lets build a dragster!

[68chargerboy]

so this is for a 66 monaco app, yes a monaco.  im turning this boat into a dragster because no one else does and i want sumting different.  so what i am asking from you guys is what would you do? ive made a few motors, trannys, and rear ends now and its time i get serious.  so post up some suggestions for anything from weight savers to cam grinds.  this is what i have as of now laying in the garage.  1968 440 block ready to go 40 over bore.  forged crank for it and the original heads.  a 727 with a 2500 stall convertor, and a 8 3/4 locker with 410's.  i am not too sure weather or not to do another stroker build or just put a blower on it, who knows maybe both? i want to here your guys's thoughts!!! send em at me!!!

ill do polls after i get some feed back as to what YOU guys decide. and i build this car from what you guys say.  thought this might be fun and probably be able to make a better car then if i just went with all my one sided opinions lol

thanks in advance

Zach

[elacruze]

How about good rods and pistons, a cam with lots of exhaust flow, and a 500hp nitrous kit? You'll save lots of time!

[68X426]

The forum will have lots of ideas. This should be a great topic. 

One word: Dana. Must have a Dana rear end.

Second: get Danica to drive it. Best possible way to save weight. 

[my73charger]

Is this strictly a drag car?  How fast do you want to go?  What is your budget?  If this is strictly a drag car, yank out the heater, heater core, front seats (add racing seats with 5 point harness) rear seat, inner fenders (if possible), sound deadener, carpet, inside bumper brackets, exhaust pipes.  Will you be caging the car?  Can you get a fiberglass hood and fenders?  Does it have power steering?  Think about converting to manual.  I would also yank the gas tank and convert to a fuel cell.  Put the battery in the trunk and add a kill switch.  I think I would go with at least a 3000-3500 (maybe more) stall converter depending on your power band.  Add a line lock on your brake system.  Wanna launch it real hard?  Add a transbrake.  This should be a good start.   

[68chargerboy]

The forum will have lots of ideas. This should be a great topic. 

One word: Dana. Must have a Dana rear end.

Second: get Danica to drive it. Best possible way to save weight. 

haha this is going to be a mans machine! no females aloud to drive lol

Is this strictly a drag car?  How fast do you want to go?  What is your budget?  If this is strictly a drag car, yank out the heater, heater core, front seats (add racing seats with 5 point harness) rear seat, inner fenders (if possible), sound deadener, carpet, inside bumper brackets, exhaust pipes.  Will you be caging the car?  Can you get a fiberglass hood and fenders?  Does it have power steering?  Think about converting to manual.  I would also yank the gas tank and convert to a fuel cell.  Put the battery in the trunk and add a kill switch.  I think I would go with at least a 3000-3500 (maybe more) stall converter depending on your power band.  Add a line lock on your brake system.  Wanna launch it real hard?  Add a transbrake.  This should be a good start.   

already have everything you said on and done  .  except for the cage thats this winters project.  it is going to be 90% drag and 10% cruise night car.  the show i go to is about a 10 minute drive on a bad day and only once a week

[my73charger]

Wow you have a good start.  Can you afford to buy some aluminum heads and have them worked over?  Buy good forged pistons and decent rods.  I would also go with an MSD 6AL and buy a decent tach with a shift light.  What shifter will you be using?

[68chargerboy]

Wow you have a good start.  Can you afford to buy some aluminum heads and have them worked over?  Buy good forged pistons and decent rods.  I would also go with an MSD 6AL and buy a decent tach with a shift light.  What shifter will you be using?

i can afford a set of heads and my buddy owns a machine shop that has a flow bench so i can get them worked over for nuthin. also already have the msd 6al and also have tach and shift light. as far as the shifter goes no too sure what i am going to use yet what would you suggest? and also as for good rods/pistons r u recomending i stay N/A or stroke it or stay a 440?

thanks

Zach

[my73charger]

I have a B&M Star Shifter.  It is a good all around street and strip shifter.  It has the rachet setting so you can hit your shifts.  Are you going with a reverse manual valve body?  Don't know how it would work with that.  I would stroke it for sure.  Just don't buy a cast or hypereutectic piston.  I had a friend buy the Keith Black hypereutectic pistons and they didn't last to long before one came apart on him at the track.

[68chargerboy]

I have a B&M Star Shifter.  It is a good all around street and strip shifter.  It has the rachet setting so you can hit your shifts.  Are you going with a reverse manual valve body?  Don't know how it would work with that.  I would stroke it for sure.  Just don't buy a cast or hypereutectic piston.  I had a friend buy the Keith Black hypereutectic pistons and they didn't last to long before one came apart on him at the track.

thanks for the advice on the pistons.  what do u think a 496 or what? ill look into that shifter too.  as for the valve body im not to sure im thinking of possibly putting one in but how do these 727's hold up? i have my doubts but i will never drive anything unless its a mopar even have the tattoo to prove it lol.  also im goin to do this build section by section for example, build frame, then rearend, then trans, etc.  doesent have to be in that order but thats my plan so im not all over the place. however the trans and weight reduction is a good place to start.

[Blown70]

727 can take as much as you want to spend..... average will take upto I would say 600.... there after you will be spending a ton in better internals for it.... if yoiu are going to make a ton of power, I may suggest a powerglide........just my opinion, but again you willl be spending some $$ on that too.

[68chargerboy]

who sells the kits to convert it to a powerglide?

[lisiecki1]

you should be able to source everything you'll need for a powerglide through summit or jegs.

[68chargerboy]

i have 3 727's a 67,68, and 69.  so i kind of want to use one of them so i can get some more space lol.  has anyone used a manual valve body or brake in their 727?

[Blown70]

i have 3 727's a 67,68, and 69.  so i kind of want to use one of them so i can get some more space lol.  has anyone used a manual valve body or brake in their 727?

John_knukel (spelling?)  and RD are very good resources for 727 info... I have one of Jamey (RD's) trannys 

[68chargerboy]

ill have to look into those.  thanks!

[lisiecki1]

i built my own manual valve body with a stage 3 kit......cheetah makes a good reverse manual valve body also, i believe they have some that are set up for transbrakes also.

[greenpigs]

 Isn't a transbrake a bit overkill and not needed just yet. What about the front bumper bracket? The chargers is HEAVY.

[elacruze]

Isn't a transbrake a bit overkill and not needed just yet. What about the front bumper bracket? The chargers is HEAVY.

If it's all too heavy, and this is a track car, why not just lose them altogether?

[68chargerboy]

i kind of want the outside to look like a complete car, thats why im trying to make a fiberglass set

[68chargerboy]

so after a long break and adding things up a new idea has popped into my head.  i think this would be awesome, cheaper then the original plan, and as far as i know i would be the first to ever do this in a c body.  two words VIPER SWAP.  for the price i can find these engines and transmissions for i would be able to save a TON of money.  this would also save me a good 100+ pounds off of the front end, give me a very reliable 600hp and allow me to drive this anywhere and everywhere without having to worry about it.  also has anyone seen one of these babies in a c-body??? so what do you guys think? im still looking for some info on these motors so any info you guys may have any it would be much appreciated. 

thanks   

Zach

[greenpigs]

  I would think it would take some fabrication skills to pull off correctly. For the price you could build a NICE 500 wedge and have no issues. For a 90% drag car I wouldn't bother with the Viper mill unless you like challenges. Glad to hear you haven't given up as it's been a bit since you posted about this.

[Blown70]

Are you speaking of a VIPER or truck  V-10.  A viper engine with tranny is still a relativly good chunk of $$ and need fuel system and Engine control electronics.... so to me this depends on your terms of "cheap"  or what price you can get on these parts. 

I HUGE "think" someone did this to a New yorker.... I guess I dont remember becasue really was not my cup o tea.  But your time and $$ to do what you want with.

I personally I would stick with your first plan......

Tom

[LeadfootBob]

There's a '67 Fury in Finland with a twin turbo wedge mill in it, into the eights IIRC. SICK car 

[68chargerboy]

Are you speaking of a VIPER or truck  V-10.  A viper engine with tranny is still a relativly good chunk of $$ and need fuel system and Engine control electronics.... so to me this depends on your terms of "cheap"  or what price you can get on these parts. 

I HUGE "think" someone did this to a New yorker.... I guess I dont remember becasue really was not my cup o tea.  But your time and $$ to do what you want with.

I personally I would stick with your first plan......

Tom

its a real "viper" motor and it comes with all electronics/wiring however i do need a fuel pump,  i get it all for 8k.  so do you think i could still build a stroker with 600+hp for the same price?  you guys got me scared when we started talking about my blocking splitting in half around that hp.  also the viper motor weighs a lot less then a 440 block so i was thinking that would be another benefit to drop a good 100+ pounds off of the front end.  gove me some input as to what your all thinking.

thanks

Zach

[motorcitydak]

I know its relatively not thought of but what about de-stroking it? If you can find the crank and turn the 440 into a 377 and you can wind that thing up to 9-10.000 and throw a pair or turbo's on it. Get a good cam for it and a custom blow thru carb.

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/destroked-400-a-113759.html

You wanted something different...

[68chargerboy]

high rev motors are nuthin but valve train problems,  cool idea but not exactly what im goin for.  i did think about putting TT's on a 500 stroker but it would make too much power for a stock block, and whats the point of having TT's if i have to turn the boost down to 6lbs?

  I would think it would take some fabrication skills to pull off correctly. For the price you could build a NICE 500 wedge and have no issues. For a 90% drag car I wouldn't bother with the Viper mill unless you like challenges. Glad to hear you haven't given up as it's been a bit since you posted about this.

im not to worried about the fab work im good with that stuff 

[motorcitydak]

I know you would be changing springs every year or so, just a suggestion. Its hard to be origional with a 440 block. Everything has been done which is both good and bad. If you really want to blow peoples mind with the motor, toss a new 426 Hemi in there. That will drop jaws for sure

[68chargerboy]

I know you would be changing springs every year or so, just a suggestion. Its hard to be origional with a 440 block. Everything has been done which is both good and bad. If you really want to blow peoples mind with the motor, toss a new 426 Hemi in there. That will drop jaws for sure

if i had the money i would   the viper motor seems the most economical, but everyone seems to be leaning towards just a plain ol' 440 stroker.  im gunna have to think about this one for a while, i just dont see any benefits of using a cast iron 440 block that can only handle around 650hp when i viper motor is efi, a ton lighter, and has 600hp stock and is capable of way more with simple things such as a $300 tuner.  also a 727 is only so strong, and with a 6 speed manual i would be able to bring the power to the ground a little more safely

[motorcitydak]

If you can get the viper motor for 8k and have it running for 10k total, Id say that is a smokin deal for 600+hp. Think about it

Good 440 block-500
Machine shop bill-750
440 rebuilt kit-200
stroker kit-1800
Cyl heads-2000
Cam-300
Rockers-300
Intake-300
Good carb-800
Day on the dyno-700
headers-400
valve covers-200
Ignition-600
oil pan and pickup-200

I know those numbers are just guesses, but that puts you at $8750 for just the motor. There are also a bunch of things I know I left out too. Then keep in mind that an EFI motor monitors itself, adjusts its own timing and A/F ratio and will be more efficent. Then there is just that cool factor you want so badly. That number also does not include the trans, so +$1500. In your case, Id for sure go for the v10 viper plant. Its more fun shifting your own gears anyway

[68chargerboy]

If you can get the viper motor for 8k and have it running for 10k total, Id say that is a smokin deal for 600+hp. Think about it

Good 440 block-500
Machine shop bill-750
440 rebuilt kit-200
stroker kit-1800
Cyl heads-2000
Cam-300
Rockers-300
Intake-300
Good carb-800
Day on the dyno-700
headers-400
valve covers-200
Ignition-600
oil pan and pickup-200

I know those numbers are just guesses, but that puts you at $8750 for just the motor. There are also a bunch of things I know I left out too. Then keep in mind that an EFI motor monitors itself, adjusts its own timing and A/F ratio and will be more efficent. Then there is just that cool factor you want so badly. That number also does not include the trans, so +$1500. In your case, Id for sure go for the v10 viper plant. Its more fun shifting your own gears anyway

thats what im leaning towards and im sure ur totals are just a base price too, building a motor these days isnt cheap, and you deff get what you pay for.  looks like its the viper motor to me 

[Blown70]

Ok, not a bad plan but you have A LOT of work to stuff that motor in, and keep in mind it will be custom made by you in most cases.  Shear engine price sure.  What is your time worth?.... You will be redoing the tunnel, tranny mounts.... some sort of sub frame connector, with all that HP, what rear you plan to run....?  Sticky tire 600 hp, will take some upgrading....

Now you have to cool that viper motor, make and intake, as you may not have room for the stock one.....

Again,,,,, lots more than just cost of motor.

keep in mind at least the 440 engine was built for that car and would set in much less fabrication........

[motorcitydak]

You ever think of making is a solid front axle AF/X car? I think the car would be breaking necks from doing double-takes looking at an AF/X 66 monaco with a Viper 10 motor and trans.

I really do not think that making new mounts and crossmembers is all that hard. I had to do em for my 5.7 Hemi swap into my truck. Id say that total fab time for my motor mounts both frame and motor side along with the complete trans mount and crossmember was about 1.5 days or work. You will have to cut into the firewall to shove that motor back, especially if you are going to do an AF/X. Air intake is easy and will only take a few hours to completely fab and just order a custom radiatior. As long as you can get the wiring harness and computer that will run on the stand, it can be in the car and burning the tires for around 10 grand.

As for the rear axle, Ive said it before and will do it again. Ford 9 inch rears are stronger that a dana 60 and are lighter than an 8 3/4. I put em in everything I build.

[Blown70]

Never said hard, just maybe something to think about.  Is that something he want s to do MC?

I am just stating thing he has to think about, nothing more.

Again, does he want to spend 1.5 days fabbing up parts, maybe, maybe not. 

I do like the AF/X idea.......

I will still keep my dana.... thanks

[68chargerboy]

Ok, not a bad plan but you have A LOT of work to stuff that motor in, and keep in mind it will be custom made by you in most cases.  Shear engine price sure.  What is your time worth?.... You will be redoing the tunnel, tranny mounts.... some sort of sub frame connector, with all that HP, what rear you plan to run....?  Sticky tire 600 hp, will take some upgrading....

Now you have to cool that viper motor, make and intake, as you may not have room for the stock one.....

Again,,,,, lots more than just cost of motor.

keep in mind at least the 440 engine was built for that car and would set in much less fabrication........

frame connectors already custum fabbed into the car, did that about 2 weeks ago.  as for the time spent im not to concerned, i get a month of coming up here in a few weeks so just sittin on my butt for a while, why not do sumthing fun? lol.  for the rear i have a dana 60 to put in once i get the 4 link on 

You ever think of making is a solid front axle AF/X car? I think the car would be breaking necks from doing double-takes looking at an AF/X 66 monaco with a Viper 10 motor and trans.

I really do not think that making new mounts and crossmembers is all that hard. I had to do em for my 5.7 Hemi swap into my truck. Id say that total fab time for my motor mounts both frame and motor side along with the complete trans mount and crossmember was about 1.5 days or work. You will have to cut into the firewall to shove that motor back, especially if you are going to do an AF/X. Air intake is easy and will only take a few hours to completely fab and just order a custom radiatior. As long as you can get the wiring harness and computer that will run on the stand, it can be in the car and burning the tires for around 10 grand.

As for the rear axle, Ive said it before and will do it again. Ford 9 inch rears are stronger that a dana 60 and are lighter than an 8 3/4. I put em in everything I build.

AF/X car hmmmmmm never thought about that........ now that would deffinatley have a wow factor!!!  looks like i have something else to research    i think that would just be awesome.  i really want to make something that no one else has or seen, but at somewhat of a budget.  Fab work is my favorit work and doing it myself only means parts as expenses 

[motorcitydak]

Blown70, Im not trying to call you out here or say you are wrong. I just wanted to share my experience too.

Check out the HAMB(hokey ass message board), jalopyjournal.com. There are a lot of AF/X cars on there and they will for sure be able to help you a lot with the conversion if you decide to go that way. The degree of difficulty there depends on if you want to run leaf springs front/rear or links. Based on the direction you are leaning here, I think I know the answer to that one. All I want to say is that the 'High and Mighty' did not scare the officials by doing a wheel stand on leaf springs

[Blown70]

Blown70, Im not trying to call you out here or say you are wrong. I just wanted to share my experience too.

. 

Did not take it that way..... Just did not know his want or level of fab expericence..... Sounds like he is really hitting the up good already.......

We 're all here to share expericence and hope to help members at least I hope, to, and you seem the same bud..

Tom

[68chargerboy]

tom its thanks to your experience i have a little bit better knowledge as to a good 4 link set up, those pics you put up before were great.  hows that build coming along?

[Blown70]

tom its thanks to your experience i have a little bit better knowledge as to a good 4 link set up, those pics you put up before were great.  hows that build coming along?

On pause till spring... shop is packed up for winter....   I just dont have much if any room to move around.  Will do a few small things, clean up get some parts together and hopefully work on the frontend......Just a lot of  to do with this one....

Thanks,  Keep going man sounds like your on your way

[68chargerboy]

ill keep you guys posted, kinda depending on two diffrent people for this deal to workout right now, the guy with the viper setup says he is going to hold it a few weeks for me until the other guy gets the cash for my bike that im selling sadly to buy the goods.  if all goes well pics will be posted with me next to the all aluminum 8.4 liter monster  hopefully around thanks giving

Zach

[motorcitydak]

Glad I could play the little devil on your shoulder on this one

[68chargerboy]

Glad I could play the little devil on your shoulder on this one

haha me too!

[68chargerboy]

whoa so the news i got to day definatley puts a change in plans.  so the motor that i was suppose to get turns out to be a gen 3 motor which only produces 510hp, still a good motor but i can build a solid stroker with way more ponies then that! so i called around to find a gen 4 motor like what i was told i could have for 8k but turns out the cheapest engine/trans combo i can find is 18K  talk about a way to bring down my day,  for that price i feel i could get an aluminum 440 block with 4.5" bores and a 4.5" crank and make a 572 for wayyyy more then 600 hp. just thought i relay the news on to you guys and let you know about my newly shed tears  , however im going to keep looking for a little while, every now and then people find deals of a lifetime, hopefully ill find one!

Zach

[greenpigs]

I wouldn't obsesse about getting an aluminum block. A good aftermarket iron block should do.

[68chargerboy]

the only reason i want aluminum is to save the weight off of the nose, but im probably just going to go with an iron block sadly, but nuthing is for certain yet

[motorcitydak]

You can just work on the other stuff while you keep looking for another v10. If not, 510 is not bad. What are the differences in the gen 3 motor? Can you just swap a few things around from another gen to get that power? Like the computer, heads, intake, exhaust?

[Blown70]

I have to believe that like MCD said why cannot you boost the HP on the 510 or second gen?  There has to be some resonable upgrades for those?

I dont know if I would give up yet?

Tom

[68chargerboy]

You can just work on the other stuff while you keep looking for another v10. If not, 510 is not bad. What are the differences in the gen 3 motor? Can you just swap a few things around from another gen to get that power? Like the computer, heads, intake, exhaust?

the gen 4's have variable valve timing (VVT)  and with a simple exhaust and tuner they make over 700 crank hp  so there are little to no interchangable parts.

I have to believe that like MCD said why cannot you boost the HP on the 510 or second gen?  There has to be some resonable upgrades for those?

I dont know if I would give up yet?

Tom

no worrys i am deffinately not going to give up, im going to continue to search, im in no means a rich person so spending this type of money has to be well thought out and i want to build it right the first time so im just going to keep searching for a little while.  as for upgrading the gen 3's there is a ton of stuff you can do to these motors,  theres kits to make them over 1200hp on pump gas but all that costs a good chunk of coin, so i am going to do some math and see if it would be cheaper to upgrade a gen 3 to 600 hp or just wait it out to find a good deal on a gen 4

Zach

[68chargerboy]

this thread is not dead, just finally got the funds i needed! so i decided to go with forced induction  yesterday i ordered the 512ci stroker kit from 440source, the twin turbos, weld-up header kit and some other odds and ends and of course...my boost gauge    ill start posting pics up of the build as soon as my first parts arrive in the mail. calling comp cams today to get a custum cam ground for this setup.  very excited to get this project underway!

[Cooter]

I can only tell you what a friend did along the same lines as your build....

Take one '66 Plymouth Belv. Wagon
Add one mild 440
Add junkyard 727 with shift kit
Add 3500 Stall
Add 4.56 gear'd 8 3/4 rear
Add 250 NOS Cheater kit (used)
Go racing and run low 7's, high 6's (8th mile)

[68chargerboy]

I can only tell you what a friend did along the same lines as your build....

Take one '66 Plymouth Belv. Wagon
Add one mild 440
Add junkyard 727 with shift kit
Add 3500 Stall
Add 4.56 gear'd 8 3/4 rear
Add 250 NOS Cheater kit (used)
Go racing and run low 7's, high 6's (8th mile)

hahaha talk about a solid budget build!

[Cooter]

Yessir, all those Nova nd Chevelle owners laughed at him unloading it off the trailer, but I know him and he does some stupid, crazy sh*t that'll run like hell....Needless to say, the Nova and Chevelle guys were running in the high 7's.They all shook their heads at his ratty, old Wagon that just cleaned their clocks...Making junk go fast is his specialty...

[68chargerboy]

thats crazy! i would have loved to see that, got any pics?

[Cooter]

Next time I catch up with My buddy Jarrod, I'll snap a few...

[68chargerboy]

sounds good 

[Grim Jhaixus]

I've been wanting to do the same with my 73 New Yorker (I call it the SDF-1) that I pulled my 440 from. I vote for the Viper idea.

[68chargerboy]

the viper idea has come and gone, it would have been awesome but maybe on another build

[six-tee-nine]

Bi-turbo 440 + EFI?     

[68chargerboy]

Bi-turbo 440 + EFI?     

once my wallet allows me i will deffinately be making a stop at F.A.S.T 

[Cooter]

540 (Mega Block).........500 HP Direct Port Fogger............Chassis to hold it......




Spray it till it explodes......

[elacruze]

540 (Mega Block).........500 HP Direct Port Fogger............Chassis to hold it......




Spray it till it explodes......

BME rods, Callie's Crank, JE or Diamond Pistons, just add NOS as necessary. Oh yeah get somebody to get the cam right for the NOS.

[68chargerboy]

lol sorry guys, no nitrous motor, turbos are already here haha

[1Bad70Charger]

lol sorry guys, no nitrous motor, turbos are already here haha

   

[68chargerboy]

stroker is suppose to arrive tuesday according to the tracking number, got a few pics ill put up once i get the stroker 

[68chargerboy]

got my storker kit in the mail today, put in the crank, got all my pistons/rods together, puttin in the pistons/rods tomorrow night!    ill post picks once the pistons are in,  have a lot lol

[Challenger340]

got my storker kit in the mail today, put in the crank, got all my pistons/rods together, puttin in the pistons/rods tomorrow night!    ill post picks once the pistons are in,  have a lot lol

just a reminder,
Don't forget to check the Bearing Clearances closely as delivered from 440source, don't assume anything.

ARP main studs ? Block Align Honed after ?

Congrats & Good Luck !