The Penske-Donahue Javelin

[Ghoste]

If you are a Trans Am fan I don't want to be misunderstood here, I have huge respect for Penske as a team owner and nothing but awe for Mark Donahue as a driver.  But, is there anyone besides myself that thinks too much is made of how quickly they were able to make the Javelin dominate the series?  The other factory teams were out of it by then, were the independents any match for AMC at that time?  Was the competition still that fierce or was Donahue so good that you think he could have driven anything and taken over the season?

[bull]

I'm glad we're not talking about Phil Donahue.

[Ghoste]

I won't do a search but that has to be one of the goofier looking pics of a man who I imagine has a lot of goofy pics in his background.
Mark Donahue was mans man who struck fear into the hearts of girlie punks like that.
(but could he have made that Javelin dominate if the Big 3 were still involved??)

[Aero426]

If you are a Trans Am fan I don't want to be misunderstood here, I have huge respect for Penske as a team owner and nothing but awe for Mark Donahue as a driver.  But, is there anyone besides myself that thinks too much is made of how quickly they were able to make the Javelin dominate the series?  The other factory teams were out of it by then, were the independents any match for AMC at that time?  Was the competition still that fierce or was Donahue so good tht youthink he could have driven anything and taken over the season?

For 1970, Penske and Donohue basically threw away the ideas that were in the cars the Jeffords team ran in 1968-69 and started over.   They won less than halfway through the season.   I think it is very telling that Mark lost the drivers championship by one point in 1970.    This was all against the factory Fords in a head to head fight.    So they were very close to pulling it off in the first year of the program.    The new Michael Argetsinger book on Donohue points out that they got relatively little cooperation from AMC Engineering.  

It would have been interesting to see how things might have worked for Chrysler had Penske run one of their programs.

[Ghoste]

I didn't know there was a new book out on Donahue.  Details?

Oh, and you make an extremely good point btw.

[Aero426]

Here's the link.   It's called "Mark Donohue - Technical Excellence at Speed".   $39.95 list price.    It is a detailed story of his life.    The author gave a talk on Mark up here in Milwaukee a couple months ago.   Click the link below.

http://www.bullpublishing.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=117

[Ghoste]

Do you know if Chrysler ever tried to get them?

[Aero426]

Do you know if Chrysler ever tried to get them?

I've never heard that they did.    But I think they could have done something for the Chrysler program - probably better than Autodynamics.   Getting back to the AMC's, the 68-69 Javelins were real pigs in T/A, even with Follmer and Revson driving them in '68.    

[b5blue]

Ghoste, good topic! I was 15 (in 70) and loved T.A. back then. As I learned about cars I remember realizing AMC didn't have the chops to develop as fast as the big 3 did. Factory support had to be weak, they didn't have much money. 

[Ghoste]

Let me throw this out there, do you think Penske or Donahue could have been such a dominant force without being together?  Assume all things being equal of course as Roger Penske was agreat driver in his own right and his wiles as a team owner would have meant that he still had a top shelf driver.  Donahue too, would not have been an independent, he would have hooked up with a good team.  Say for example, Penske had Follmer in 1970-71 and Donahue was driving for Bud Moore, what then?

[Brock Samson]

 this is sure an interesting topic... 
Dan Gurney (AAR) was no slouch either ya' know.




here's an interesting link...

http://www.a2zracer.com/page45.html

[Ghoste]

He sure wasn't and he was never too pleased with the way he negotiated a deal with Chrysler and then they split his budget in half so that Dodge could field a team as well.  I wonder how much (if any) better Chrysler would have done if they had let Plymouth concentrate on the program.
And I agree with Doug, I don't Autodynamics was the be all to end all in the case of Mopars Trans Am efforts.
Thanks for the link Brock. 

[Aero426]

Let me throw this out there, do you think Penske or Donahue could have been such a dominant force without being together?  Assume all things being equal of course as Roger Penske was agreat driver in his own right and his wiles as a team owner would have meant that he still had a top shelf driver.  Donahue too, would not have been an independent, he would have hooked up with a good team.  Say for example, Penske had Follmer in 1970-71 and Donahue was driving for Bud Moore, what then?

Well he was at least as good as anyone else behind the wheel.    Some say he doesn't get enough credit as a driver.   It's hard to name another driver who spent literally their entire professional career for one team, and in as many different series.    We're talking Can-Am,  Lemans, F5000, F1, Indy, T/A and NASCAR.    He did not suck in any of them.   

I'd say Mark could have done very well with other top teams, but the dynamics would have been much different as he would not have been running the shop.  With someone like Bud Moore, he would not have had the free reign he had with Roger.   But no matter, with Penske he had the total package personnel and resource-wise.   That and his own skills were, pardon the pun, the unfair advantage.    There is a snapshot in that new book of Mark standing next to the just unveiled dry ice cooled fueling rig with a huge grin from ear to ear.    He knew they had something.

[Ghoste]

How do you think Penske would have fared with a different driver?

[Aero426]

How do you think Penske would have fared with a different driver?

Follmer won the '72 Can-Am title for Penske when Mark got hurt early in the season.    Mark had done the development work in lock step with Porsche, but to be fair to Follmer, the 917-10 was not a car just anyone could step in and drive.  

Another way to look at it, was, "How did Penske do after Mark's death?"    Losing Mark was a huge blow, but the team certainly compensated with new talent on the engineering side, new drivers and they carried on. 

[Ghoste]

Good point.  I wasn't aware that Gearoge had driven for them later on either.

[Aero426]

Follmer in the 917 at Laguna '72.    When Mark came back towards the end of the season, Follmer was doing well enough to contend for the title that Penske put a second car on track to keep him going.