Title question for the Superbird owners

[hotrod98]

How is your car listed on your title?
I've recently seen a title for a local Superbird that just says "1970 Plymouth 2 Door".
The reason that I ask is because the taxes on a used vehicle in Arkansas are based on the description on the title. If I buy a bird and it is listed as above, I won't have to pay any state taxes on the car when I purchase it because a 1970 Plymouth 2 door doesn't show hardly any book value and falls under the minimum.
However, if the title says Superbird anywhere in the description, they will go by average book value and I'll have to pay out the wazoo.
This is a very important issue since I need to prepare for the worst. Not having to pay taxes would give me more to spend towards a car.
Thanks in advance.

[Redbird]

When you sell it will you be happy receiving the average value of a 1970 2dr. Plymouth hardtop? Are you going to run 2 sets of books, one for the feds and one for the state for value? When you sell it, limiting the buyers to cash will make a much smaller pool of people to sell to. In the future if you do an exchange for tax purposes how do you handle that?

FWIW both the cars I have now are titled as Superbirds on the title. The other car I had in the '70's was titled as a Superbird too.

[WINGMAN]

  My two cars ( 69 Daytona and 500) are titled as 69 Dodge Chargers, in Kansas if you have a car that is 35 years old or older you can register it as a antique and do not renew your tags every year you just pay the personal property tax of $17.00 a year per car. Knasas lets you put a vintage tag on it ( the same year of the car) or you can put a tag that reads Antique.   Jay.

[moparstuart]

How is your car listed on your title?
I've recently seen a title for a local Superbird that just says "1970 Plymouth 2 Door".
The reason that I ask is because the taxes on a used vehicle in Arkansas are based on the description on the title. If I buy a bird and it is listed as above, I won't have to pay any state taxes on the car when I purchase it because a 1970 Plymouth 2 door doesn't show hardly any book value and falls under the minimum.
However, if the title says Superbird anywhere in the description, they will go by average book value and I'll have to pay out the wazoo.
This is a very important issue since I need to prepare for the worst. Not having to pay taxes would give me more to spend towards a car.
Thanks in advance.

missouri all my plymouths are just listed as plymouths 2drs

[69bronzeT5]

Atleast they'll register it with the proper name....my Duster is registered as a Valiant here

[hotrod98]

We're talking Arkansas here. My 1969 Dodge Charger R/T SE is now titled as a 1969 Dodge 2 door hardtop. When I bought it the title said 1969 Dodge Charger 2 door hardtop and now it's been simplified by the state. I had nothing to do with it.  I paid taxes on a Charger but the next person won't have to. My 1969 Roadrunner is now titled as a 1969 Plymouth 2 door hardtop. Same deal. My Superbee is now titled as a 1969 Dodge 2 door coupe. Same deal. As the cars get older, the states seem to simplify the descriptions. Of course the year model and vin stay the same.

As long as the year and vin number are correct on the title it doesn't change anything. The car is still what it is. The description on the title doesn't determine whether it's a Superbird or not. The vin does. Many states use a guideline for filling in the spaces on the title and I've noticed that most of the cars that I've bought have been changed to basic descriptions. If the state that you title in doesn't have a listing for a Superbird then they use whatever's closest. In Arkansas the taxes that I have to pay are handled in a different department. They read what the title that you receive has listed and that's what they go by. We have what is called State Revenue. We have to assess the vehicle before we can even title it. The tag office just collects the money for the State Revenue Department.
As for two sets of books, the tag department doesn't care what I sell it for. It's when you put the money in the bank and then claim it on your taxes that it comes up. Now if you trade it for another car and list the trade value much higher, it can trigger an audit when the new owner tries to use the much higher figure to offset his taxes. I never trade vehicles...never.

The taxes on a car that has the description listed as Superbird on the title are going to be figured at 6%. If the value guide says 80K car that's $4800. If it says 1970 Plymouth 2 door hardtop, it's free. Their rules...not mine.
As for selling the car, I don't have any plans to do so. I've already promised it to my son ans he won't have to pay a dime when he sells it since it will be inherited.

Bottom line is I would prefer that the title not say Superbird to begin with. If it says 2 door hardtop, then they will leave it that way.  This is not deception, it's the way the state is set up. The state doesn't give me the opportunity to change anything.
I've seen one Texas Superbird title that says 2 door hardtop so their system must be similar. That car was titled in Texas in the late 70's. Wish I could buy that one. I'm going to be looking at an Oklahoma car soon and I'll try to look at the title if possible.

I've been buying used musclecars for over 35 years and I can say that thanks to the way Arkansas does business I haven't had to pay much in the way of taxes. Thank god. Life was much better when Arkansas didn't charge taxes on used vehicles.  

[hotrod98]

Stuart, it sounds like I need to buy a Superbird in Missouri. 

Just kidding. The other deal is looking better every day. I should be driving a bird real soon. Just in case I don't sell one of the other cars, I have the financing set up. I refuse to touch the 401K. I would rather pay a little interest until one of the other cars sell.

Hey, aren't you in St. Louis?

[ZSmithersCharges]

We're talking Arkansas here. My 1969 Dodge Charger R/T SE is now titled as a 1969 Dodge 2 door hardtop. When I bought it the title said 1969 Dodge Charger 2 door hardtop and now it's been simplified by the state. I had nothing to do with it.  I paid taxes on a Charger but the next person won't have to. My 1969 Roadrunner is now titled as a 1969 Plymouth 2 door hardtop. Same deal. My Superbee is now titled as a 1969 Dodge 2 door coupe. Same deal. As the cars get older, the states seem to simplify the descriptions. Of course the year model and vin stay the same.

As long as the year and vin number are correct on the title it doesn't change anything. The car is still what it is. The description on the title doesn't determine whether it's a Superbird or not. The vin does. Many states use a guideline for filling in the spaces on the title and I've noticed that most of the cars that I've bought have been changed to basic descriptions. If the state that you title in doesn't have a listing for a Superbird then they use whatever's closest. In Arkansas the taxes that I have to pay are handled in a different department. They read what the title that you receive has listed and that's what they go by. We have what is called State Revenue. We have to assess the vehicle before we can even title it. The tag office just collects the money for the State Revenue Department.
As for two sets of books, the tag department doesn't care what I sell it for. It's when you put the money in the bank and then claim it on your taxes that it comes up. Now if you trade it for another car and list the trade value much higher, it can trigger an audit when the new owner tries to use the much higher figure to offset his taxes. I never trade vehicles...never.

The taxes on a car that has the description listed as Superbird on the title are going to be figured at 6%. If the value guide says 80K car that's $4800. If it says 1970 Plymouth 2 door hardtop, it's free. Their rules...not mine.
As for selling the car, I don't have any plans to do so. I've already promised it to my son ans he won't have to pay a dime when he sells it since it will be inherited.

Bottom line is I would prefer that the title not say Superbird to begin with. If it says 2 door hardtop, then they will leave it that way.  This is not deception, it's the way the state is set up. The state doesn't give me the opportunity to change anything.
I've seen one Texas Superbird title that says 2 door hardtop so their system must be similar. That car was titled in Texas in the late 70's. Wish I could buy that one. I'm going to be looking at an Oklahoma car soon and I'll try to look at the title if possible.

I've been buying used musclecars for over 35 years and I can say that thanks to the way Arkansas does business I haven't had to pay much in the way of taxes. Thank god. Life was much better when Arkansas didn't charge taxes on used vehicles.  

So didn't you just answer your own question?  If they made all your other vehicles 2dr hardtops and coupes I'm going to assume the rule would apply to the Superbird as well  

[Blown70]

one of the other cars sell.

YEs, please stop posting the 71 pics, I have runined three key board by  on them  hahahahha

[69CoronetRT]

How is your car listed on your title?
I've recently seen a title for a local Superbird that just says "1970 Plymouth 2 Door".
The reason that I ask is because the taxes on a used vehicle in Arkansas are based on the description on the title. If I buy a bird and it is listed as above, I won't have to pay any state taxes on the car when I purchase it because a 1970 Plymouth 2 door doesn't show hardly any book value and falls under the minimum.
However, if the title says Superbird anywhere in the description, they will go by average book value and I'll have to pay out the wazoo.
This is a very important issue since I need to prepare for the worst. Not having to pay taxes would give me more to spend towards a car.
Thanks in advance.

Legally, your car is a Road Runner (RM23 VIN) with the A13 option package.

If I owned a 69 A12 car, it would be nothing but a Super Bee or Road Runner on the title. I wouldn't worry about calling it an A12/lift off hood/6 pack/6 bbl car or any other street slang name on the title.

[hotrod98]

So didn't you just answer your own question?  If they made all your other vehicles 2dr hardtops and coupes I'm going to assume the rule would apply to the Superbird as well  
 


The amount of taxes to be paid is determined by the assessor before the Arkansas tag office changes it. The title will be changed by my tag office  after I've already paid the taxes if the title says Superbird. That will only affect the next person if I were to sell it, which I won't.
The title that the previous owner gives me needs to say 1970 Plymouth 2 door or something similar to save me money on the taxes when I purchase the car and I'm just curious as to how many of these titles out there have already been changed through the years.
This only applies to used cars titled in Arkansas, not new cars. On new cars they go by what you paid for the car.

Bottom line...if I find a bird that I like at the right price, I'll still buy it no matter what the title says.  

[hotrod98]

one of the other cars sell.

YEs, please stop posting the 71 pics, I have runined three key board by  on them  hahahahha

I love that car and I'll miss it very much when it's gone. A guy is coming by Saturday to drive it.
I've been working on the Daytona clone today and I'm starting to regret having to sell it as well. But I'll do whatever it takes to get a real bird.

[Blown70]

one of the other cars sell.

YEs, please stop posting the 71 pics, I have runined three key board by  on them  hahahahha

I love that car and I'll miss it very much when it's gone. A guy is coming by Saturday to drive it.
I've been working on the Daytona clone today and I'm starting to regret having to sell it as well. But I'll do whatever it takes to get a real bird.

Yes, I have even pondered selling my 2000 Firebird Trans Am Convertible to consider this, but I would hate to see that one go.  I hope somthing works well for a sale, If not I will keep up with the lottery hahahaha.....Heck I know have a buddy that could truck it home for me....

I hope you get a the BIRD you want Larry!!!

[ZSmithersCharges]

So didn't you just answer your own question?  If they made all your other vehicles 2dr hardtops and coupes I'm going to assume the rule would apply to the Superbird as well  
 


The amount of taxes to be paid is determined by the assessor before the Arkansas tag office changes it. The title will be changed by my tag office  after I've already paid the taxes if the title says Superbird. That will only affect the next person if I were to sell it, which I won't.
The title that the previous owner gives me needs to say 1970 Plymouth 2 door or something similar to save me money on the taxes when I purchase the car and I'm just curious as to how many of these titles out there have already been changed through the years.
This only applies to used cars titled in Arkansas, not new cars. On new cars they go by what you paid for the car.

Bottom line...if I find a bird that I like at the right price, I'll still buy it no matter what the title says.  

Oh I misread I thought you were saying you were transferring a title you already were in possession of and that your state changed all of yours to 2 door nameless' upon transfer.  Not that they were already that when you bought them, carry on... and to answer your question then that I guess isn't answered yet... I have no clue 

[Redbird]

It sounds as if you completely understand the rules of your state. In your case if you don't have to declare a value, a rational person would look for the 2 door hardtop title. Some cars will have it some won't. I hope you find one listed the way you want.

[hotrod98]

Unfortunately, the two cars that I have seen with the titles that don't say "Superbird" are not for sale.
I won't use that as a guide for purchasing or not purchasing a car.

[sunroofsuperbird]

No NC Title say what they are just plymouth 2dr.

[hemigeno]

Larry,

You might try giving the tag office an "anonymous" phone call to inquire what different categories they have for a 1970 Plymouth.  Could be they only have a single category and wouldn't know how to code a Superbird anyway.  If Arkansas' tag offices are anything like Missouri's, the ladies at the counter won't have a clue what the VINs or descriptions mean.

Just ask them what options they have and choose from there.




P.S.  Sure missed seeing/chatting with you at MMW, hope to see you out on the track next year!

[hotrod98]

Thanks Geno. We really missed getting to go to MMW this year. My brother-in-law is still in critical condition but is hanging in there. I just didn't want to be that far away from him in case anything happened. So far, so good though.

I have every intention of being able to drive a bird to the show next year. We're very close to making something happen. I think Sandra's more excited than I am.

[Ghoste]

As far as value of the car for resale, would anyone really pay less for a Superbird because it says 2dr. Plymouth on the title?  If you had two identical Superbirds in every way (including mileage and condition) and one title said Superbird and the other said 2 dr Plymouth I could see wanting the one with a title that said Superbird just for the sake of being able to decide which car to buy.  Based on that you might be willing to pay a small premium but really?  Would anyone anywhere really expect that having a title that says 2 dr Plymouth on it means the car is only worth the average value of 2 dr Plymouths and not the average value of Superbirds?

[Kismgby]

The idiots at the Illinois DMV have listed my car as a "carryall".  When I went back to have them correct it, they said that I'd have to pay a fee for a corrected title.     Now, I KNOW what I wrote on the paperwork. 

[hotrod98]

How the heck did they get Carryall from Daytona? Maybe the states should start setting higher standards for hiring new employees, like finishing high school.

[moparstuart]

How the heck did they get Carryall from Daytona? Maybe the states should start setting higher standards for hiring new employees, like finishing high school.

i thnk 90 % of DMV employees , are stupid,  rude and mean     we have to deal with them weekly being a dealership .  I rarely ever had a deal go smoothly and them get the paper work right the first time.

[ACUDANUT]

How the heck did they get Carryall from Daytona? Maybe the states should start setting higher standards for hiring new employees, like finishing high school.

i thnk 90 % of DMV employees , are stupid,  rude and mean     we have to deal with them weekly being a dealership .  I rarely ever had a deal go smoothly and them get the paper work right the first time.

I really agree with Stuart on this.  KS DVM sucks.
BTW Where are those pic's of MMW ??

[moparstuart]

  hopefully tonight

    CONGRATS LARRY , glad your pulling the trigger      cant wait to see it in person .   

[hotrod98]

In this case, the economy is working both with me and against me. The prices of the birds are down slightly, but the prices are down on all of the other cars as well. All in all, I guess it's a draw. I'm more than willing to give up a couple of my other toys to get a new toy.

A guy is coming by tomorrow night to drive the 71 Cuda. He's been trying to buy it for a while. Since I'm getting a better deal on the bird, I figured that I could come down a little on the cuda. As soon as one of the cars is sold and money is in hand, I'm making the phone call to set things into motion. I'm checking on transporting options now. I really don't want to drive 60 hours round trip to pick this car up. But, I may have to do just that. I'm not exactly a world traveler like you guys. I got enough of that when I was an adjustor. Eleven years of driving all day long every day is enough for me.

[hotrod98]

Here's how my title ended up after going through the Arkansas DMV. I guess the abbreviation "Sup" is better than nothing at all.
At least the bird is officially mine now. Well, after I send Tom the final payment that is.
Should have the car here in a couple of weeks.

I'm assuming that the unladen weight refers to a Superbird that's been stripped.  

[moparstuart]

 wow you dont even have the bird yet and you got an ark title .  cool

[hotrod98]

There's a whole lot of trust between both parties when a guy buys a high dollar car that's almost 3000 miles away. Tom has gone out of his way to help me get this bird. He even went out and bought the roadrunner back that he had put the original dana 60 and seats into several years ago just so my car would be just that much more correct.
I'm getting sort of anxious to get the car.
The only problem is, I can't do anything to it until I've finished the Daytona clone for Allen (41husk). Priorities, priorities.

[70Sbird]

Just for reference:
My 'Bird has a clean (original) Illinois title that I received after writing in "Superbird" on the application, it came back as a "1970 Plymouth 2 door" printed on the title

[hotrod98]

Just for reference:
My 'Bird has a clean (original) Illinois title that I received after writing in "Superbird" on the application, it came back as a "1970 Plymouth 2 door" printed on the title

That's what I was expecting to be on my title. I was pleasantly surprised when it had the "Sup" abbreviation.

[41husk]

There's a whole lot of trust between both parties when a guy buys a high dollar car that's almost 3000 miles away. Tom has gone out of his way to help me get this bird. He even went out and bought the roadrunner back that he had put the original dana 60 and seats into several years ago just so my car would be just that much more correct.
I'm getting sort of anxious to get the car.
The only problem is, I can't do anything to it until I've finished the Daytona clone for Allen (41husk). Priorities, priorities.

Congrats, on your bird!!! Now lets get to work on that Daytona   I know some one else who is getting excited.  The guy who sold me the wheels for my 68 called and is interested in buying it and G-man from this site is still interested, but I have been jumping through more hoops than I ever thought I would to sell my car for 5 0r 6 k less than it is worth   The things we do to make our dreams come true.  This guy is from over seas, so if he buys the 68 I may never see it again.  I will probably be parked next to your bird with your old Daytona clone at many events

[nascarxx29]

  Congrats Larry on purchasing a real superbird .I know of few project birds that Ive been following were due to come up for sale in the future.

[hotrod98]

I will probably be parked next to your bird with your old Daytona clone at many events

Allen, That's what I like about selling the car to you. I'll get to see it occasionally.

Congrats Larry on purchasing a real superbird .I know of few project birds that Ive been following were due to come up for sale in the future.

There's a couple of other real birds that I know of and I'm going to try to buy one of them. I have to wait until next year though. This deal was the hardest that I've ever done before. Having to sell two cars and then make everything come together was tougher than I expected. I want the two guys that bought my cars to be happy with their purchases and I know I'll be happy with the black bird.

[Blown70]

[/quote]

There's a couple of other real birds that I know of and I'm going to try to buy one of them. I have to wait until next year though. This deal was the hardest that I've ever done before. Having to sell two cars and then make everything come together was tougher than I expected. I want the two guys that bought my cars to be happy with their purchases and I know I'll be happy with the black bird.


[/quote]
Really, hmmm, so I should save any pocket change incase you sell the other 71

[hotrod98]

Really, hmmm, so I should save any pocket change incase you sell the other 71

That's a definite possibility.

[xs29j8Bullitt]

There's a couple of other real birds that I know of and I'm going to try to buy one of them. I have to wait until next year though.

On a roll now Larry? 

Congrats! 

[62 Max]

All PA titles listed as such..

[nascarxx29]

It looks like you got the black ice superbird

[hotrod98]

It looks like you got the black ice superbird

I'm in the process of setting up the shipping. I'm sending my 71 Cuda to Portland and picking up the bird in Seattle. The bird should be leaving Ketchikan in a container next week. I had originally planned to make the trip myself, but it's going to be cheaper to just have both cars shipped.

There's a couple of other real birds that I know of and I'm going to try to buy one of them. I have to wait until next year though.

On a roll now Larry? 

Congrats! 

Allen, I'm waiting to go look at the bird in Oklahoma until after the first of the year. I may buy it as an investment car rather than a personal car. Since I'm not ready to make the purchase, I don't want to make an offer. I've done that before and then had the owners sell to someone else while I was gathering the funds. Also, I need to wait until I see what all I want to do to the black bird. It needs some updating for sure. Interior, etc.
I promised my Superbird clone project to Howie so that's one less project on the to-do list. I was serious when I said that I was downsizing.
My brother should be picking up the 69 wingrunner in a week or so and Howie ended up with a 70 Barracuda and a 71 Charger. That makes six cars out and one in. I also traded in both of my trucks in for a new Dodge crewcab so technically it's eight cars out and two in.
That leaves me with the Tor-red 71 Cuda, Sandra's limelight Cuda, the 70 Barracuda drag car, the 68 Runner and the Superbird. That's a more managable number. I'll probably sell the 68 runner next year.
Now I'm on a roll. 

[xs29j8Bullitt]

There's a couple of other real birds that I know of and I'm going to try to buy one of them. I have to wait until next year though.

On a roll now Larry? 

Congrats! 

Allen, I'm waiting to go look at the bird in Oklahoma until after the first of the year. I may buy it as an investment car rather than a personal car. Since I'm not ready to make the purchase, I don't want to make an offer. I've done that before and then had the owners sell to someone else while I was gathering the funds. Also, I need to wait until I see what all I want to do to the black bird. It needs some updating for sure. Interior, etc.
I promised my Superbird clone project to Howie so that's one less project on the to-do list. I was serious when I said that I was downsizing.
My brother should be picking up the 69 wingrunner in a week or so and Howie ended up with a 70 Barracuda and a 71 Charger. That makes six cars out and one in. I also traded in both of my trucks in for a new Dodge crewcab so technically it's eight cars out and two in.
That leaves me with the Tor-red 71 Cuda, Sandra's limelight Cuda, the 70 Barracuda drag car, the 68 Runner and the Superbird. That's a more managable number. I'll probably sell the 68 runner next year.
Now I'm on a roll. 

Sounds like that needs to be put on a flow chart... or a battle map!       Good plan tho... 

[hotrod98]

Couldn't be as complicated as the plan that's in your head. You're dealing with much higher end cars than I am. 

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Couldn't be as complicated as the plan that's in your head. You're dealing with much higher end cars than I am. 

They are just as hard to push around the shop... plan is being modeled on a bank of Cray super computers...   

[41husk]

I will probably be parked next to your bird with your old Daytona clone at many events

Allen, That's what I like about selling the car to you. I'll get to see it occasionally.

I know what you mean Larry,  One guy is over seas, but he is planning on making it a 440 4spd from the sounds of it.  and the other guy talking with me is from California.  So, I am not likely to ever see it again after it leaves my garage.

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Looks like I own a 3700 pound 2 Door Hard Top down here in Texas... 

[mauve66]

where are the pics for this " 71 " i keep hearing about

[hotrod98]

where are the pics for this " 71 " i keep hearing about

What '71? Mine or someone else's? I have three '71's.

[hotrod98]

Looks like I own a 3700 pound 2 Door Hard Top down here in Texas... 

I forgot to tell the guy helping me get my title what the laden weight was and he guessed 2400. My fault.

[mauve66]

the one Blown70 keeps losing keyboards over......................................

[hotrod98]

the one Blown70 keeps losing keyboards over......................................

Mike (472 R/T SE ) bought that 71. Tom is now talking about my other 71 Cuda which hasn't been restored yet. It's going to have a 5.7 hemi that I bought a couple of years ago and will have the 4-speed and shaker hood from my other 71 that Mike bought.
At least that's the plan today. Tomorrow... you just never know.

[Blown70]

the one Blown70 keeps losing keyboards over......................................

Mike (472 R/T SE ) bought that 71. Tom is now talking about my other 71 Cuda which hasn't been restored yet. It's going to have a 5.7 hemi that I bought a couple of years ago and will have the 4-speed and shaker hood from my other 71 that Mike bought.
At least that's the plan today. Tomorrow... you just never know.

I do actually have the truck hooked up to a trailer.... I will rob a bank on the way... Just tell me when......