Need help, engine clunking

[charge1]

Took the car out for gas tonight and on the return trip (Less that 3 miles) the car started to idle ruff and while driving a lound clunking started under the hood car was running real ruff Pulled over to the shoulder and shut it down. Oil pressure was normal for this car (about 60 PSi idle 75/80 under acceleration) and the temp was about 180.  It's a brand new crate engine from indy with about 150 miles on it   ( motor was Dyno'ed by indy and broken in by them).  Started the car after I let it sit and it idled ok for about a minute then the clunking started again. Had the car towed home. I'm not an engine builder and I've got alot into this any ideas were to start.

Thanks for the help. Bryan

[A383Wing]

I got tons of ideas....none of which are any good....sounds like internal engine problem to me....lifters pumping up? Valves hitting pistons?

Engine under warranty? 

[charge1]

Not sure.  Indys web site says 30 days from date of purchase.  I bought the motor in april and just put it in the car in july.  So much for 30 days

[TylerCharger69]

Sounds to me like its okay until it gets up to temperature from what you're describing.....Maybe a wiring or ignition problem when it gets hot???  I've had that happen.....or the wind causing a wire to wiggle around......When you say clunking.....do you mean it's missing?  Or you hear metal to metal contact??

[charge1]

to be honest almost sound like I'm missing a spark plug. Loud clunking in some sort of rythm. I didnt let it do it to long didnt want to hurt it anymore than it was

[firefighter3931]

Stuff like this is difficult to diagnose without actually being there to hear the sound in person. The clunking sound could be many things. Check your converter bolts and make sure they haven't backed off....that's a good place to start.

Is the noise at the top of the engine ? Near the valvecovers ?

What type of engine ? Cam and rocker setup ?

Need lots of additional information before even venturing a guess. 



Ron

[charge1]

Ron

Its a 500 street wedge from indy
10.25 to 1
440 ez heads
hyd comp 509 cam
s/r 1.5 roller rockers

[charge1]

The noise just started as I was driving home no other problems thus far, started as a small tick then just to an uncontrolable clunking noise to were the whole engine was shaking. I restarred it and at idle it was ok for about a minute then staterd again to where the motor wanted to stall

[firefighter3931]

Start with the converter bolts....just one of those coming loose will create quite a racket and drag the engine down. Those bolts have shallow heads and there is not much clearance between them and the block. Look for witness marks on the lower end of the block and on the bolt heads. I'm hoping that you used the correct converter bolts and loc-tited them in.

Report back with your findings and we can assess the situation at that point.  


Ron

[mally69]

 

[charge1]

I used arp convertor bolts and I checked them toady that not an issue. I guess i will pull the valve covers next unless there are other options. Bryan

[firefighter3931]

I used arp convertor bolts and I checked them toady that not an issue. I guess i will pull the valve covers next unless there are other options. Bryan

Ok, time to pull the valvecovers and check things out. Look for bent pushrods or possibly a broken rocker adjuster. With hyd cams/lifters it's possible you have a collapsed lifter.

Ron

[charge1]

Ron
Took the covers off and found a broken pushrod. Called indy they wil be sending one out with new valve cover gaskets.  Call me crazy but withy 150 or so miles on new motor they are charging me for the pushrod and gaskets. Their customer service is lacking some.

[charge1]

I usesd a magnet to clean out the head got all the big piecesand used the magnet just to clean it up. Do you think its a problem just replacing that one pushrod or should I look for something from them I'm a little concerned or do pucshrod break all the time?

[c00nhunterjoe]

if it were my engine i would be removing the intake so i can get the lifter out and inspect it and the cam lobe

[firefighter3931]

Ron
Took the covers off and found a broken pushrod.

Ok, now we have the source of your noise. The next big question is why did the pushrod break ? 

I usesd a magnet to clean out the head got all the big piecesand used the magnet just to clean it up. Do you think its a problem just replacing that one pushrod or should I look for something from them I'm a little concerned or do pucshrod break all the time?

The magnet works good to recover all the large pieces but are you sure you got all of it out ? If it was just a defective pushrod then you should be fine just replacing it but i have to agree with Joe's statement below :

if it were my engine i would be removing the intake so i can get the lifter out and inspect it and the cam lobe

The lifter and lobe that corresponds with that pushrod really needs to be looked at to determine why it failed. I'm assuming that the cup on the top of that pushrod broke....correct ? I would probably inspect all of the others just to make sure there are no cracks or discoloration on the cups. The rocker arm adjusters should also be looked at closely as well.

Post some pics when you get it apart so we can see...



Ron

[Steve P.]

Joe and Ron are right on the money. You need to inspect EVERYTHING that has to do with that push rod and you MUST get ALL the shrapnel out of the motor. You have to pull the intake and valley pan to inspect the lifter and get any chunks out of there. Check the cam lobe for any obvious damage as well.

You said this happened just after gassing up. I wonder if you didn't pick up a shot of water and hydro the cylinder..... 

[charge1]

Ron
Took the covers off and found a broken pushrod.

Ok, now we have the source of your noise. The next big question is why did the pushrod break ? 

I usesd a magnet to clean out the head got all the big piecesand used the magnet just to clean it up. Do you think its a problem just replacing that one pushrod or should I look for something from them I'm a little concerned or do pucshrod break all the time?

The magnet works good to recover all the large pieces but are you sure you got all of it out ? If it was just a defective pushrod then you should be fine just replacing it but i have to agree with Joe's statement below :

if it were my engine i would be removing the intake so i can get the lifter out and inspect it and the cam lobe

The lifter and lobe that corresponds with that pushrod really needs to be looked at to determine why it failed. I'm assuming that the cup on the top of that pushrod broke....correct ? I would probably inspect all of the others just to make sure there are no cracks or discoloration on the cups. The rocker arm adjusters should also be looked at closely as well.

Post some pics when you get it apart so we can see...



Ron

Yes it did break at the cup and I've got the head lean up real nice. The other side of the push rod is smooth and clean with no scaring. There is a small scar ofn the bottom side of the rocker were the broken pushrod was hitting but thats it.

[charge1]

here are a few pics of the broken push rod

[elacruze]

Ruh Roh!

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Number=5468441

"well this is the 2nd pushrod in 2 weeks that i have broken in my new motor.. first one snapped off at the tip where they press it on..the second was i havent found yet.. it is laying down in the lifter valley and will open it up tomorrow and see whats left...These are some REAL JUNK !!

"I have seen a bunch of Indy pushrods fail. Ends come out, crack and split, bend, tips break off. I think I have a set I make adjustable measuring pushrods and give them to all my friends...LOL

"I had a cup break off on my pushrod a couple of weeks ago.

"yep, i broke the tip off one before it left the shop.

"Yes,I've said it till I'am blue in the face.Them pushrods are junk.I have about 20 off them with the tip broke off."

----------------------------

I helped my friend in Michigan put together his 8.60 sec '88 Daytona 572" wedge. He used Indy top end because it was the best available-he thought. From the beginning, Indy was no help whatsoever with Customer Service. The rocker arms they send didn't have offset to fit the heads. The replacements they sent (at his cost shipping) lasted about 10 runs before they stretched out and started breaking below the shaft. Pushrods bent, keepers started deforming grooves. This motor never ever saw the high side of 6200 RPM. He was so mad he milled the Indy logos off of everything.
Fortunately for him, Dave Hughes at Hughes Engines gave him the Customer Service that Indy wouldn't. He also provided springs and rockers that lasted two whole seasons without failure. For myself, I'll never deal directly with Indy again and I won't buy anything with their name on it if something else is available. Since I'm not in the market to run 8 second 1/4 miles, that will probably be never.
I don't often rant, especially on companies that make something nobody else does. But Indy takes the cake for Arrogance and not just poor but MEAN customer service.

[charge1]

I looked around at several engine builders before I bought my crate from indy. I guess I just got sucked up by their name. That wont happen next time

[firefighter3931]

here are a few pics of the broken push rod

Thanks for the pics. It looks like there is some discoloration at the top where the cup end is pressed in. I've seen lots of posts about Indy pushrods....enough that i wouldn't be comfortable running them in my engine. 

If it were mine....i'd be pulling the intake and having a close look at the lifters and rocker arm adjusters for signs of wear. The other thing i would be doing is ordering up a set of Smith Brothers pushrods...those are pretty much bulletproof. It sucks to have to buy parts twice....been there done that. 



Ron

[mally69]

Smith brother's all the way. Thats what i have been running and alot of poeple i know use them and i havent heard anything like this happening with theirs.