How did you learn to restore cars?

[beware the sleeper]

I am looking for good books/videos/stories pretty much anything I can get my hands on, figure I can just study my ass off while I am waiting, I wasnt lucky enough to had any car guys in my life, but I am an engineer so like, technical stuff doesnt scare me at all.  Basicly just anything that is helpful, I am in need of a day job for the next 4-5 years and this is something i can really get into, i just have a real passion about it, so I figured itd be good to pick up on.   That being said, I called a bunch of shops and pretty much came up with nothing, even offering to come and work free a couple days a week just to learn, so that is kind of out, as well as being able to afford a trade school.  But hey, if you just learned from a buddy or something, itll make a good story so feel free.

[Tilar]

In 1973 when I was a junior in high school, I went to a vocational school and took up agricultural and industrial mechanics. It taught me the basics of engines, transmissions, gearboxes, electrical, hydraulics which really set my life in motion as a mechanic. Since then I've owned my own auto repair shop, Spent 17 years at a Ditch Witch dealership as a mechanic and service manager and another 5 years as the parts manager. I've had a hand in getting a good friend into the body business by teaching him the basics that I really learned on my own. Of course now he's gone way beyond what I know.

I've rebuilt a ton of cars... I used the term "Rebuilt" because most of the owners of these cars were on a budget so their idea of a restoration was overhaul the engine, Maybe put in a new wiring harness or at least patch up the old one and then throw a paint job at it. That is not a restoration.

Since it sounds like you might have a little time on your hands to study, I would suggest finding a local car club that has a good number of cars in the year ranges that you want to learn about. Go to the meetings and find people that are in the middle of a repair or restoration and just offer to give them a hand on their project, Just be sure to let them know you really don't know a lot about it but you are willing to learn. Most people would be glad to get an axtra pair of hands to help out on a project.

I don't know all the shortcuts that the professionals know and I'm sure there are better ways to do some of the procedures, but I pick up a little here and there.

[2Gunz]

The best way to learn is just to do it.

There is a wealth of information on this site and pretty much anything you can think of as been covered in detail.
You get stuck look at the forum you will find the answer.

Me personally I spent a lot of time in the garage as a kid working on stuff with my dad.

Many times we would be working on something and i would ask him if he knew what he was doing.
The answer was "nope we are going to find out".

I take the same philosophy on my projects.

[DavidSL]

Good post.

I'm in the same boat as you - I'm just getting into the whole Mopar thing and have at least a year before I can afford one of my own. I picked up the book 'Project Challenger' and that has some good stuff in it - but I won't be going back to read it until I've learnt some more stuff about the cars themselves, as it isn't a how-to guide so much as a journal of what was done.

I just ordered this: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/mo9thedensps1.html based on the recommendation of a member here - b5blue. I haven't received it yet but it outlines Mopar engines and the inner workings - so that's gonna be a help in UNDERSTANDING what's going on. But like you, I wanna get my hands dirty, much to the disbelief of most of my friends and family (I've never been a 'hands-on' guy, really). I haven't tried any local mechanics - because around here it's very standard stuff. I don't mean to just give up - but really I think what the above member said is going to be best for me - I plan to join Mopar UK and hopefully build up a few connections with people through that. Then I'll see if anyone has any projects they are working on that they want a hand on, and hopefully by then I'll at least understand how everything works/fits together so I start understanding how to put it all together as a beautiful car.

Let me know how you get on!  

[dkn1997]

i wouldn't call what most of us here do "restoring a car"  there are a few who can blow one up and put it back together, hang sheetmetal, paint, weld, etc....but in the grand scheme of things it's not too much of a percentage of the total amount of people who own these cars.  take out the ones who can write a check for everything and the rest of us is what's left.

I'd say that the rest of us started out loving cars (like the full resto guys, we just didn't take it as far) and working on them because of pride or lack of money.  just learn as you go.  I started messing with cars when I was 16 because nobody would fix my junk....just dove in.  Now, it's a bit easier with the internet and answers are a click away.  still have to jump in there you know...... my advice for anyone who wants to know more is to get out the tools and have at it.  you will end up "paying" for a few lessons ("those really were left hand threads weren't they!!")

The mistakes are fine, and it makes for good thread on here because no matter what you have done, someone will always confess to doing something dumber.

[Mike DC]

 
There is a big difference between the mechanical work on a car versus the bodywork.  (Although interior work seems to call for some of both.)



These two major categories demand some different skill sets.  And I think they really appeal to different parts of the brain in a lot of ways.

The mechanical work involves more math, more keeping track of stats, etc.  The bodywork is much more of a hands-on art form, like building a styrene plastic model on a huge scale.   




My point is that although we can all usually do some of both, most of us eventually decide that we're more adept at one side or the other of these two areas.  Once you really know these things, you can usually tell a mechanic's car from a paint guy's car right off the bat. 

And if you're gonna be farming out portions of the resto then of course you wanna farm out your weaker points. 

   

[bull]

The main thing I've learned is that I don't want to do it again.

[Brock Samson]

 

[beware the sleeper]

haha, some good responses, yeah that car club would be a good move, I just cant get to one at the moment, but def in the future.

[Silver R/T]

took auto body course at local college

[BIRD67]

I'm 15, still learning, but most of the stuff I learn is through trial and error and through plenty of magazines and on here

[Mike DC]

   
One thing - don't get into major panel-replacing bodywork on your first restoration.  And definitely not structural rust problems with rotted framrails, etc. 


You can put weak welds on a quarter patch panel without risking killing somebody if it lets go.   

 

[SFRT]

my experience messing with motorcycles made my 'resto' pretty easy. When I came up against something I felt unsure of, I'd hire in a guy to my space and basically watch the entire procedure. picked up a lot of stuff that way and kept the 'quality control' as good as I could. I did go in and re-do some stuff after the expert did it to make extra sure. I did a TON of research, and some stuff there wasnt much info on (like rebuilding the window mechanisms) I puzzled out on my own. I do not have the equipment needed to do 'real' machining so that stuff got farmed out and so far so good everything seems to have been done correctly. In the process I bought just about evry tool imaginable, so the new project, which is also a B body should go a lot smoother and economical than the charger did...and since I ran into basically no problems that didnt get solved in a few days, my confidence level for the new car is fairly high.

seems to me 80% of it is just basic shit/grunt work...like removing and cleaning every single piece, bead blasting stuff,stripping off all the old paint and primer, etc. I think the most important part is really organizing the build, figuring out what you have, what you need and keeping it all group in logical assemblies on shelves or in boxes....I got as much stuff as I could powdercoated and so on...I think the key is to NOT pay some one their 50-80 bucks an hour to do all that nitpicky stuff any one  with two functional arms and a basic brain can really do.

I figure I put in at least 600-700 hours on that sort of stuff, so right there was 30 or 40 grand I got to spend on top notch parts instead of some slacker in a body shop.

[beware the sleeper]

ah no doubt, well I am planning on going pretty in depth, I just need to know where the depth is ya know.  I have some haynes manuals, not a lot of em but just a few general ones, and i was gonna study up before I do too much, I might look into an auto body class down the road, not really happenin right now.  anyone have any good book or dvd reccomends, I was gonna get a copy of project charger that got mentioned.

[SFRT]

project charger is useless. id get the factory manual service and chassis assembly reprints and ask lots and lots of questions here. this site and a few of the moparts tech threads solved a lot of my problems in a flash.

[DavidSL]

I'm as new to this as you are, and whilst I mentioned Project Charger (although looking back I mistakenly called it 'Project Challenger' - too much time looking through loads of different muscle car sites I think!  ) I was trying to get across how much of a journal it is, rather than a manual of how to do it. I bought it expecting the same thing as you - a step by step guide on how to restore a car. In a way, it is - but it's more for people who already know how to do the stuff he talks about.

Realistically, I don't expect to buy a car and do much bodywork. I'm not so much in this to restore a muscle car as I am to buy one, make it my own and care for it. Basically to keep another muscle car alive in the World.  But at the same time, like you, I want to know EVERYTHING there is to know, but I just can't see myself painting my car myself. At the moment I'm focussing on the mechanical side - knowing everything about the engine, looking under the hood and knowing EXACTLY what I'm looking at - knowing how to get the most power from my engine, and knowing exactly WHY I want that engine in my car in the first place. This is the kind of stuff I'm starting with.

Of course, I've come into the car thing quite late. I've always loved old cars to look at, but until now my passion hadn't developed any further. I'm 27 - and I wish I'd found this enthusiasm 10 years ago. Only bonus is, 10 years ago there was no way I would have been able to buy one of these cars...

Avoid Project Charger, I'd say. It's a great guide, but it's about 2 years ahead of my personal experience and knowledge, and I don't expect I'll go rushing back to it just yet.

[Tilar]

If you're wanting to learn things like how an engine works, Wikipedia actually has a decent write up on it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine

Something you could do for a learning experiance is to take an old lawn mower that still runs but nobody uses, Take it apart, Check out the insides of the engine and then put it back together using the actual torque specs and see if you can make it run again. If it doesn't run, you're not anything other than a few hours work.

If it's a riding mower you could take the transaxle apart and see how it works. Granted it's different on a car but at least you could see first hand how it works. The principle is basically the same.

[kingjoop]

The main thing I've learned is that I don't want to do it again.

i 2nd that 

[BlueSS454]

The main thing I've learned is that I don't want to do it again.

I thought the same thing after I finished my first Chevelle, but here I am another Chevelle and a Charger later and getting readyt to do another Chevelle.

Best way I found is to just do it.  I took a local class to do body/paint and I already am fairly good with the mechanical aspect of a car.  I can do engines, rears, suspensions, etc but have not yet fumbled around with an automatic transmission.  Interiors....taught myself how to do those.

[beware the sleeper]

yeah, basicly my goal here, is when i see beat up and torn up forgotten cars, espescially muscle cars, it makes me really sad, I dont wanna talk too crazy, but in a few years when this contracts up, I am gonna have some HEAPS of disposable income, and I decided the most rewarding thing I could do is try to find and bring these cars back from the grave. I am just kind of stuck for a few years before I can start really earning again, so I figured now would be a great time to pick up a lot of skills, cause it sounds stupid to some, but I want to be that guy, dive right into a destroyed car and eventually pull out the amazing one it used to be.  I am really technical minded, and putting in a lot or long hard work is fine too, just lookin to get started in the mean time.   yeah the engine stuff is great, I keep scooping up haynes manuals, like the general ones, how to's, I am finding little vids and stuff here and there, but I was mainly just trying not to bug the ever living crap out of all you guys while I did it, basicly, right now, I am looking for an overview type thing, as far as like where to start and how, everyone gets really general on that kind of stuff ya know. 

[aussiemuscle]

I did a course at the local tafe (technical college) when i was unemployed. they have all the right tools and teachers who are mechanics by trade. they have old cars there, so it doesn't matter if you do it wrong (like mixing up the spark plug cables ). i was unemployed at the time, so the Govt paid for it.

also having your own car out the back is a good idea if you aren't afraid to pull things to bits. just don't do it on your daily driver car, it's too much hassle trying to work on it one day and drive it the next.

[DavidSL]

I now know the basics of how the engine works by using this site: http://www.carbibles.com/  

These pages talk about the engine itself: http://www.carbibles.com/fuel_engine_bible.html, though the first page is the best. The 2nd and third go into the fuel types, emissions and octane levels, so whilst that's all great stuff, for now I just want to learn the mechanical. I think that site is amazing - and thought so before I discovered all the other chapters on there, too. It has everything from suspension to transmission, it even covers tyre types! Granted, reading through pages and pages of information is a little daunting, and I'm guilty of just putting it down sometimes to pick up my PS3. But have a look, it's free, and it's great.

I just received that Mopar Engines book I pointed out a while back: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/mo9thedensps1.html through the post. Amazing. I don't understand most of it - but how great is it to have an encyclopedia, basically, of everything I could ever need to know about muscle car engines? I'm just gonna go through it and makes notes of anything I don't understand. There's a lot. Yesterday I looked up 'differential' in Google, and found this site: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/

Again, more information. The great thing about these websites (both of them) is that they have moving diagrams explaining how things work.

In January I plan to join Mopar UK so that I can meet people at car shows and stuff, but until then, I'm reading and learning and making notes.

[elacruze]

yeah, basicly my goal here, is when i see beat up and torn up forgotten cars, espescially muscle cars, it makes me really sad, I dont wanna talk too crazy, but in a few years when this contracts up, I am gonna have some HEAPS of disposable income, and I decided the most rewarding thing I could do is try to find and bring these cars back from the grave. I am just kind of stuck for a few years before I can start really earning again, so I figured now would be a great time to pick up a lot of skills, cause it sounds stupid to some, but I want to be that guy, dive right into a destroyed car and eventually pull out the amazing one it used to be.  I am really technical minded, and putting in a lot or long hard work is fine too, just lookin to get started in the mean time.   yeah the engine stuff is great, I keep scooping up haynes manuals, like the general ones, how to's, I am finding little vids and stuff here and there, but I was mainly just trying not to bug the ever living crap out of all you guys while I did it, basicly, right now, I am looking for an overview type thing, as far as like where to start and how, everyone gets really general on that kind of stuff ya know. 

Hey man where you working? I'm in Kandahar Afghanistan on the MRAP program.

To stay inside the thread, one major hurdle to restoration (or any sort of car work, really) especially if you're young, is TOOLS. If you don't have the right tool for the job, the job won't get done correctly, or if it does it won't get done as quickly and easily as it could have. If you needed to restore a car completely and needed every tool from zero, you'd need to spend as much on the tools as you would on a farmed-out restoration.
Take good stock of your tools, your strong and weak motivations (body, interior, powertrain) and plan for what you'll need. I like most began with the drivetrain-because it was a lot easier to pay for a clunker and rebuild the carb than it was to find a nice car cheap!
If I was 25 again, if there was a quality restoration shop locally I'd look for work or at least hang time there. Nothing like free help to get someone to train you!

[Cooter]

Finally got to take Auto mechanics Junior and senior year in High School...this is where I met my teacher..He was good to me as we were both Mopar fans..I lost my dad to suicide at age 13, so he filled his shoes for me and taught me alot of what I know bout engines...You just never know how much that little snot nosed, punk kid is really listening until it's something that he/she's interested in...As for Body work, I sent my first car (1967 Belv. II) to a professional Body shop for weld in rust reapir in the quarters...When I got it back, the body line above the rear fenders were gone about half the way over the wheel well..this puzzled me because they were there form the factory and I jsut assumed the pro's knew what they were doing...I went home and redid it the best way I knew by watching my best friends older cousin and I've NEVER paid anybody to date again....

[Brock Samson]

  "did it the best way I knew by watching my best friends older cousin and I've NEVER paid anybody to date again...."

no more hookers for you eh?..  sorry,..

[Troy]

  "did it the best way I knew by watching my best friends older cousin and I've NEVER paid anybody to date again...."

no more hookers for you eh?..  sorry,..

Sad, I thought exactly the same thing.

Troy

[DavidSL]

Nothing to do with restoration, but good to know:

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/mechanical-problems-technical-chat/50657-everything-you-wanted-know-about-car-measurements-hp-tq-gear-ratios-etc.html

[TylerCharger69]

Me?...Well...I consider myself to be somewhere between a novice and an intermediate.......How am i learning?    Trial and error!!!   OH!!!   And a lot of help from members of this forum too!!!   Gotta give the credit where credit is due!!!

[69bronzeT5]

Mainly from my dad and grandpa. I grew up around cars, my dad restored a '71 Camaro Z/28 and a '70 Buick GSX for his friend. He also fixed his friend's other cars including a '65 Galaxie 427 Police Interceptor, '68 California Special Mustang & a '70 AMC AMX. My dad also sold a '68 AMC Rebel for another friend.

[beware the sleeper]

sweet yeah, sadly I didnt have anyone around growin up into cars, and I tried to take autoshop in school but all the tools had been stolen, so I just sat there and did diagrams and crap all day.  thanks for the websites so far, I am checking them all out as we speak.

[beware the sleeper]

that car bibles site is bad ass, I have read like the entire site twice, got a real firm grasp of everything, major props, thanks man

[DavidSL]

that car bibles site is bad ass, I have read like the entire site twice, got a real firm grasp of everything, major props, thanks man

Aw crap, you're overtaking me by a longshot - I've read the first page on engines, and then got lost on these forums talking about the cars!

But yeah, I found that site and thought it was great - it wasn't until I'd printed out the entire section about Internal Combustion Engines that I realised the site had chapters pertaining to everything you need to know!

My dad used to be a mechanic, and I think he's pretty surprised at my sudden interest - until now I'd never really talked about it to him. It helps because he can give me some pointers when I don't know what something is - but there's a lot of stuff unique to Mopars that he's unfamiliar with. We just don't have that kinda thing in the UK much.

Out of interest, what cars are you interested in? You looking at Chargers?

[Chatt69chgr]

The guy I ran around with was a mechanical genius.  I learned by helping him.  He had a 52 ford with 239 flathead and 3-speed manual.  Together, we replaced one clutch, two drive shafts and one rear axle.  All sourced from the local junkyard.  My first "body work" was fixing the 50 pickup truck front fender that I had mashed in that belonged to his dad while I had it borrowed hauling sawdust out of the woods to sell for $$.  I offered to pay to have it fixed.  His dad wouldn't hear of it.  He just wanted me to take the fender off, beat it out, and paint it with some spray cans.  He sat on the front porch and answered my questions.  He said I wouldn't learn anything if I just paid someone else to fix it.  I've been doing all my own work since.  You just have to dive in.  The local tech schools usually have a text that accompanies their course.  Get a copy and read it.  Attend a adult education night school for auto repair.  Read car magazines and car books from your local magazine store.  Get catalogs and study them.  Find out where the local cruse-in's are and make some friends.  They will be glad to have you come over and help them.   Watch the "car" fix it programs on TV.  And don't forget to have fun. 

[beware the sleeper]

yeah im lookin at over haulin now, lookin for some other tv shows.


that site is great, I really like third gen chargers, Altho theres a few others that I would love to get my hands on, like 72 road runners are sexy, i like some of the 70's chevelles too.

[furbyboy]

 

[b5blue]

I learned a lot (when young) about mechanics by repairing what I broke. I would recommend spending some time in some junk yards, service stations, local car type hang outs, and the fore mentioned car clubs. Network yourself out there and be ready to pay some dues. It's one thing to read about something but to spend days, weeks, months and years covered in grime and scratched up, sweating your nuts off is another. As a hobby you decide when and what you do, as a job you do what you get, when you get it and there is no room for error or you go hungry. I cut my teeth in a (mostly UK) import restoration shop by doing "the crappy" stuff none wanted to do. Disassembling and cleaning, sand blasting, pressure washing, steam cleaning, hours fighting rust, dirty grease caked assembly's only to end up at the parts washer cleaning them till spotless. The only thing that broke me out of that rut was my skill in electronics, once that came into play I was redeemed. (Still poorly paid...but greatly respected given old Lucas's bad reputation)         

[Wicked72]

I watched my grandfather and he let me get into his projects and learned hands on. However my grandfather was all about getting it done and not a ton on details lol but I am extremely anal. He keeps telling me to just shoot some primer and paint on my charger and throw a seat back in it and roll haha. I cant just do that, all the cars ive owned I learned by myself on the high detail part so my baby now is getting the full tare down and I am going through every part of the car to make it damn near perfect! I would just do some searches on google and watch some how to vids on the stuff you want to get done. And take your time!!!!! GOOD LUCK!! You can also hit us up!

[Dans 68]

I grew up with minibikes and motorcycles, and learned to take care of them. Having an older brother who was into the motorcycle scene also helped.    Racing motocross also helped to "inspire" me to be a good mechanic with both bikes and trucks (we had to get them to the track somehow  ) as money was tight. I had a few pick-ups to tinker with during my High School years, and it just seemed natural to continue with cars. My college car was a '68 VW Beetle, with a Hurst shifter, rust, and lousy paint job. I kept that thing running through College (and picked up most of my speeding tickets) while I received my degree in Mechanical Engineering, which I believe I undertook getting because of my mechanical and anal aptitude.    My roommate in college rebuilt a VW engine in our apartment foyer (I helped).

Hmmm, this is getting a bit windy...just have the desire to get your hands dirty, get a few tools and get to it. Everything else will follow.

Dan

[68X426]

I can only add that I am still learning, after 5 decades.  

Please don't ask how I know that.

[moparstuart]

I can only add that I am still learning, after 5 decades.  

Please don't ask how I know that.

[Cooter]

There's a saying that "If you do something you love, you will never work a day in your life"...


I don't buy this, cause If you turn a hobby something you love, where everyday you are doing it in and out for PITA, picky as hell, customers, it WILL become well, like a job and start to become "unfun"...I love to restore old cars and see peoples reactions to where it came from to where it's goes, but doing it full time day in day out, never.....

[Highbanked Hauler]

 I spent 38 years doing flat rate paint & collision work for the motoring public.

[Drop Top]

I grew up on a rather large farm. I was painting tractors, equipment and patching up old trucks by the time I was 13. My dad would hire old drunk painters to patch up this stuff and I learned what not to do. I painted my high school car at 16, then started painting my buddys cars. By the time I got out of high school I was painting my first Mopar a 69 super bee. Did some other Mopars over the years Chargers Challengers Cudas Road Runners and a few other other brand cars. Anyway by the time I was 30 I lost my Dad and fate would have it I lost most of my Dads property and money to IRS. But I still had a rather large shop in my back yard and a passion for cars. Through one of my ventures I met a man named Bill Cushenbery. I stripped a few cars for him useing Plastic Media. Had a chance to work for him and became very good friends. He tought me as much as he could before he pased away. He even worked out of my shop fro awile. Then over the years I just improved with age. I still live in the house I grew up in and working out of the same shop I started out in. I'm 52 tomarrow. I don't work anymore, because I love what I do. The latest Mopar that I'm doing is a 69 Charger for a customer and a 72 Dart Swinger That will belong to my oldest grandson. He's 5 right now and he helps me as much as possable. He was over her 2 day in a row this week and he showed up here to afternoon.

[Supercharged Riot]

What basically everyone else said above me.


Just dive into it.
Learn as you go.
Theres no way you'll learn everything in theory without taking a stab at it
Sometimes you learn a pricey lesson with mistakes, but that's life.

Just do things safe.

[bakerhillpins]

  "did it the best way I knew by watching my best friends older cousin and I've NEVER paid anybody to date again...."

no more hookers for you eh?..  sorry,..

Sad, I thought exactly the same thing.

Troy

Your not the only ones...

What basically everyone else said above me.


Just dive into it.
Learn as you go.
Theres no way you'll learn everything in theory without taking a stab at it
Sometimes you learn a pricey lesson with mistakes, but that's life.

Just do things safe.

Er well, just make sure that your pricey mistake didn't consume all your cash.  Don't ask me how I know.

Life is full of hard lessons, I've learned to listen to folks that have done it before and heed their warning. I just hope in the process I don't annoy them too much.