Car show cut off date set at 1971. That sucks for 72 Muscle cars

[1969chargerrtse]

I'm glad I don't have my 72 454 vette anymore I wouldn't be allowed to show my car at this show.  Even though the Hp rating was lowered with the new 72 standards, my 72 454 was the exact same 365hp motor that was in the 71 vette, only rated at something like 270 if I remember correct?
What do you guys think about a cut off date of 71?  I think it stinks and I own a 69. 

[69_500]

Doesn't bother me that much. There are local shows around here that have a manufactures cut off date as 1963, and some that are even earlier than that. It all depends on what kind of  cars they are trying to get into the show. Most of the local shows have cut off dates that relate to the year it is. IE 2009 show would have a cut off date of either 1969, 1979, or the such.

[Troy]

One of our biggest local shows has always had a cut off of 1970 (and I've been going since the mid 80s). It is put on by a street rod club though and averages over 2,500 cars. If they changed the rules I don't think they'd fit in the current venue so that would be a bigger problem. It sucked when I had a 73 Barracuda but now most all of my cars are eligible. Each show I attend has its own personality and I'm glad they are all slightly different as I don't like seeing the exact same cars at every show.

Troy

[Mike DC]

Cutting things off at 1971 does seem like an odd choice though.  That year is not rounded to any anniversary in 2009 or 2010, and it is neither the beginning nor the end of any particular era.  (For example, a 1963 cutoff makes perfect logical sense - 1964 was the formal start of the musclecar era.)

[Troy]

1971 is generally considered the end of the muscle car era - the last of the best any way. There are a few exceptions of course (Pontiac SD Trans Am for example).

Troy

[Mike DC]

           

IMHO that line belongs at the 1974 to 1975 cutoff.  That is where the car world has generally drawn that line the deepest, regardless of the brand.

Cutting it at 1971 seems like hair-splitting.  A 1971 model seems more "muscular" than a 1974 model, but by that same yardstick a 1968 model usually seems a lot more muscular than a 1965 model too.  I mean, a 1972 model is probably gonna be wearing virtually the same body style as the peak years, probably most of the same engine blocks & cylinder heads, etc.

 

[RECHRGD]

It also appears that the cut off date goes both ways.  All I see is one Mopar class and it says 1968-1971.   So I guess if you have a 1st generation Charger or a Mopar from the super stock years your also out of luck.  Bob

[oldrock]

seems like 73 makes more sense to me since 74 was when all the emissions stuff seemed to take the muscle out of muscle cars. Course they have to pick some year to cut things off and are always going to have some cool cars that miss the cut off.

[The70RT]

seems like 73 makes more sense to me since 74 was when all the emissions stuff seemed to take the muscle out of muscle cars. Course they have to pick some year to cut things off and are always going to have some cool cars that miss the cut off.

I agree. Around here cutoffs are usually 72. I think that is a GM thing because Chevelles, Cutlas,s Montes etc got big and ugly with those huge bumpers when the body styles changed and are not as worthey as the earlier ones. 72-3 stangs look close, Challengers and Cudas held the same featues......so must be GM thing to me?

[Todd Wilson]

I think 1971 is a tad early for cut off. I wish some of our shows did have a cut off date. Then I wouldnt have to see a bunch of rice burner tuner cars show up and hear thier stereos pumping out cRap music. Or look at the guy with his new Mustang GT500. Or look at the guy with a Scion with mirrors underneath is 3 month old vehicle showing off its perfect underside. We have a tuner club that shows up at shows. With their wings and wheels and neon glow lighting. Open their hoods to show off their chrome air intake they bought out of a catalog. They are always in a group. Yelling and cussing and they all turn their stereos up and walk off thinking everyone there wants to hear their music. We even had one jackass show up this year in a new Chevy Cobalt. He had a chrome air intake and a fancy stereo in it. He jacked the car up and took off one wheel?!  Why I dont know. It was factory suspension.  Turned his stereo up and walked around like a monkey with his pants hanging half off his ass smoking a swisher sweet cigar thinking he was cool.  Then when its all over with they all rev their weed eater engines and drop their clutches doing half ass'd burn outs and driving stupid with people everywhere and classic cars worth more then all their crap is combined.  So yeah I'd like to see cut off dates!


Todd

[Cooperman]

Todd, I agree with every word! 

[Brock Samson]

I think 1971 is a tad early for cut off. I wish some of our shows did have a cut off date. Then I wouldnt have to see a bunch of rice burner tuner cars show up and hear thier stereos pumping out cRap music. Or look at the guy with his new Mustang GT500. Or look at the guy with a Scion with mirrors underneath is 3 month old vehicle showing off its perfect underside. We have a tuner club that shows up at shows. With their wings and wheels and neon glow lighting. Open their hoods to show off their chrome air intake they bought out of a catalog. They are always in a group. Yelling and cussing and they all turn their stereos up and walk off thinking everyone there wants to hear their music. We even had one jackass show up this year in a new Chevy Cobalt. He had a chrome air intake and a fancy stereo in it. He jacked the car up and took off one wheel?!  Why I dont know. It was factory suspension.  Turned his stereo up and walked around like a monkey with his pants hanging half off his ass smoking a swisher sweet cigar thinking he was cool.  Then when its all over with they all rev their weed eater engines and drop their clutches doing half ass'd burn outs and driving stupid with people everywhere and classic cars worth more then all their crap is combined.  So yeah I'd like to see cut off dates!


Todd

   Classic!

[Silver R/T]

around here some people bring late model cars to classic car shows and pretend like there's nothing wrong

[41husk]

I believe 71 is a little early considering those cars are over 35 years old, but I would rather see it cut off at 71 than do like some of these local shows do and have a mopar all.  I have seen a 32 Dodge coupe with 09 Challengers, Vipers, PT cruizers, prowlers and a host of 60s and 70s  muscle

[jb666]

I think 1971 is a tad early for cut off. I wish some of our shows did have a cut off date. Then I wouldnt have to see a bunch of rice burner tuner cars show up and hear thier stereos pumping out cRap music. Or look at the guy with his new Mustang GT500. Or look at the guy with a Scion with mirrors underneath is 3 month old vehicle showing off its perfect underside. We have a tuner club that shows up at shows. With their wings and wheels and neon glow lighting. Open their hoods to show off their chrome air intake they bought out of a catalog. They are always in a group. Yelling and cussing and they all turn their stereos up and walk off thinking everyone there wants to hear their music. We even had one jackass show up this year in a new Chevy Cobalt. He had a chrome air intake and a fancy stereo in it. He jacked the car up and took off one wheel?!  Why I dont know. It was factory suspension.  Turned his stereo up and walked around like a monkey with his pants hanging half off his ass smoking a swisher sweet cigar thinking he was cool.  Then when its all over with they all rev their weed eater engines and drop their clutches doing half ass'd burn outs and driving stupid with people everywhere and classic cars worth more then all their crap is combined.  So yeah I'd like to see cut off dates!


Todd

Tell us how you REALLY feel, Todd. Don't hold back 

[The70RT]

We don't get the tuner crowd at our cruise ins. Maybe they know better by now that all these old men don't like their cRAP They hang out nights on the strip like we use to on the Blvd.

[BrianShaughnessy]

   Personally I think a 71 cutoff sucks.   Reminds me of the crappy goodguys shows that used to cutoff at 62 but now they bumped it to 72.

   I'm not into tuners at all (they're foreign junk!) but I don't want to exclude kids from the hobby just because their parents brought them up wrong.      Most of the parking lot / crappy 50's DJ car shows try to limit to 25 years.   I find them pretty boring as mostly they're put on by the same old guys.   Meanwhile the tuner shows do try to put out a few muscle car categories to include old stuff.  Go figure. 


   The Sawyer show uptown that I leave Carlisle to go to on Sunday has a rolling 25 year rule that seems to apply to everything but corvettes.    The vettes are all herded into a special parking lot anyway so they're sorta segregated.    Just as well...         Another show called "Classics under the Gunks" blatantly has a trophy class for NEW vettes.   That just doesn't sit right with me.   I can't even get them to break down the all encompassing generic "modified" class that ends up with 30 or 40 cars of all makes.

[68X426]

Todd, you are right on. 

Yeah, 1971 is low, what we see in NorCal is either 74 or 73, when it is a muscle division. Or else no limit at all. Which led to .....

My similar experience yesterday. I was placed next to a new PT thingy dingy, it still had the dealer advertising on it. Hood open. Guy struting. Pants dragging. Nice enough fellow, his friends spent the afternoon hanging out by my Hemi, leaning and learning. I kinda felt sorry for his culture shock.

It's all good to be inclusive but it's the attitude that gets smirked at, not the car.

His shock was drowned out by the red hot 12 piece R&B band with the four horn players. I had a great day. 

[Todd Wilson]

Tell us how you REALLY feel, Todd. Don't hold back 

If I had been awake a little more and had some more ice tea drank before I typed it I wouldnt have held back!   


Todd

[Todd Wilson]

   
   I'm not into tuners at all (they're foreign junk!) but I don't want to exclude kids from the hobby just because their parents brought them up wrong.     

I dont really want to exclude them. But they could show up and act decent like everyone else. No one else there was loud and cussing and playing their music really loud. I've been to the same show 2 years in a row and its all good until they show up. 2 years ago I was about to thump one of them and then run over his car with the old truck. One of the head bosshog tuners had to do the white boy gangsta act with me and when I told him the situation he walked over and told the kid to move his car and all was well.    I like the cut off dates but 71 is early.   I also enjoy seeing the high end cars like Vipers or Ford GT's that would be excluded by a date deal. Theres ust no good way around it.





Todd

[1969chargerrtse]

I always found as far back as 1955 to 1973 to cover to all.  Muscle cars would be about , the 57 Chevy Fulie?  62 409 dual Quad?  64 GTO/Mustang and then right up to about 72, maybe a 73 here and there, and that's about it.

On the Vette, 72 was the same engine as 71, but in 73 the 454 lost compression and torque.

[bearbqd]

Even though the performance was all but gone, I think the cut off should be 74. I mean the e-bodies, although anemic at this point still had the same great ebody shape and a lot of people hotrod them to be performance machines. In looks, they were pretty much identical to the 72's and 3's so why not? Other brands could be argued too. I think the 70-73 Firebirds were the best looking years for that body with the superduty being available until 74. I think 74 is a reasonable cutoff year.

[oldrock]

thought I would just share what I saw at a car show today. (sorry but didn't take a camera)

What the show did was divide cars into categories...
pre 60s - no real standout to me, cool chevy sedans mostly
60s - lots of cool cars but the standouts to me were the 69 charger and a 67 camaro convertable
70s - they had an amazing 70 boss 302 mustang and a very nice 72 442.
post 70s - sorry but snore... Im just not inspired by the 80s stuff

imho, the best years for muscle cars would be 1965-1972. With pretty much any model you care to name, I could pick a specific year in that range and say that is my very favorite for that car. For example with mustangs, it would be 1969/1970. Camaros or firebirds would be 1967/1969. GTO would be 1972, chevelle would be 71 and I could go on and on. Seems like that era of 65-72 pretty much was "it" for me.

[jerry]

1970 should be cutoff year. anything after that is just ho hum.

[Troy]

I went to a cruise-in last week and out of 40 or so cars 5 were new Camaros (4 still wearing temporary tags). Most cruise-ins don't have a year limit so I'm used to seeing rows of new cars.

Troy

[Nacho-RT74]

Even thinking the power drop was for real, both got diff measurements to avoid Insurances even more... Gross Vs Net HPs

[Ghoste]

Surely there is room for all inclusive shows and ones with restrictions?

[greenpigs]

I like seeing it all. Nothing makes a ricer look for his ps3 quicker than a REAL car with balls. I love seeing that happen and dont mind new rides.

[miller]

The car shows here try to include the "tuner crowd" but they never show up, so when it rains and I don't want to take my Charger to the car show I take the GTP instead... apparently an 05 GTP is a tuner.. because it won 1st place in the tuner class....


wouldn't have anything to do with the fact none of the real "tuners" shown up.... nope nothing at all....

[Troy]

There's apparently some sort of new Chevy/GM small SUV that's badged as an "SS". It was at the cruise-in tonight with the "show cars" but I didn't stop long enough to look or take a picture. Soon there will be a "soccer mom mini van" award...

Troy

[oldrock]

they had a new camaro at the show I was at also. Don't know anything about it cause I didn't even look. They also had a couple newish trucks but from the glance I gave them, I think they did at least have tricked out engines. Gladly I didn't see many if any rice burners at the show. I'd say 90% were true 60s or 70s muscle cars with a few other things mixed in. My son and I enjoyed the show and we are thinking about taking our muscle cars to a show some day.   

[41husk]

All shows are put on to make money for some club, organization or charity,  so the classes are put in to insure that happening.  A small show 100 or less cars will not make money if they have 40 or more classes with 3 awards per class.   If the awards cost $10 per that is $120.  Throw in 3 special awards, Best in show, Best paint, Best stereo, etc.  and you have spent $150 on awards.  @ $15 per entry you have only brought in $150.  Every one leaves happy because they have a dust collector for the shelf but the people who did all the work don't make any money.  To avoid this you try to combine classes with fewer entries.  I like having one of my cars recognized with an award but would rather win nothing and be able to look at a large number of great cars.
The thing I hate worse than large catch all classes like stock 1960- 1975 (I was at a show with that gap), is going to a show that has 120 awards over 200 cars and only gives out 100 awards.  Some shows have classes with only 1 or two entries and rather than giving two 2nds or thirds in a class with 25 entries. 
I prefer cruizes, even though most are just shows void of awards and entry fees put on at local establishments to boost sales and foot traffic on that night.  We have had a few cruizes were people actualy drive there cars in precession from point to point.  What ever you prefer, they all help to get the hobby recognition and possibly hook that young gun.

[oldrock]

re cruise ins, there is a sonic drive in restaurant in our area that does those. Going to find out what day of the month it is and start doing it. Will be a good way for my son and I to break into things since I don't think they have any judging at all... just a bunch of cars that get together to meet and eat.

[41husk]

re cruise ins, there is a sonic drive in restaurant in our area that does those. Going to find out what day of the month it is and start doing it. Will be a good way for my son and I to break into things since I don't think they have any judging at all... just a bunch of cars that get together to meet and eat.

Yes and you can come and go as you please.  I have even tricked my wife into going to the local Culberts cruize night.  The resterount is in Collinsville the same town she has many relatives in.  They are a big family and it seems there is some birthday or get together every weekend.  She hates to drive so I told her I would go with her if I could take the 73.  (She hates the 73 it's very loud) On the way,  What do you know?  Hey look! a car show at that resteraunt, lets stop in for a bit.  After a little time she says are you about ready to go.  NO!  Why don't you drop me off and you can come back.  I can have my mom and dad take me home.  That sounds like a great idea, your so smart!

[Brock Samson]

'72 has allways been the cut off for me, '67 '68 and especially the '69s have allways been the sweet spot for my Favs. Seems every car built in those years Kicked ass or at least had a High Performance version I'd love to own.
IMO In '70 there was a noticable drop off in my Favorites with the Chally being a big exception...
and by '73 there wasn't much left was there?.. 
  I think it's nice to include the later Muscle say up to '75, but i really don't find them very desirable, it's nice to see a later Mustang/Cougar, Torino GT or SS 454 or even a Magnum/Cordoba/Mirada but... 
Perhaps '72-80 should be a special class and the real muscle '56 (300 Fury for example) through '72 be the main Category... It might be harder to find the beginning of the muscle car era then the end...
Just my thoughts on the subject...

[Ponch ®]

if the organizers want to set their cutoff at a given year and want only certain cars, that's fine with me. It's probably just not a very smart move business wise, esp. if it's one of those deals where the object is to make some $.

On the other hand, I have seen some rather imbecilic criteria at some other car shows. The annual Glendale Cruise Night is adamant that their cut off is 1973 (which is reasonable in an of itself), but apparently they have no problem with having a Hyundai Accent from the local dealership because they shelled out a few bucks. There was also another show a few months ago where the cut off was also 1973 EXCEPT for Mustangs, Camaros, and Challengers. So theoretically a '96 Mustang with a V6 could have made it in, but one of my buddies' supercharged 600hp Chargers or 300s wouldn't have because it's not a "muscle car".  

[Charger440RDN]

around here some people bring late model cars to classic car shows and pretend like there's nothing wrong

I never really understood this either, these are cars that you can see everyday in the Wal Mart parking lot.   Where i live they do the same thing and bring these brand new cars to the car shows here with no modifications. I just ignore them and walk straight over to the "REAL" classic car section. When I go to a car show i don't want to see NEW CRAP!! The reason I am there is to look at cars you don't see everyday