Pro Touring Charger 68/69

[Birkholm]

hey..

where can I find Chargers with special colour and wheels ?

I don't know what to call it, pro touring or costum


thanks Christian // Denmark
http://www.bilgalleri.dk/uploads_xl_wm/1359070.jpg?

[Bill Howell]

You mean like this?
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60029.0.html
that is my 72, done in a protouring style. Factory color, but certainly bigger wheels, brakes, etc.

[Birkholm]

I mean normal pictures taken with camera ..

[Hemidog]

I mean normal pictures taken with camera ..

Look at the whole thread!

Also, check these:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,19141.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,48500.0.html

Lots of others, do a search.

[G-man]

Just get yourself a serious badass 15" looking wheel for your MUSCLE car and leave those "pro touring" (Half rice half muscle) cars alone. 

[69bronzeT5]

Just get yourself a serious badass 15" looking wheel for your MUSCLE car and leave those "pro touring" (Half rice half muscle) cars alone. 

Not all pro-touring cars are half rice. I have a feeling you don't like pro-tourers but you don't have to ruin it for the rest of us. SOME people do cross the line into ricer with their cars sometimes but other people make them look just right....for example, I don't see anything rice about these "pro-tourers"....

[bigred68]

Just get yourself a serious badass 15" looking wheel for your MUSCLE car and leave those "pro touring" (Half rice half muscle) cars alone. 

Not all pro-touring cars are half rice. I have a feeling you don't like pro-tourers but you don't have to ruin it for the rest of us. SOME people do cross the line into ricer with their cars sometimes but other people make them look just right....for example, I don't see anything rice about these "pro-tourers"....

Yup! Cody you beat me to it! AND... Pete's Charger(Autodynamics) and Norway Chargers Beast, There's a bunch of them, all awsome!!
BTW, did you notice the fabrication going on with the tail section of the last Charger? Cody, do you have anymore pics of that last car? I've already got a complete library of the incredible "Angry" cars! 

[elacruze]

Just get yourself a serious badass 15" looking wheel for your MUSCLE car and leave those "pro touring" (Half rice half muscle) cars alone.  

I'm going with wide 15" Cop rims and dog dishes; I still consider mine to be 'Pro Touring'. Electronic Fuel Injection, dual plane manifold. Heavy flywheel, Gear Vendors Overdrive, ARB air locked 8-3/4 at 3.55:1. Frame connectors. Firm Feel cop box, torsion bars, F&R sway bars, upper control arms, reinforced LCA's and Konis; 11-3/4 front disc brakes. Modern air conditioning components. Entirely targeted towards a 20,000 mile summer next year.

Am I missing something?

[Back N Black]

So, what makes a car or "charger" pro touring. Is it the rims, racing seats,reverse lights modded into the bumper?   

[bigred68]

So, what makes a car or "charger" pro touring. Is it the rims, racing seats,reverse lights modded into the bumper?   

Jeez, I'm not sure if there is a proper definition. I Think? Its a car set up to run with the best of the best? A car that can handle like its on rails, brake on a dime, yet has the creature comforts of air conditioning, descent ride quality, etc. A car that can run triple digits across the nation all day long in triple digit temperatures while keeping its occupants cool and comfortable. Then, when it gets to Laguna Seca, it can run laps with the Ferrari's and BMW's.
elacruze's car Qualifies in my book!!
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[HPP]

Well, initially there were G machines. The whole idea behind that concept was a car that could produce 1 g of accelleration in accelleration, braking, and cornering. Since the means to do that produces some pretty heavy weight machinery that isn't always the most pleasent to ride in for any lenght of time, it kind of morphed into pro-touring which took the G machine concept and backed off the performance a little bit while adding to the comfort of a late model list of options like air, cruise, seating, stereo, etc.  Kind of like pro-street was based on the pro-stock look but was a more streetable approach.

Much like pro-street became a charicature of itself with fat tires and no peformance in the 1980s, so too has pro-touring become a phrase to call out the big wheel, thin sidewall bolt on crowd that doesn't ride an better, nor perform any better than the 60s era cars they are based on.  Fortunatly, there are still some cars out there that can combine excellent performance characteristics with comfort.

[NYCMille]

I'm going with wide 15" Cop rims and dog dishes; I still consider mine to be 'Pro Touring'. Electronic Fuel Injection, dual plane manifold. Heavy flywheel, Gear Vendors Overdrive, ARB air locked 8-3/4 at 3.55:1. Frame connectors. Firm Feel cop box, torsion bars, F&R sway bars, upper control arms, reinforced LCA's and Konis; 11-3/4 front disc brakes. Modern air conditioning components. Entirely targeted towards a 20,000 mile summer next year.

Hell yea this combo qualifies. Larger wheels are definitely a "look" but more to the point they are generally there to accommodate larger brakes. This is not to say you can't get a car to stop with 11.75" rotors and standard calipers, it may just not be as good as some of the bigger systems. If you are going to do the FirmFeel stage III box make sure you also get the fast ratio pitman arm, it makes a WORLD of different, just make sure it'll clear you headers. Otherwise it sounds like you're right on track to building one bad ass street machine.

Just get yourself a serious badass 15" looking wheel for your MUSCLE car and leave those "pro touring" (Half rice half muscle) cars alone

- I'd love to know where the rice on my cars is located, LOL!

[Mike DC]

Much like pro-street became a charicature of itself with fat tires and no peformance in the 1980s, so too has pro-touring become a phrase to call out the big wheel, thin sidewall bolt on crowd that doesn't ride an better, nor perform any better than the 60s era cars they are based on.  Fortunatly, there are still some cars out there that can combine excellent performance characteristics with comfort.

And in my opinion those huge wheels don't even perform better.  They're too easy to damage on the street, and they're heavy enough to offset the slight contact patch gain over 15-17" wheels.  These huge 19" wheels are pure bling IMHO. 

[NYCMille]

Keep in mind that with these bigger wheels comes a much greater selection of performance tires and a greater clearance for larger brakes. Look at any performance car built today, nothing has under an 18" wheel... there IS a reason for this.

[Troy]

Yep, brakes. I had many conversations with Andy at AR Engineering and he said even the 13" Viper discs he sell will fade after a few laps on the track on a big heavy car like a Charger. Of course, if you aren't making regular stops from a high speed you're fine. The bigger wheels are heavier but the sidewalls are stiffer too. You can't avoid them if you want decent brakes though.

Oh, and I hate it when I see a car with HUGE wheels and tiny drum brakes inside (usually painted a bright color to be noticeable right away).

To the original question... different paint and wheels aren't really even custom - just modified. There are lot of pictures here on the site of cars in non-stock colors with after market wheels.

Troy

[Blown70]

Much depends on the brakes you run, as stated above,  I have driven cars with larger sidewall and with smaller sidewall, dont know becasue I did not have a way to measure G-force or lateral acceration, but I can tell you I much perfered the skinner sidewall, with the way the suspension was set on that car..... the wide sidewalll did not give much for road feel and seemed to float more than I liked upon cornering..... On the straight  not much difference at all.

I am not a fan of the 20" plus wheels on a charger...... but there are some reasons to run a 17" or 18" wheel.  last set up for brakes I looked at from Wilwood required a 17" min, wheel.....

Tom

[69bronzeT5]

So, what makes a car or "charger" pro touring. Is it the rims, racing seats,reverse lights modded into the bumper?   

It's all about the handling and braking. A quote I've heard before is "a pro-touring muscle car is like a new performance car wrapped in a classic muscle body."

[elacruze]

...If you are going to do the FirmFeel stage III box make sure you also get the fast ratio pitman arm, it makes a WORLD of different, just make sure it'll clear you headers. Otherwise it sounds like you're right on track to building one bad ass street machine.

They don't fit. 

Somewhere down the line I'd like to build a set of Burns Tri-Y headers-then I'd be sure to build in clearance.
Now I just need a TIG welder and a month of practice...

[Rolling_Thunder]

I'm planning on 18x8 and 18x9.5 wheels on my Charger...     but then again i'll be running 14" rotors and 6 piston calipers...     aint no way those will fit under 15's     

[Bill Howell]

I have been active at pro-touring.com for a long time now. the consensus there is protouring is defined as a musclecar with improvements that make it run(drivetrain), steer(suspension) and stop (BRAKES) better than stock. There are certainly different degrees of this genre, but to me, brakes are high on the list of necessities. We all know how inferior the original brakes where on these cars, especially those with drum brakes and/or non power brakes. You can upgrade the engine and suspension all you like, but if you can not stop it, you will soon be rebuilding it. You simply can not put big brakes on anything and keep the 14 or 15 inch rims. Even corvette 13 inch rotors require 17". As heavy as our cars are, it just makes sense to put 14" rotors if you are serious about running your car and stopping without fad. The following picture of my car will show that 18 is the minimum I can run and clear the brakes.

Road racers agree that 17 is the optimum size for their cars, but I choose the larger rotors. You don't have to put rubberband tires on your car, there are more options coming every year. I hate to look at ebay and see all the "protouring cars" that are really nothing but a set of Torque Thrust IIs on a stock suspension and brakes. Sure, there are a group of guys that spend the money for the bolton parts and never drive their cars, but that will always be, some people never learned that trailers are for boats. I am 51 and have always had hotrods and musclecars. I for one am a poster child for driving your protouring car. I can tell you, after 12000 miles on my last car, and still drive it regularly, that there is a huge difference in the way it drove originally and now. My Charger will ride on 19s and 20s when traveling, but don't mistake that as being a poser. The 18s and toyo 888s will make it a huge threat at the autocross and roadrace events. It will represent MOPARS at the Optima Challenge in Nov, the day after SEMA.  I have driven it  pretty hard the last several days and it does need some fine tuning, but I can tell you this, I can put it into a offramp hard enough right now that the outside rear wheel comes off the ground. Yes, needs heavier springs up front, but they are coming but the frontend is on rails and that is a good thing. Hit the brakes and it is refreshing to know it will stop.

[G-man]

I guess the rice to me is the big diameter wheels that belong on Supras/skylines etc not muscle cars which are meant to look beefy, fat tyres, big profiles, tough looking bodies...

I dont consider fuel injection/custom seats etc rice though I dont want any of that either.

it looks fine on both the blue 69 Charger recently done and angry charger as the rest of the cars set up to suit it but I guess it just isnt the way I would go due to reasons above (traditional muscle cars = big profile tyres not big wheels)

No offense intended to anyone 

[Bill Howell]

I guess the rice to me is the big diameter wheels that belong on Supras/skylines etc not muscle cars which are meant to look beefy, fat tyres, big profiles, tough looking bodies...

I dont consider fuel injection/custom seats etc rice though I dont want any of that either.

it looks fine on both the blue 69 Charger recently done and angry charger as the rest of the cars set up to suit it but I guess it just isnt the way I would go due to reasons above (traditional muscle cars = big profile tyres not big wheels)

No offense intended to anyone 

Certainly non taken here.
It is just to have the whole package, brakes in particular, the bigger wheels are a necessary evil. Some have even attempted to hide them buy powder coating the wheels black and pinstriping a red ring around the outer edge to make the wheel appear part of the tire.  I too like bigger sidewalls when drag racing, but will say that since I started autocrossing, I 1) understand the need for shorter sidewalls, and 2) find straight lining bores me quickly anymore.

[Mike DC]

                

I understand the reasonings for the G-machine type wheel & tire combos.  



However I think there's a huge practicality difference between 17" rims and 45-series tires, as opposed to 20" rims and 25-series tires.  

And I see a lot of 19-20" rims containing rotors that would be easily swallowed by 17" rims.  

     

[69bronzeT5]

I guess the rice to me is the big diameter wheels that belong on Supras/skylines etc not muscle cars which are meant to look beefy, fat tyres, big profiles, tough looking bodies...

No offense intended to anyone 

None taken....I do agree...the biggest I'd go on any car I'll ever own is 18". Anything over that is just gay

[elacruze]

I spent a lot of time wringing my hands over what brakes to have. First, I don't like big rims on Chargers. They're OK on E-bodies, and some A-bodies and even Roadrunners-but not gen 2-3 Chargers. Personal preference. Second, I have no intention of 'crossing or roadracing this thing; it will stay right close to the speed limits 99% of the time, and when it's faster I don't plan on stopping hard twice. I expect the 11.75" will do fine for my intended usage. Thirdly, I really wanted other-than-stock calipers, but utility won the day-if anything goes wrong on the trip(s) I can replace any of the parts at any local parts store nationwide. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention Cruise Control.

Think 10% Pro and 90% Touring. If we can schedule it all in, we're doing Power Tour, Rte 66 from Chicago to San Diego, whatever big Mopar meets fit in, and maybe up the coast of CA and over the top through Yellowstone and Mount Rushmore. Home again from Michigan to Florida on old Dixie Highway.

I'll be keeping a close eye on larger rims, in case I see something I like. After the summer tours, she'll get a 500" secret squirrel motor and more brakes, if I can find rims I can live with. Anybody make 18" steel rims for dog dishes?

[Rolling_Thunder]

you can get slotted 11.75" rotors and adapters to run the Viper spec 4-piston Brembo calipers...   that should be plenty for what you want to do - plus they are still over the counter parts.   

[NYCMille]

Bill Howell - I'm not sure if I ever commented on your car, but let me just say that I have been following your build since day one and I truly think you nailed it. Perfect color choices, the wheels are tits and overall look and feel is REALLY aggressive but not overdone, simply a beautiful car.

Pro-touring:
When I build a car I always ask myself a few questions BEFORE I even put out dollar one.
- What am I going to do with this car?
- Will it be 90% street, 10% track or vice versa or somewhere in between?
- Will it simply be a daily driver?
- Where, for the dollars I've allocated to the project, will that money go and how will it be best spent?
- WHY am I building this car?

You can absolutely build a great handling, great stopping automobile without going crazy, the secret is going with proven parts that are proven to work with the combination you've chosen.

Example, when I did all the mods to the Charger 4 years ago, the formula was pretty aggressive. Today, it's considered to be very mild. We, upped the ante' a bit with the Daytona, but again, didn't go overly crazy. We looked at the Charger's short comings and modified the formula - same thing will happen with the next car. It's all "Live and Learn".

[Brock Samson]

  "Next Car"?... 

[elacruze]

you can get slotted 11.75" rotors and adapters to run the Viper spec 4-piston Brembo calipers...   that should be plenty for what you want to do - plus they are still over the counter parts.    

Aaarrrgg.

Yeah, I know. But they add cost (weak argument at this point) and the brackets themselves are not shelf items.
What if I hit a Jackrabbit or tumbleweed hard enough to bend one?  
Seriously, I even took fender-benders into account when putting this package together. Once this Endless Summer is past, she'll get more upgrades.
I'm a firm believer in seeing both ends of the track at the same speed.

Kick me in the pants, I don't remember what brand-Powerslot maybe-I do have slotted cryo-treated rotors.

[Mike DC]

 

You can absolutely build a great-stopping, great-handling vehicle without going crazy.  The secret is going with proven parts that are proven to work with the combination you've chosen.

Amen. 


IMHO radical mods have their place, but they're not a necessity just to get a decent improvement over a stock setup.

[HPP]

While going to 17" or bigger wheels does open up some tires choices and does make it easy to get big rotors in the wheel, I wouldn't say it is a requirement for performance braking. I think most would agree that vintage trans am or even late model stock cars all have braking capabilities that far exceed most of our street cars, yet they do it all with 15" rims. Nothing real trick about their set ups, but they do put some thought in to component selection, material maximization, and cooling. I'm also willing to bet they spend a fair bit more for that performance than most street car owners are willing to do. So I guess like most things it comes down to a balancing act of intended application against available budget and in the case of competition, prevailing rules.

[Mike DC]

 
Yeah, there are some huge brakes jammed into 15" rims in the performance world.  NASCARS are literally hauling themselves down from 180mph for hours using brakes that fit inside 15" rims. 



However those setups look like a pretty serious effort though. They've crammed all that brake hardware into the rim, but the brakes aren't exactly liking it that way. 

The extra space of a 17" rim means there's way more cooling air reaching the rotors.  And it also gives the calipers more stopping leverage when the pads clamp onto the rotor farther out from the center of the wheel.

[Blown70]

Reminds me of a saying,   " anything can be done, how much do you want to spend?"

[G-man]

I myself will be doing the NASCAR break setup 12.19" rotors on the 15" rims. THats plenty break for the street if you ask me. Big profile tyre = good bite when the light goes green 

Any flying corners on the street and you shouldnt be diriving, so unless your going to the track, big rims etc is a waste. Thats how i decided to forget the handling of the car. Where the car handles (race track) I wont be going and on the street to be doing fast corners to need handling, you shouldnt even have a license.

[Bill Howell]

elacruze- there a lot of wheel choices out there. Evod has offered a couple times to build me Rally wheels in larger sizes, and I love those wheels. We just never have come up with a drawing I felt was dead on just larger. Their machinist now is Mike, the guy that was on Boyd Coddington's show for so long. One day I may go with them for a set. CCW makes a great selection of wheels reasonably priced, Jason Rushforth has a nice line. Now, they won't be at steel wheel prices, but you don't have to buy three piece 20s either. Wheels are one of the most important things that may a car have "THE LOOK"  IMO. You have to really look at different options and think about it, it can not be a quick rash decision.
Mr. Angry-Thanks for the kind words, coming from you that means alot. You know me from other forums and know this car WILL see plenty of road miles, not just another pretty trailor queen. We are still tuning on the suspension, changing springs, etc in prep for RTTHs next weekend. That will be the first time it will be seen, and I want to make a great first impression. Bad Penny is here in my shop tonight, and I would love nothing better than to run with it on the autocross.

I read thru the other comments since my last post. One thing to bear in mind, NASCAR uses different material entirely as far as their brakes go, so hard to compare them with street setups. Those brakes love heat and are designed for it, however they would be worthless on the street. They would never get hot enough to stop your street car on the highway. Also, they use race tires, as did the trans am series back in the day. One thing the protouring guys demand is first the car is a street car, then race car, so we require at least DOT even when running on the tract, and usually at least a 200 Treadwear. It is hard to compare that tire with a all out race tire, but remember we are about driving to and from the tract. That is why Hot Rod is so interested in the cross country trip we are doing at SEMA time and Optima challenge.

[elacruze]

Fortunately for me, I have a set of E-T slots which I bought NOS in about 1988, with BFG T/As which will roll just fine until I decide something else. I have nothing but time, I won't even see the car again until next July or so.

EVOD-WOW! Not for me, but man is that some precious jewelry.

After I do some searches to be sure I'm not just repeating, I may post up more on brakes in the appropriate forum.

[HPP]

The nascar set ups really aren't that radically different. The two biggest differences are rotor material, steel vs iron, and pad compound choice. However, if you look through the pad selection offered by any of nascar providers (wilwood, red evil, us brake, etc), you'll notice they have compounds that work as low at 600-800 degrees, which wouldn't be too awful for the street. Yes, the first few stops of the day would feel awfully slick, but after that they would start to grip well. But digging further into their choices you find the 1000, 1200, and 1400 degree compounds, and you can forget about street grip.

Also notice they use a considerable amount of ducting to force air into those puppies to help out as well. I think this is something 99.9% of street drivers never consider, much less do, but it isn't too difficult to accomplish with a little bit of fore thought and work.

Yes, race tires also accomplish HUGE amounts of grip, not just for acceleration but also braking, which is where the 17" will have a slight advantage over the 15". There are more 17" choices with more grip for less money than 15" tires. However, for the right coin, there are H,V, and even Z rated 15" tires that are d.o.t. approved and grip like race tires. Expect to spend $250-400 per tire for those though. Suddenly the $2000 spent for 17" wheels to get $175 tires look like a bargain after about the second set of rubber goes on.

[Armudster]

The nascar set ups really aren't that radically different. The two biggest differences are rotor material, steel vs iron, and pad compound choice. However, if you look through the pad selection offered by any of nascar providers (wilwood, red evil, us brake, etc), you'll notice they have compounds that work as low at 600-800 degrees, which wouldn't be too awful for the street. Yes, the first few stops of the day would feel awfully slick, but after that they would start to grip well. But digging further into their choices you find the 1000, 1200, and 1400 degree compounds, and you can forget about street grip.

Also notice they use a considerable amount of ducting to force air into those puppies to help out as well. I think this is something 99.9% of street drivers never consider, much less do, but it isn't too difficult to accomplish with a little bit of fore thought and work.

Yes, race tires also accomplish HUGE amounts of grip, not just for acceleration but also braking, which is where the 17" will have a slight advantage over the 15". There are more 17" choices with more grip for less money than 15" tires. However, for the right coin, there are H,V, and even Z rated 15" tires that are d.o.t. approved and grip like race tires. Expect to spend $250-400 per tire for those though. Suddenly the $2000 spent for 17" wheels to get $175 tires look like a bargain after about the second set of rubber goes on.

Please tell me more about them, ehat brands, and what sizes are they available, I have nothing against 16-18 wheel as long as tastefullky done, but it´s just not for me, I am a 15" guy myself, I would totally be inter4sted on building a 68 Charger with 15"s and full pro touring goodies, but everything hidden, of course!!!

[HPP]

Assuming you mean the tires, check these out. Most, but not all, of them have d.o.t. approval. All of them are for race applications, but are similar to the d.o.t. drag tires. Only these are made for handling applications.

Hoosier and Avon d.o.t. approved tires and Goodyear, Dunlap and Avon race tires;
http://www.rogerkrausracing.net/files/34176795.pdf

This is probably the newest technology 15" tire widely available;
http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/street.php?item=SportsmanSR

Well performing tires that are not very well known. These are d.o.t. approved race tires,
http://www.americanraceronline.com/racing-tires/passenger.html

One of the biggest secrets in racing, tires with built in camber. These guys offer full out racing slicks to a variety of vintage and historic tires, and d.o.t. cased tires. Finding distributors can be a problem though.
http://www.towelcityracingtires.com/

[MSRacing89]

Bill Howell - I'm not sure if I ever commented on your car, but let me just say that I have been following your build since day one and I truly think you nailed it. Perfect color choices, the wheels are tits and overall look and feel is REALLY aggressive but not overdone, simply a beautiful car.

Pro-touring:
When I build a car I always ask myself a few questions BEFORE I even put out dollar one.
- What am I going to do with this car?
- Will it be 90% street, 10% track or vice versa or somewhere in between?
- Will it simply be a daily driver?
- Where, for the dollars I've allocated to the project, will that money go and how will it be best spent?
- WHY am I building this car?

You can absolutely build a great handling, great stopping automobile without going crazy, the secret is going with proven parts that are proven to work with the combination you've chosen.

Example, when I did all the mods to the Charger 4 years ago, the formula was pretty aggressive. Today, it's considered to be very mild. We, upped the ante' a bit with the Daytona, but again, didn't go overly crazy. We looked at the Charger's short comings and modified the formula - same thing will happen with the next car. It's all "Live and Learn".

Lets be honest Mike, this is the wrong website for these type of discussions.

[Troy]

Bill Howell - I'm not sure if I ever commented on your car, but let me just say that I have been following your build since day one and I truly think you nailed it. Perfect color choices, the wheels are tits and overall look and feel is REALLY aggressive but not overdone, simply a beautiful car.

Pro-touring:
When I build a car I always ask myself a few questions BEFORE I even put out dollar one.
- What am I going to do with this car?
- Will it be 90% street, 10% track or vice versa or somewhere in between?
- Will it simply be a daily driver?
- Where, for the dollars I've allocated to the project, will that money go and how will it be best spent?
- WHY am I building this car?

You can absolutely build a great handling, great stopping automobile without going crazy, the secret is going with proven parts that are proven to work with the combination you've chosen.

Example, when I did all the mods to the Charger 4 years ago, the formula was pretty aggressive. Today, it's considered to be very mild. We, upped the ante' a bit with the Daytona, but again, didn't go overly crazy. We looked at the Charger's short comings and modified the formula - same thing will happen with the next car. It's all "Live and Learn".

Lets be honest Mike, this is the wrong website for these type of discussions.

Why?

Troy

[MSRacing89]

These threads inevitably get disrupted by the guys that do not like these types of builds.  Just got old for me.  So I go to where you can gain the knowledge of the subject and also provide it.......much more productive.

For what its worth, there is a wealth of knowledge here also in plenty of other areas.

[elacruze]

...I go to where you can gain the knowledge of the subject and also provide it...

Where's that?

FWIW, I love my Charger. It's the best one in the world. 
Don't you feel that way about your own? I would be totally CRUSHED if I discovered that all the time I spent considering my combinations and thinking about what to do with it turned out to be just the same as everyone else's... I absolutely love to see and read about everyone else's cars, because their differences help me make decisions about my own. To each their own, I say, and nobody's personal enjoyment hinges on my approval of their build, no matter what style that is.
I already know my build. I don't know everything though, so every time I see somebody else do something I didn't, I learn something.

[autodynamics]

Bill Howell - I'm not sure if I ever commented on your car, but let me just say that I have been following your build since day one and I truly think you nailed it. Perfect color choices, the wheels are tits and overall look and feel is REALLY aggressive but not overdone, simply a beautiful car.

Pro-touring:
When I build a car I always ask myself a few questions BEFORE I even put out dollar one.
- What am I going to do with this car?
- Will it be 90% street, 10% track or vice versa or somewhere in between?
- Will it simply be a daily driver?
- Where, for the dollars I've allocated to the project, will that money go and how will it be best spent?
- WHY am I building this car?

You can absolutely build a great handling, great stopping automobile without going crazy, the secret is going with proven parts that are proven to work with the combination you've chosen.

Example, when I did all the mods to the Charger 4 years ago, the formula was pretty aggressive. Today, it's considered to be very mild. We, upped the ante' a bit with the Daytona, but again, didn't go overly crazy. We looked at the Charger's short comings and modified the formula - same thing will happen with the next car. It's all "Live and Learn".

Lets be honest Mike, this is the wrong website for these type of discussions.

let me chime in here..............

i agree that d/c is NOT the place for a pro-touring machine or a "modified machine". Members here prefer a car that has "original" brakes, suspension, tires wheels and so on. We G Machiners love to drive our cars but in today's standards. who here doesn't like a car so stop not good but exceptional? or accelerate not good but great and handle really well and have all the modern amenities of a modern day car. we all agree stock is nice, but realistically  we don't like 40 yr old technology in anything. i agree that there is a wealth of info here from old members to new school guys like myself. if you ask the right questions you will get answers....some of which your not going to like.  do your research here and other places there is allot you can do to these mopars. and when done well you will enjoy them better than ever. read poke ask plenty of questions there are plenty of guys here willing to help... TO MY FELLOW PRO-TOURING MEMBERS.....CHEERS TO YOU GUYS YOU'VE MADE OUR HOBBY ENJOYABLE
hammer down fellas see you on the road...blazing the pavement.......

[Back N Black]

I would say that any charger is welcome on the site, General Lee,old school,factory restorations,pro touring and whatever configuration that's out there.Not everyone is going to like all styles of restoration but no reason not to feel welcome. I have a black charger and i know not everyone likes black. 

[kcederwall08]

While my car isn't exactly a pro-touring car yet, It definitely resembles one as of now. I haven't gotten any negative comments from anyone on this forum yet about the styling of my car. While this may not be the place to look for your custom one off technical problems, it still has a ton of information that you can use. Even If you car totally custom, there are still things that this forum could help you with. Most people here are pretty tolerant from what I have seen.

[Mike DC]

IMHO Pro Touring Chargers should get the same treatment given to GLs or Pro Street cars or any other variation  - it's fine to talk about it here sometimes.  Just be willing to take some disagreement in stride, and don't clog up the forums for everyone else with too many threads about it at once.

[G-man]

If its a Charger 66-74 its welcome, any sort of build as mike has stated.

1 Thing I have learnt in my search for a guitar to suit my needs is this...

some shop owners/workers who also play guitar last 20-30 years down here in Australia will say and have said countless times "Maton (the guitar brand tommy emmanuel uses) is absolutely rubbish, they have no sound, they are poorly built etc you need to buy Martin's or Taylors.

Well big question is Why is the Best g uitarist in the world using a rubbish guitar then? Obviously it does what he needs as a player.

Sound is subjective, people say blackwood is total garbage others say maple is and others say rosewood is.

Some like round girls   some like slim girls others like them slightly built (gym girls *wink*)


The point here is that everyone will have an opinion. I say tall wheels are not good because a muscle car should look aggressive/tough, thats a 15" wheel. I also say to keep to that you need them nice and fat which means you need to mini tub the car to give the car the maximum "tough - Hulk" look.

Others will say "Yeah but 15" wheels cant break propperly and a lowered car with 17" wheels looks pro-touring, something that can handle any day of the week, so 15" wheels are pointless in todays environment"

Well...

Blonde, brunette or red head?

You get the idea.

There is no 1 fits all. Some like something, others like something else.

What I did learn however is, you cant go bad mouth another style of build simply because its not you. Thats like the shop owner bad mouthing Maton and yet the best guitarist in the world that does 320+ Shows per year (thats almost 7 days a week playing non stop) uses MATON, why the hell would he if it did suck? Yet the guy bad mouthing doesnt even do concerts or even close to as good a player as Tommy so who is he to bad mouth what the best player uses? However Maton isnt for everyone (like its not for me).

So, build what you like, to 1 man a 100 dollar guitar may sound 'exactly' how he wanted while another wont find the sound he wants till he spends 10 000. Is the 10k better? Not to the man that likes the sound of a $100 guitar.

Build what you like, stock, modified, pro stock, pro-touring, G-machine, 200 000 dollar car or 50 000 car. What suits you is the best. Opinions in the end mean nothing. If I buy a guitar based on what someone else says 'sounds tonaly correct' i will end up not happy with it. Thats why i have my "own ears" to hear what "I like". You have your own 'eyes' to see what you like. What you like, what your eyes say is beautiful, thats what you build and all else means nothing.

And the last thing I have figured is, if a question is asked about pro-touring build and the person replying isnt replying to answer the question asked as he doesnt know anything about it, just replying to say "thats a bad idea", yeah says who, you? shouldnt even reply as its nothing to do with what was asked.

Find what you like the look of and do it (ofcourse if something you like is actualy dangerous, then people should warn you why not to go that way and try be helpfull explaining things not just its bad looks horrible to me dont do it - educated reasons not personal taste opinions)

I say Ferrari is rubbish because it looks totaly retarded in the front, but its $300 000 dollar car. I say a 68 Dodge Charger is 'way better' (20 000 dollar car) than a Ferrari. So Mr rich man dont waste your money on a ferrari.

U see how things will work out if u went off opinions?

[autodynamics]

 

[Rolling_Thunder]

I have not gotten any negative comments about my Pro-Touring Charger yet...    except the fact it is not on the road yet   haha

[Blakcharger440]

.

[69bronzeT5]

VERY nice!

[dodgey68]

well i spoze the blower is higher than the roof??

[JB400]

It looks like it's been squashed.  I don't like it