.    

It's like manuals give you one huge clutch outside the tranny case that's gone every 50,000 miles.  Whereas automatics just trade it for 3 built-in clutches that are all toasted at about 150,000.  

If you burn up a clutch disc every 50k miles , stop riding the pedal. I don't think I've ever replaced a clutch that had less than 130k on it.

[Brock Samson]

  When I took lessons at the Russell Racing School at Sears point (aka infinion), I learned to drive a 90 HP Formula Ford - and that was really an amazing experience, it took me most of the first morning to match the revs to keep from at first stalling - then crunching gears, quite intimidating while surrounded by instuctors and real racing drivers there for their off season practice...   It was quite unlike the few "Sticks" i had driven in normal street cars,.. the instructor pulled me out of the F.F. and let me try a few laps alone on the track in a real SCCA Eagle Talon with a five speed,..
There is no substitute for experiance. When i finally did get everything togeather out on the track the second and third days,.. I was really quite a Zen experiance, because your actually driving a hundred or so yards ahead of where your car is actually at the moment, aming for apexes and matching Revs. for maximum momentum and smoothness,.. there were a few minutes when it was really quite an etherial sensation. It's no joke when they say "A blending of man and machine". Hard to discribe unless your really driving at 10 10ths - surrounded by compeating open wheeled racers.
Probably the best $2+K I ever spent.  

[Silver R/T]

Well, sort of.  Manuals give you the miles in a different way.   

It's like manuals give you one huge clutch outside the tranny case that's gone every 50,000 miles.  Whereas automatics just trade it for 3 built-in clutches that are all toasted at about 150,000. 

really depends on how you use your clutch I guess. I have 102,000 on my daily driver with stock clutch, still holds strong.

[John_Kunkel]

                 
 

Chronically traffic-jammed highways & suburbs have done as much to make the clutch pedal extinct as any of the other factors.  

Stop-n-go traffic is the one place where NOBODY wants to be dealing with a manual, no matter how much of a gear-headed car enthusiast they might be.  

I totally agree, that's why I reserve the clutch pedal for my "Sunday" cars. The last time I got stuck in a freeway "parking lot" traffic jam in my Viper I took an off ramp that added a half-hour to my driving time but at least I was moving.

[471_Magnum]

Much like brakes, clutch life is dependent on vehicle weight, driving technique, and driving conditions. Any reasonably lightweight car can do 100K on a clutch. A truck driven loaded in city traffic, on the other hand, probably won't give you that life.

Since I bought my first car (not counting the hand-me-down I started with), eight of the twelve cars I've owned in the last fifteen years have been sticks. My wife insists on automatics though, so my current daily driver with a stick will probably be my last.

Another fact worth mentioning is that they absolutely KILL you on resale. Dealers automatically low ball you on trade-in. I've had a tough time selling every late model stick I've owned. I've sworn never to buy another for that very reason, but once I get in the market, I'm a sucker for shifting it yourself.

On muscle cars though, it tends to be the opposite. A four speed will typically bring a premium, although it narrows your market. You might get a better price, but it might take longer to find a buyer.

[Silver R/T]

                 
 

Chronically traffic-jammed highways & suburbs have done as much to make the clutch pedal extinct as any of the other factors.  

Stop-n-go traffic is the one place where NOBODY wants to be dealing with a manual, no matter how much of a gear-headed car enthusiast they might be.  

I totally agree, that's why I reserve the clutch pedal for my "Sunday" cars. The last time I got stuck in a freeway "parking lot" traffic jam in my Viper I took an off ramp that added a half-hour to my driving time but at least I was moving.

You have a Viper now? Please post some pics if you already haven't

[wayfast1500]

I purposly bought a 5 speed for my first car, and I'm real glad I did.  Unless someone knows someone who owns one, there is no other way to learn stick and the feeling of knowing you can drive pretty much anything if you need to is priceless.  Besides they are a lot more fun, and you have more control over the vehicle IMO.

[1969chargerrtse]

I was one of those boys that had nothing but 4 speed Muscle cars.  Now as a soon to be old fart, my plans for a 4 speed in my Charger are no more and I enjoy the automatic. How sad. 

[bull]

 When I took lessons at the Russell Racing School at Sears point (aka infinion), I learned to drive a 90 HP Formula Ford ...

Wow, 90 hp. Must've been a real screamer.

[Brock Samson]

here's the deal though these are the new cars... it's all about power to weight ratio...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVTCHYckok0

[ITSA426]

I got three on the tree in one of my chargers.  Kids look at it like it's broken.  I could probably leave it with the keys in in most any high school parking lot.  My other cars are four speeds but an automatic is nice when you're idling through heavy traffic.  Everybody should at least learn how to drive a stick for their first car.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

I've never owned a stick car myself...I have driven them though when I worked at the dealer but not for any length of time.   I'd like to get a toy with a manual trans but NOT a daily driver.....traffic in NYC would drive me nutz!

[General_01]

It seems to be a lost art to me. I drove my Dad's '77 4-door Volare' with a 4-speed when I was a kid('84-'87) all the time. When I bought the Bee in '89 it still had the 4-speed in it and I drove it like that until about '95 when I put an automatic in it. I recently put the 4-speed back in the car and am having difficulty re-learning to take off from a dead stop and I have missed third a few times while doing some hard acceleration. Hopefully I will get the knack back, but right now the art is lost to me.

[Ghoste]

Lost art?  I find myself frequently questioning if it was ever an art.    I work a lot of auctions in a year and see a lot of drivers in a lot of cars and it truly amazes me at the huge number of drivers who grew up in an era of vehicles with standard transmissions being commonplace and that can't drive them.  Not that don't want to, they can't as in they don't know how.

[c00nhunterjoe]

i was surprised at how many people my age cant drive a stick- and i'm only 26.  i prefer stick to auto but they are hard to find in newer cars and trucks. if i could have found my truck in a stick then i would have bought that, sadly all i could find was the automatic. my escort is a stick and my charger is a stick. the wife's focus is an auto cause she cant drive a stick to save her life.

[Blown70]

the wife's focus is an auto cause she cant drive a stick to save her life.

hahaha My Girlfriend cant drive one either,, guess what I bought with my new daily driver.... 6 spd....hahahhaha

[Mike DC]

                               

BTW everyone,

my example about the 50K clutch life wasn't supposed to be a literal mileage number back there.  I was just making the point that one big clutch is being traded for several smaller clutches in an automatic.  

 

[Smokey Bear]

The great thing about them is that your kids and wife can't drive the car !

I like manuals for the simplicity, reliability and fun factor. I would have bought a 09 Hemi Ram during the clunker drive, but they don't make them with a stick! A Hemi Ram with NO manual available? No sale.

Times are moving on I guess. The really old farts laugh at us because we can't double clutch a non-synchro   

[Ghoste]

Not all wives, mine can drive a standard with the best of them.

[Brock Samson]

found this, seems relevent.. 

[SFRT]

every car I have owned in the last 30 years has been a manual. I cant stand automatics. they actually creep me out, like, I dont feel I am driving the car. I think its from my lifelong motorcycle thing, shifting is like 90% of effective driving. with an automatic you might as well be sitting at home on the couch.

Luckily my wife feels the same. all 3 of our street cars/trucks are manuals. People freak when I take them out in the Charger here in san francisco, they just cant seem to get their head around it. funny.

I learned to drive on a 3 on the tree Rambler when I was like 12. with my drunk dad next to me. he needed someone who could take him to the Lucky Mart for booze i guess. LOL.

I am violating the rule with the Coronet, it will be my first automatic, but I figure, since its for the track, and my car club buddies will also be racing it occasionally, thats OK.

[chargergirl]

Dually is a stick, my 3/4 ton is an auto. When I lived in Tampa there is no way I would have a stick. Left leg would have been blown in 2 years. Traffic was awful! Automatics lend themselves to heavy traffic and I turn the overdrive off when in stop and go (3/4 ton). When I moved to Hudson area it was more rural and therefore lent itself to driving a stick. Found the car I'm about to get back and bought it at 24K miles. Put better than 100K on it and still had a great clutch. Although I was told by a mechanic, not MY mechanic, that I would be putting a new clutch in the car since I was a chick and most chicks blow the clutch every 3K miles. A few years later saw him again and he was surprised that I had same vehicle and the same clutch. I love driving a stick! Had a guy following me down a twisty road and thought my brakes lights didn't work...thought I was a guy when he saw the brake lights did work. Stopped where I stopped and I thought he was going to fall down when I stepped out of the drivers side. Love a stick but not in heavy, every day, go to work traffic. NWFL is like Hudson lots of open spaces.

[Todd Wilson]

Everyone should drive a non synchro 4 speed tranny! Then you will truely know how to shift a manual.


Todd

[451-74Charger]

Rather have a stick, you have more control of the car.
on an auto you use the brake pedal much more, and the engine isnt really used to slw you down or control your speed. Imagine icy reads, you can use a rear wheel drive with stick and let the engine slow you down, but an auto, you have to use the brakes, and they work on the front too.
can I say slippy slide

[Ponch ®]

I learned how to drive stick when I was 13-14, but I don't know if I could drive one pretty well now. Really, I just haven't had access to a stick car since then. Maybe it is like riding a bike, but it's been at least 13 years since I even drove a stick. Every family car and/or every car that I've owned just happened to be automatics.

I do like to mess around with the AutoStick® on my 08 Charger...but it's not the same.

[Ghoste]

Everyone should drive a non synchro 4 speed tranny! Then you will truely know how to shift a manual.


Todd

There's the quick way to tell who the farm boys are.

[Cooter]

While My 505 C.I. Dart is an automatic, I'm thinking bout puttin the 4-gear back in it...
The General Lee is a 5-speed, as well as myu daily driver Subaru, cause if it weren't I'd never get up hills..

I think Everybody should shove third and go sideways at 50 MPH just one time before they die...Course, there's nothin' like the gear jammers at the local track either.. Sure, there are people watching the drags but when the stick cars come up to the line, they get up and make their way down to the fence and hang on to it...Nothin' Like watching the gear jammers make a pass..Everybody round here thinks their competing with Ronnie Sox when they drive a 4-speed hard..

[Mike DC]

 
I usually like 4spds better than 5 or 6.  IMHO there actually is such a thing as too many gears.   

With these modern 6spd trannys, there is so much shifting all the time .  .  . you might as well leave the motor pegged at a steady RPM and just row the gearshift like a 6-notch gas pedal. 
     

[PocketThunder]

 
I usually like 4spds better than 5 or 6.  IMHO there actually is such a thing as too many gears.   

With these modern 6spd trannys, there is so much shifting all the time .  .  . you might as well leave the motor pegged at a steady RPM and just row the gearshift like a 6-notch gas pedal. 
     

Most of the time you find yourself skipping a gear on purpose anyways.

[trevor74]

My first car I got when I turned 16 was a stick. My old man took me out to show me how to do it and needless to say it didnt go very well but as I got better at it. I LOVED IT. Than the car blew a head gasket and cracked the block so we junked it. Next car I bought was an auto and I really didnt like not having the stick. It just makes driving it so much more fun and you feel way more in control 

[Blown70]

I have 6 spds, more are made and some have a skip shift mode, which can be turned off, in town driving most Techs too will tell you do 1-3-5-6 or 1-2-4-6

T

[bordin34]

Driving a stick is too easy not to. Its easy to learn and fun, eventually I will be making my Charger a 4-speed. The only problem with driving a stick that I have is when I drive an automatic, I get in the car and slam my left foot to the ground to start it almost every time same thing at stop lights.

[Mr.Woolery]

I've been driving stickshift cars exclusively all my life...I actually feel a bit weirded out trying to drive an automatic car.  My '71 Charger is the first auto car I've ever bought.  I'll keep it an auto for now, but will likely convert it to a 4spd at some point in the future.  There's nothing like working the pedals....rev matching, heel/toeing, trailbraking, etc.

It's very much a zen experience.

[Arthu®]

In Europe (this is my estimate and in no way scientific) 90% of the cars have sticks. So overhere it is anything but a lost art. It's rather odd if you can't drive a stick shift.

Arthur

[Charger440RDN]

In Europe (this is my estimate and in no way scientific) 90% of the cars have sticks. So overhere it is anything but a lost art. It's rather odd if you can't drive a stick shift.

Arthur

Interesting... I wonder why almost all of the imports to the U.S. and cars made here in the U.S. are only automatics then? Do they think americans are too lazy to drive a stck shift? 

[Brock Samson]

 I figgured it was a size efficency issue, sticks get better mialage and are "sportier", Autos are more Luxery orientated. Big cars like big american interstate cruisers have traditionally had them. Europian cars thend to rev higher and do more with less needing a stick to wring Max efficency from their peaky engines...
Alot of American cars can't even be ordered with sticks anymore, but in Europe it's traditional to drive a stick.

So yeah, It is becoming a lost art.

[chargergirl]

Towed the trailer down to Gator Nationals with my 3/4 ton/Auto. The whole way Mark is clutching...at least trying to. Everything he drives is stick so it's instinctual. I never said a word till we got there and he made a comment about trying to find the clutch. I said she'll never grow a clutch...he chuckled...we'll see. He was impressed with the way she towed though. Now he'll get to laugh at me when I do it cause the new/old car is a stick and will be my daily driver.

[Mike DC]

Three reasons for the manual/auto difference in Europe versus USA: 


--  In america the "average" driver of a car has been diluted way down from the enthusiasts.  Virtually every adult drives a car in the US and that reduces the stick-shifting percentage.  And indirectly, this also encourages ordering automatics because of resale values even if the first owner might have preferred a stick themselves. 

--  Gas mileage is extremely relevant in europe because of the prices.

--   USA is stoplight-to-stoplight around town and bumper-to-bumper on the interstates half the time.  Europe would compare to a much more rural area in the USA. 

   

[Arthu®]

Three reasons for the manual/auto difference in Europe versus USA: 


--  In america the "average" driver of a car has been diluted way down from the enthusiasts.  Virtually every adult drives a car in the US and that reduces the stick-shifting percentage.  And indirectly, this also encourages ordering automatics because of resale values even if the first owner might have preferred a stick themselves. 

--  Gas mileage is extremely relevant in europe because of the prices.

--   USA is stoplight-to-stoplight around town and bumper-to-bumper on the interstates half the time.  Europe would compare to a much more rural area in the USA. 

   

I completely agree that gas mileage is more relevant than in the U.S., but on the subject of average drivers I do not agree. I believe about 95% (again just a figure of my imagination) of the adults in at least the Netherlands have their drivers license. Which doesn't relate to the average driver/enthusiasts at all. I think everybody can learn to drive a stick. It helps that when we take our driving lessons (we actually get lessons and if you are no good than you must take a ton of em), and I think that is where the difference is. We have a much more advanced driving test to do before we get our license, and even though it is possible to get an automatic license it is rarely the case. This also because that would mean that you could only drive an automatic, which is pretty senseless here in Europe.

We do see an increase in sales of cars with automatics, for a large part because they have become a lot more fuel efficient. Also people now really think that it might be worth it. The roads around our cities are no different from the ones in the U.S. I believe, they are packed between 7 AM and 10 AM and packed again between 3 PM and 7 PM. Honestly I don't mind driving in heavy traffic with a stick, it is just what you are used to. New cars rarely have heavy clutches to deal with so your leg doesn't get sour either.

Arthur

[Ghoste]

No scientific proof to this but I would offer another possible reason as well.  Dealers in North America tend to primarily order vehicles with automatics.  They do this because there is more profit in a car with an automatic (every option purchased has a markup to it which helps the overall bottom line) and everyone can drive an automatic (the American auto retail formula requires all sales prospects to go for a test drive-doesn't mean they do just that the formula dictates such).  There may be a dumbing down and greater automatic availability because of this.
Of course I've never worked in an auto retail environment outside of North America so my assumptions are based on the rest of the world operating differently.

[Mike DC]

 
I didn't realize that the total percentage of citizens driving in the Netherlands had gotten so high.  I knew it was a lot but anything near 95% kind of surprises me. 

(No wonder they've been importing so many american musclecars lately . . . )



The mileage thing really can't be overstated, at least in terms of impact in the past.  I mean, an old Mopar (which had what was considered a very good automatic tranny in general) could lose something like 25% of its power before it got to the rear wheels.  No small amount of that was in the slipping tranny. 

[draftingmonkey]

Everyone should drive a non synchro 4 speed tranny! Then you will truely know how to shift a manual.


Todd

There's the quick way to tell who the farm boys are.

Or folks who drive non-synchro cars (such as early Jags).  How about having to learn to double clutch thrown in the mix.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-double-clutching.htm

[Todd Wilson]

Everyone should drive a non synchro 4 speed tranny! Then you will truely know how to shift a manual.


Todd

There's the quick way to tell who the farm boys are.

Or folks who drive non-synchro cars (such as early Jags).  How about having to learn to double clutch thrown in the mix.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-double-clutching.htm

Yup!   You will really learn how to shift and understand the rpms of your engine. We've been spoiled with the synchro trannys.


Todd

[Troy]

I don't believe that stick shift cars get better mileage these days. Many cars with automatics actually have a higher MPG than the same car with a stick. I believe it has to do with the overdrive and gear ratios. Another thing, the newer electronic transmissions with lockout converters are very advanced and tuned for mileage. I don't think a person (ok, most people) manually shifting could be nearly as accurate.

I prefer to drive a stick but, yeah, many people have no idea how and/or are too lazy. You can't hold your Starbucks, a newspaper, talk on the phone, and steer with your knees if you have to keep pushing in the clutch pedal. Besides, a whole bunch of people already drive with two feet (one on the gas and one on the brake) so they'd never be able to use the third pedal.

Troy

[PocketThunder]

I don't believe that stick shift cars get better mileage these days. Many cars with automatics actually have a higher MPG than the same car with a stick. I believe it has to do with the overdrive and gear ratios. Another thing, the newer electronic transmissions with lockout converters are very advanced and tuned for mileage. I don't think a person (ok, most people) manually shifting could be nearly as accurate.

I prefer to drive a stick but, yeah, many people have no idea how and/or are too lazy. You can't hold your Starbucks, a newspaper, talk on the phone, and steer with your knees if you have to keep pushing in the clutch pedal. Besides, a whole bunch of people already drive with two feet (one on the gas and one on the brake) so they'd never be able to use the third pedal.

Troy

Ya i think you're right on that one.   I picked a 2006 Ram 1500 4x4 for example and the only advantage the stick gives you is 1 mpg difference in city driving, accoring to the fuel economy.gov website.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm