Title question for the Superbird owners

[hotrod98]

How is your car listed on your title?
I've recently seen a title for a local Superbird that just says "1970 Plymouth 2 Door".
The reason that I ask is because the taxes on a used vehicle in Arkansas are based on the description on the title. If I buy a bird and it is listed as above, I won't have to pay any state taxes on the car when I purchase it because a 1970 Plymouth 2 door doesn't show hardly any book value and falls under the minimum.
However, if the title says Superbird anywhere in the description, they will go by average book value and I'll have to pay out the wazoo.
This is a very important issue since I need to prepare for the worst. Not having to pay taxes would give me more to spend towards a car.
Thanks in advance.

[Redbird]

When you sell it will you be happy receiving the average value of a 1970 2dr. Plymouth hardtop? Are you going to run 2 sets of books, one for the feds and one for the state for value? When you sell it, limiting the buyers to cash will make a much smaller pool of people to sell to. In the future if you do an exchange for tax purposes how do you handle that?

FWIW both the cars I have now are titled as Superbirds on the title. The other car I had in the '70's was titled as a Superbird too.

[WINGMAN]

  My two cars ( 69 Daytona and 500) are titled as 69 Dodge Chargers, in Kansas if you have a car that is 35 years old or older you can register it as a antique and do not renew your tags every year you just pay the personal property tax of $17.00 a year per car. Knasas lets you put a vintage tag on it ( the same year of the car) or you can put a tag that reads Antique.   Jay.

[moparstuart]

How is your car listed on your title?
I've recently seen a title for a local Superbird that just says "1970 Plymouth 2 Door".
The reason that I ask is because the taxes on a used vehicle in Arkansas are based on the description on the title. If I buy a bird and it is listed as above, I won't have to pay any state taxes on the car when I purchase it because a 1970 Plymouth 2 door doesn't show hardly any book value and falls under the minimum.
However, if the title says Superbird anywhere in the description, they will go by average book value and I'll have to pay out the wazoo.
This is a very important issue since I need to prepare for the worst. Not having to pay taxes would give me more to spend towards a car.
Thanks in advance.

missouri all my plymouths are just listed as plymouths 2drs

[69bronzeT5]

Atleast they'll register it with the proper name....my Duster is registered as a Valiant here

[hotrod98]

We're talking Arkansas here. My 1969 Dodge Charger R/T SE is now titled as a 1969 Dodge 2 door hardtop. When I bought it the title said 1969 Dodge Charger 2 door hardtop and now it's been simplified by the state. I had nothing to do with it.  I paid taxes on a Charger but the next person won't have to. My 1969 Roadrunner is now titled as a 1969 Plymouth 2 door hardtop. Same deal. My Superbee is now titled as a 1969 Dodge 2 door coupe. Same deal. As the cars get older, the states seem to simplify the descriptions. Of course the year model and vin stay the same.

As long as the year and vin number are correct on the title it doesn't change anything. The car is still what it is. The description on the title doesn't determine whether it's a Superbird or not. The vin does. Many states use a guideline for filling in the spaces on the title and I've noticed that most of the cars that I've bought have been changed to basic descriptions. If the state that you title in doesn't have a listing for a Superbird then they use whatever's closest. In Arkansas the taxes that I have to pay are handled in a different department. They read what the title that you receive has listed and that's what they go by. We have what is called State Revenue. We have to assess the vehicle before we can even title it. The tag office just collects the money for the State Revenue Department.
As for two sets of books, the tag department doesn't care what I sell it for. It's when you put the money in the bank and then claim it on your taxes that it comes up. Now if you trade it for another car and list the trade value much higher, it can trigger an audit when the new owner tries to use the much higher figure to offset his taxes. I never trade vehicles...never.

The taxes on a car that has the description listed as Superbird on the title are going to be figured at 6%. If the value guide says 80K car that's $4800. If it says 1970 Plymouth 2 door hardtop, it's free. Their rules...not mine.
As for selling the car, I don't have any plans to do so. I've already promised it to my son ans he won't have to pay a dime when he sells it since it will be inherited.

Bottom line is I would prefer that the title not say Superbird to begin with. If it says 2 door hardtop, then they will leave it that way.  This is not deception, it's the way the state is set up. The state doesn't give me the opportunity to change anything.
I've seen one Texas Superbird title that says 2 door hardtop so their system must be similar. That car was titled in Texas in the late 70's. Wish I could buy that one. I'm going to be looking at an Oklahoma car soon and I'll try to look at the title if possible.

I've been buying used musclecars for over 35 years and I can say that thanks to the way Arkansas does business I haven't had to pay much in the way of taxes. Thank god. Life was much better when Arkansas didn't charge taxes on used vehicles.  

[hotrod98]

Stuart, it sounds like I need to buy a Superbird in Missouri. 

Just kidding. The other deal is looking better every day. I should be driving a bird real soon. Just in case I don't sell one of the other cars, I have the financing set up. I refuse to touch the 401K. I would rather pay a little interest until one of the other cars sell.

Hey, aren't you in St. Louis?

[ZSmithersCharges]

We're talking Arkansas here. My 1969 Dodge Charger R/T SE is now titled as a 1969 Dodge 2 door hardtop. When I bought it the title said 1969 Dodge Charger 2 door hardtop and now it's been simplified by the state. I had nothing to do with it.  I paid taxes on a Charger but the next person won't have to. My 1969 Roadrunner is now titled as a 1969 Plymouth 2 door hardtop. Same deal. My Superbee is now titled as a 1969 Dodge 2 door coupe. Same deal. As the cars get older, the states seem to simplify the descriptions. Of course the year model and vin stay the same.

As long as the year and vin number are correct on the title it doesn't change anything. The car is still what it is. The description on the title doesn't determine whether it's a Superbird or not. The vin does. Many states use a guideline for filling in the spaces on the title and I've noticed that most of the cars that I've bought have been changed to basic descriptions. If the state that you title in doesn't have a listing for a Superbird then they use whatever's closest. In Arkansas the taxes that I have to pay are handled in a different department. They read what the title that you receive has listed and that's what they go by. We have what is called State Revenue. We have to assess the vehicle before we can even title it. The tag office just collects the money for the State Revenue Department.
As for two sets of books, the tag department doesn't care what I sell it for. It's when you put the money in the bank and then claim it on your taxes that it comes up. Now if you trade it for another car and list the trade value much higher, it can trigger an audit when the new owner tries to use the much higher figure to offset his taxes. I never trade vehicles...never.

The taxes on a car that has the description listed as Superbird on the title are going to be figured at 6%. If the value guide says 80K car that's $4800. If it says 1970 Plymouth 2 door hardtop, it's free. Their rules...not mine.
As for selling the car, I don't have any plans to do so. I've already promised it to my son ans he won't have to pay a dime when he sells it since it will be inherited.

Bottom line is I would prefer that the title not say Superbird to begin with. If it says 2 door hardtop, then they will leave it that way.  This is not deception, it's the way the state is set up. The state doesn't give me the opportunity to change anything.
I've seen one Texas Superbird title that says 2 door hardtop so their system must be similar. That car was titled in Texas in the late 70's. Wish I could buy that one. I'm going to be looking at an Oklahoma car soon and I'll try to look at the title if possible.

I've been buying used musclecars for over 35 years and I can say that thanks to the way Arkansas does business I haven't had to pay much in the way of taxes. Thank god. Life was much better when Arkansas didn't charge taxes on used vehicles.  

So didn't you just answer your own question?  If they made all your other vehicles 2dr hardtops and coupes I'm going to assume the rule would apply to the Superbird as well  

[Blown70]

one of the other cars sell.

YEs, please stop posting the 71 pics, I have runined three key board by  on them  hahahahha

[69CoronetRT]

How is your car listed on your title?
I've recently seen a title for a local Superbird that just says "1970 Plymouth 2 Door".
The reason that I ask is because the taxes on a used vehicle in Arkansas are based on the description on the title. If I buy a bird and it is listed as above, I won't have to pay any state taxes on the car when I purchase it because a 1970 Plymouth 2 door doesn't show hardly any book value and falls under the minimum.
However, if the title says Superbird anywhere in the description, they will go by average book value and I'll have to pay out the wazoo.
This is a very important issue since I need to prepare for the worst. Not having to pay taxes would give me more to spend towards a car.
Thanks in advance.

Legally, your car is a Road Runner (RM23 VIN) with the A13 option package.

If I owned a 69 A12 car, it would be nothing but a Super Bee or Road Runner on the title. I wouldn't worry about calling it an A12/lift off hood/6 pack/6 bbl car or any other street slang name on the title.

[hotrod98]

So didn't you just answer your own question?  If they made all your other vehicles 2dr hardtops and coupes I'm going to assume the rule would apply to the Superbird as well  
 


The amount of taxes to be paid is determined by the assessor before the Arkansas tag office changes it. The title will be changed by my tag office  after I've already paid the taxes if the title says Superbird. That will only affect the next person if I were to sell it, which I won't.
The title that the previous owner gives me needs to say 1970 Plymouth 2 door or something similar to save me money on the taxes when I purchase the car and I'm just curious as to how many of these titles out there have already been changed through the years.
This only applies to used cars titled in Arkansas, not new cars. On new cars they go by what you paid for the car.

Bottom line...if I find a bird that I like at the right price, I'll still buy it no matter what the title says.  

[hotrod98]

one of the other cars sell.

YEs, please stop posting the 71 pics, I have runined three key board by  on them  hahahahha

I love that car and I'll miss it very much when it's gone. A guy is coming by Saturday to drive it.
I've been working on the Daytona clone today and I'm starting to regret having to sell it as well. But I'll do whatever it takes to get a real bird.

[Blown70]

one of the other cars sell.

YEs, please stop posting the 71 pics, I have runined three key board by  on them  hahahahha

I love that car and I'll miss it very much when it's gone. A guy is coming by Saturday to drive it.
I've been working on the Daytona clone today and I'm starting to regret having to sell it as well. But I'll do whatever it takes to get a real bird.

Yes, I have even pondered selling my 2000 Firebird Trans Am Convertible to consider this, but I would hate to see that one go.  I hope somthing works well for a sale, If not I will keep up with the lottery hahahaha.....Heck I know have a buddy that could truck it home for me....

I hope you get a the BIRD you want Larry!!!

[ZSmithersCharges]

So didn't you just answer your own question?  If they made all your other vehicles 2dr hardtops and coupes I'm going to assume the rule would apply to the Superbird as well  
 


The amount of taxes to be paid is determined by the assessor before the Arkansas tag office changes it. The title will be changed by my tag office  after I've already paid the taxes if the title says Superbird. That will only affect the next person if I were to sell it, which I won't.
The title that the previous owner gives me needs to say 1970 Plymouth 2 door or something similar to save me money on the taxes when I purchase the car and I'm just curious as to how many of these titles out there have already been changed through the years.
This only applies to used cars titled in Arkansas, not new cars. On new cars they go by what you paid for the car.

Bottom line...if I find a bird that I like at the right price, I'll still buy it no matter what the title says.  

Oh I misread I thought you were saying you were transferring a title you already were in possession of and that your state changed all of yours to 2 door nameless' upon transfer.  Not that they were already that when you bought them, carry on... and to answer your question then that I guess isn't answered yet... I have no clue 

[Redbird]

It sounds as if you completely understand the rules of your state. In your case if you don't have to declare a value, a rational person would look for the 2 door hardtop title. Some cars will have it some won't. I hope you find one listed the way you want.

[hotrod98]

Unfortunately, the two cars that I have seen with the titles that don't say "Superbird" are not for sale.
I won't use that as a guide for purchasing or not purchasing a car.

[sunroofsuperbird]

No NC Title say what they are just plymouth 2dr.

[hemigeno]

Larry,

You might try giving the tag office an "anonymous" phone call to inquire what different categories they have for a 1970 Plymouth.  Could be they only have a single category and wouldn't know how to code a Superbird anyway.  If Arkansas' tag offices are anything like Missouri's, the ladies at the counter won't have a clue what the VINs or descriptions mean.

Just ask them what options they have and choose from there.




P.S.  Sure missed seeing/chatting with you at MMW, hope to see you out on the track next year!

[hotrod98]

Thanks Geno. We really missed getting to go to MMW this year. My brother-in-law is still in critical condition but is hanging in there. I just didn't want to be that far away from him in case anything happened. So far, so good though.

I have every intention of being able to drive a bird to the show next year. We're very close to making something happen. I think Sandra's more excited than I am.

[Ghoste]

As far as value of the car for resale, would anyone really pay less for a Superbird because it says 2dr. Plymouth on the title?  If you had two identical Superbirds in every way (including mileage and condition) and one title said Superbird and the other said 2 dr Plymouth I could see wanting the one with a title that said Superbird just for the sake of being able to decide which car to buy.  Based on that you might be willing to pay a small premium but really?  Would anyone anywhere really expect that having a title that says 2 dr Plymouth on it means the car is only worth the average value of 2 dr Plymouths and not the average value of Superbirds?

[Kismgby]

The idiots at the Illinois DMV have listed my car as a "carryall".  When I went back to have them correct it, they said that I'd have to pay a fee for a corrected title.     Now, I KNOW what I wrote on the paperwork. 

[hotrod98]

How the heck did they get Carryall from Daytona? Maybe the states should start setting higher standards for hiring new employees, like finishing high school.

[moparstuart]

How the heck did they get Carryall from Daytona? Maybe the states should start setting higher standards for hiring new employees, like finishing high school.

i thnk 90 % of DMV employees , are stupid,  rude and mean     we have to deal with them weekly being a dealership .  I rarely ever had a deal go smoothly and them get the paper work right the first time.

[ACUDANUT]

How the heck did they get Carryall from Daytona? Maybe the states should start setting higher standards for hiring new employees, like finishing high school.

i thnk 90 % of DMV employees , are stupid,  rude and mean     we have to deal with them weekly being a dealership .  I rarely ever had a deal go smoothly and them get the paper work right the first time.

I really agree with Stuart on this.  KS DVM sucks.
BTW Where are those pic's of MMW ??

[moparstuart]

  hopefully tonight

    CONGRATS LARRY , glad your pulling the trigger      cant wait to see it in person .