1970 Dodge Challenger R/T with 440 Magnum (aka 'Kowalski's car')

[DavidSL]

I'm in the UK, and hoping to save up enough money to buy either a Charger or a Challenger in the next 2 years. Charger's I can see - there's not loads, but there are some about. But a 1970 Challenger like the one in 'Vanishing Point'? I can't find them anywhere online - and those I do are way above $40,000!

Is this just sheer popularity, or are they just not out there for reasonable money anymore??

I'm gonna join up with the MMA UK over the next few months - I know they look out for cars like this for people to buy, but I'm a little disheartened at the lack of Challengers at a good price at the moment!

[b5blue]

Now David you told us you wanted a Charger... are you 12?

[DavidSL]

 

I don't know how you jumped to that conclusion - but I'm just keeping my options open. I'm not planning on buying one of these until at least another years time, and since I like both, I felt it a good question to ask. I came to this forum because out of all the forums I found, this one has the best community and everyone is very helpful. Yes, the Challenger and Charger are two very different cars, but what I can learn about here is proving very useful to me in deciding. I didn't mention the Challenger because this is a Charger only forum. Not 12, just as yet undecided. But thanks for picking me up on it...

[bull]

       Kowalski?

[bull]

E-body cars generally brought more money than B-body cars but I think they've evened out more over the past year or so. At least that's the trend I've seen here in the US.

[Finn]

They're out there, just picked up 2 1970 challengers a couple months ago.

Not sure how the overseas searching goes but keep checking craigslist.com, hemmings.com, cuda-challenger.com, and this wonderful site. Ebay can be sketchy. Make sure you post all the info on the car you're thinking about buying on here first though, there's several known businesses you want to stay well away from.

Good luck!

[41husk]

You can always get a plane jane 318 challenger, paint it white and put what ever drive train you want.  To make it a Vanishing point car.  Good luck what ever you decide to do.

[Belgium R/T -68]

I bought a Challenger in London, UK once that I found in Hemmings. Otherwise look for Swedish websites selling US cars, there you
can surely find one and it's rather close for a visit to check the car out.

Per

[DavidSL]

Ah, great stuff, thanks guys. As I say, I'm not sure WHICH car I'm going to go for, I like them both - but for now I'll just keep learning as I go, I have a long time to make up my mind.

The best thing is that I can learn about the engines and so on here because as far as I'm aware the Charger and Challenger are evenly matched on that front.

[Mike DC]

   
Yeah, the whole drivetrain was largely equal between those cars.  Even the stuff that wasn't literally interchangeable was usually still only different in minor ways that are only relevant if you are chasing a 100% stock resto.  For modern street-cruiser purposes the drivetrains are exactly the same experience to set up and modify.


To spare you some possible confusion - The 4-barrel 383 Magnum was considered R/T material in a Challenger, but the same motor was not part of the R/T bracket in the Chargers.     

 

[DavidSL]

Ah, that's great, thanks Mike.

My main purpose over the next couple of years (and onwards, I hope!) is to learn as much as I possibly can about car engines in general, so that when it comes to owning and restoring my own muscle car, I know exactly the reasons for wanting what I want. The Dodge Charger and Challenger are the only muscle cars I've fallen head-over-heels in love with, but the engines of muscle cars in general interest me a great deal. Learning about restoration of the car body, the interior and the finer details are something I hope I can pick up from here.

If I go for a Charger, I'm willing to go about turning it into the car I want, but for a Challenger, I'd like to at least have the R/T model - I'd like to have the 440 Magnum inside but I know that's something that can be added to the car after I've saved up. I just don't want to have to 'convert' a normal Challenger into an R/T - unfortunately, if I do go for the Challenger - it looks like I'm gonna have a tough search on my hands for anything below the $40000 mark, and I just can't do that.

Still, learning and saving comes first, who knows what I'll decide!

[b5blue]

Get your hands on a Mopar Performance Parts Big Block "B/RB" Engines book. It will be the best help getting you up to speed as a newbie.

[DavidSL]

Get your hands on a Mopar Performance Parts Big Block "B/RB" Engines book. It will be the best help getting you up to speed as a newbie.

Good stuff, thanks! I'll have to have a look out. I'm realising there is so much to learn, but knowing just the basics is helping me immensely.

'Course, being 12 years old, I'll need to use all my pocket money on this one... 

[b5blue]

Well come on over you can mow my yard and wash my 70 Charger and I'll let ya look at my copy. 

[DavidSL]

Well come on over you can mow my yard and wash my 70 Charger and I'll let ya look at my copy. 

'Touche', is the word I believe I'm looking for... 

Can I sit in your Charger and pretend I'm driving it? 

I'm gonna go hunting for that book online right now, so I can get a head start on the bigger kids. Thanks again for the advice! 

[b5blue]

 

[DavidSL]

Just found this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Build-Max-Performance-Mopar-Blocks-Design/dp/1934709034/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1251891817&sr=8-1

Just being released. Looks like the best of a bunch? 

[b5blue]

No I'd start with Mopar Performance's book, it's from Chrysler, mine is book #P4876825....I think there is a newer one now but start from a factory book it walks you through everything very well explaining how things do and why. It also covers history and development/part interchange and such. 

[b5blue]

Here is edition #9... P5249704, Mancini Racing has it for 10.00 (US)

[Cooter]

Well, you answered your own question in the beginning.....You, and everybody else, wants an R/T 70 Challenger with a pistol grip 4-speed...

If your looking to get it under $40K, well, expect it to be missing everthing but the roof.....Then, expect to invest $40K into it to put it back together....


Challengers Will Always be big bucks, that's just the way it is...I'd go for a '64 plymouth Savoy, 2dr sedan over a Challenger, but that's just me....

[Finn]

If your looking to get it under $40K, well, expect it to be missing everthing but the roof.....Then, expect to invest $40K into it to put it back together....

Or vice-versa (chop-top):


Btw, ^that^ RT(technically an RT/SE if that roof was still intact) was $4,250 and it runs and drives excellent. The other was the same price. The deals are out there, just keep an eye open.

[Mike DC]

  
The problem with E-bodies is the simple math of the production numbers.  It's basically just as desirable as the B-body cars but with only a small fraction of the production numbers.  



And not only did they make more Chargers originally, but the existing Chargers have several other models on the B-body platform to use for a big portion of the needed replacement parts.  A lot of Chargers have been repaired with structural pieces borrowed from Dodge Coronets, Dodge Super Bees, Plymouth Belvederes, Roadrunners, GTXs  . . .  even the 4-door b-bodies from a given year share the same basic undercarriage.

Challengers and Barracudas are in a much worse situation in this area because they were the only cars built on the E-body platform.  There are no other less desirable models to get E-body-specific parts from.  And to make it even worse, the Challenger and Barracuda/Cuda models had slightly different wheelbases by 2 inches.  (WTF?!?!  I know, it's infuriating.)  So when trying to restore a Dodge Challenger, if a needed component is not a major suspension or drivetrain part, then in most cases it MUST be either purchased as a reproduction or be taken from another Dodge Challenger.

 

[DavidSL]

Thanks b5blue, I'll get onto that straight away! 

Ah ok, thanks guys. It seems like it's gonna be a good long hunt for me - luckily, in the meantime I just gotta save up the money for one of these. A member here has kindly pointed out he might have a Challenger for sale in a year or two, so I know there are options. I guess for me it's either pay for one in good condition or spend the money I save buying a car in need of work on restoring it. $4250 for a good-running Challenger seems like a bargain. I'm guessing the expense would be mainly cosmetic on a car in that condition.

One question about the 1970 Challenger R/T - did it always come with the 'Dodge' logo written across the hood? I've seen some on here and around the net without that.

[maxwellwedge]

 

There are no other less desirable models to get E-body-specific parts from.  And to make it even worse, the Challenger and Barracuda/Cuda models had slightly different wheelbases by 2 inches.  (WTF?!?!  I know, it's infuriating.)    

Actually - I believe many Plymouths had a shorter wheelbase than their Dodge sisters. Dodge was the "Higher Class" division and Plymouth was the "Value" division - Dodge wanted the extra size - Like Mercury compare to Ford.

[maxwellwedge]

Thanks b5blue, I'll get onto that straight away!  


One question about the 1970 Challenger R/T - did it always come with the 'Dodge' logo written across the hood? I've seen some on here and around the net without that.

Yes - DODGE letters On the Rallye Hood (Which was the standard hood on the R/T) - The Shaker Hood got the triangle emblem.