The new guy...

[DavidSL]

Hey all,

I discovered this forum the other day, and I've been coming back to take a look over it since - been enjoying looking at everyone's cars and seeing what people are up to.

Firstly, I'll introduce myself - my name is David and I live in the UK. I just turned 27 and I guess you could say that up until now my interest in cars has always been just an admiration for the way they look. But I've started developing a real interest in engines and what's going on beneath the hood. Once I realised that owning a Dodge Charger might not be so far-fetched as I initially thought, my interest only increased.

I don't know a whole lot about cars - but I'm slowly teaching myself as I can. I found a great website - http://www.carbibles.com - which seems to have all the basics covered - I'm currently learning all about the internal combustion engine and how it works - then moving onto the carburetor and going from there. I'm hoping by reading and learning like this I will have a much better understanding of what people are talking about when it comes to engines, their power, and just what the hell is happening inside that engine. I also invested in a book, 'Project Charger' - all about the restoration of a 1970 Dodge Charger - and reading through that (once I know what the author is talking about) should give me an idea of what to expect.

So what do I want out of all this? Well - a Dodge Charger, I hope! I've just come back from a short stay in Oz and found myself out of work - so I'm currently searching for a new job - but basically I'm putting in place a 'year plan' - basically as soon as I find a new job I'll start putting away a large amount of cash each month to save. This will hopefully allow me to fund the purchase of a Charger or at least give me a large deposit towards one - and I'll just keep saving until I can afford one. I'm not planning to do a complete restoration - I'd like to find something that is at least in good enough condition for me to base any personal touches I want to apply on to it without too much trouble – but if it needs work, I'm willing to put in the time.

As I say, I don't know too much about them at the moment – all I know is I like the 1970 Dodge Charger 500 – I don't know the difference between an R/T and normal – and all I know of engines is that the Magnum is a popular choice. Left hand drive and automatic is something I expect to find in this model, and that's fine with me. I have found one which I won't be buying but it gives me an idea of what's out there. This is it: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1970-DODGE-CHARGER-500-V8-383-BIG-BLOCK-6-2-LITRE-COUPE_W0QQitemZ390084136314QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item5ad2d38d7a&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

I have hundreds more questions so I hope you'll put up with me asking them over time. I guess one silly concern I have is this – I know the Dodge Charger is a pretty big car, and I'm a pretty small guy. I'm about 5'6" and pretty skinny. I don't want to look silly next to the car of my dreams, or like I just don't 'fit' with it. Hmm.

Anyway, thanks for putting up with the long post, I look forward to talking to you all over time!  

EDITED TO ADD LINK

[Blown70]

Welcome and look around. Many many helpful people here.  Several too from accross the pond.

[Jon Smith]

hello from another UK member...

you could visit the mopar euronationals next summer, missed this years unfortunately its at the end of july ...but there will more than likely be a few chargers at the NSRA hot rod drags at shakepseare county raceway at the end of september...

the MMA is a UK based club who are very helpful and friendly, but you need to join the club to take part in their forum http://www.moparuk.com/

[tan top]

hello & welcome  David   

[b5blue]

Welcome to the forum Newbie! 1st, the book is a good overview of a Charger but missing tons of specific "Charger details", no worry you have time.2nd the 500 for 70 is just a trim package basically unlike 69. 3rd, If you really like 70 best get a factory service manual for it first, like 30.00 on ebay for the CD. In it you will find all the options and details to study. 4th, for the UK standard the cars are huge but your size would not be a issue as far as "looks" anymore than my big butt was in my Spitfire, TR-4 or TR-7. Good luck Dave ask anything you want to, there are a bunch of great guys here..

[41husk]

Welcome 

[69*F5*SE]

Welcome aboard David from here in Detroit, Michigan USA 

[TylerCharger69]

Welcome to the site, David....from Corpus Christi, Texas

[DavidSL]

Ah thanks guys, such a warm welcome! Good to be aboard! 

Appreciate the help on some of my issues, I'll certainly be asking lots of questions. I suppose one of my main queries is just how do you guys afford to buy these cars? I'm thinking lots of saving - but people have also suggested finance, stuff like that.

Also, what do you think of the car I posted a link to?

Thanks again! 

[TylerCharger69]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong,  but doesn't the "500" models have a window plug?   Resembling the Daytona rear window?   Otherwise...looks like a really nice car!!

[moparstuart]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong,  but doesn't the "500" models have a window plug?   Resembling the Daytona rear window?   Otherwise...looks like a really nice car!!

not in 70

[TylerCharger69]

Also...the description said it's a right-hand drive???  Looks to be regular left to me....

[TylerCharger69]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong,  but doesn't the "500" models have a window plug?   Resembling the Daytona rear window?   Otherwise...looks like a really nice car!!

not in 70

Cool....Thanks Moparstuart...I wasn't sure!!!

[bull]

Welcome Dave.

That 500 on Ebay looks very nice but one thing most of us will tell you is to be sure you look at the Charger you think you want in person before sending any money. That might be a little tougher to do in your market area but it's still sound advice. I would highly reccommend that you become a member of that moparuk website Jon mentioned because that will create a good network for you to utilize in informing yourself of things to look for and available Chargers in your area. Often the members will help each other by looking at local cars for sale that might be too far away for you to readily look at in person although I'm sure it's much easier for people in the UK to drive halfway across the country to see a car than it is for Americans. While you're saving up your money I would be sure to carefully consider what is important to you. Do you want a stock numbers matching Charger or a custom performance setup? Something in-between? You said you don't want a complete restoration so that alone will reduce your options, but that's ok. Looking back I kind of wish I had done the same thing. If you want an original numbers-matching car you'll have to do more homework to learn what to look for so you don't get ripped off.

When I was younger I had a '70 base model Charger with a 383 that I really enjoyed. The 500 is basically a trim package upgrade from the 70 base model that pretty much equates to what was available on a base model in 68 and 69. The '70 R/T is a performance upgrade above what's offered on the 500 and it means you got either a 440 or 426 Hemi engine as well as larger suspension parts and other features such as R/T door scoops and emblems and sometimes a rear spoiler. 1970 was a good year for some cool options that weren't offered the two years prior such as more "interesting" paint color choices, high back bucket seats, hood graphics, pistol grip 4 peed shifters, rallye wheels, etc. The 383 is an excellent engine but all Mopar engines offered back then were pretty bullet proof. The '68 I own now will soon have its original 383 reinstalled as I'm going for a semi-original restoration.


Anyway, nice to have you and good luck in your search. We'll be happy to help.

BTW, check this out for a familiar perspective on Chargers in the UK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnLktvQlg3g

[twodko]

Welcome to the forum David! You've come to the right place for all things Charger and great people too. Don't give a second thought about "how you'll look" in your future Charger, people will be too busy admiring your good taste in cars. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Besides, those who don't appreciate the whole package are simple wankers right?

Tom

[DavidSL]

Thanks again!

Bull, some excellent advice - it appears I have a lot to learn! I will do as Jon Smith suggested and check out that site. There's just no way I can afford anything at the moment - but I think even in a year I'd still be checking out finance options to get one of these.

I like the style of that 1970 500 Charger. That's the body shape I like - but I don't know much about it all, yet. I don't know the difference between a 383 and a 440 engine, but I'll get there. The R/T sounds like the better option, but again, what I want is a totally classic looking, head-turning car that roars like only a V8 can! I like the front grill of the 1970 model, and that's the car I'm aiming for. I want a solid car but I'm not worried too much if I don't like the paint job or the interior, that's something I'll be aiming to customise. That car on ebay that I showed would probably be bought by me if I had the money, but again - I really don't know where'd I go from there. I don't honestly know what matching numbers means - but I think it has something to do with the car being all original rather than customised? If so, I'm not too worried about that - I'd personally like a nice shell, put in the engine I want, make it into the car I want and add anything that is missing - if it isn't an R/T and I wanted it to be, I'd like to make it into one. I'd want the vinyl roof removed and make it into a hard top. I'm guessing all of this is possible?

I'm a bit in the dark but I'm learning. Thanks again, guys!  

EDIT: Tom, we posted at the same time - thanks! Yeah, I'm not worried now, I suddenly realised that it's a silly thing to even consider.  

Oh yeah, and Bull, I randomly turned over to Top Gear today, and that clip was on TV! Bizarre coincidence, or a sign from the Charger God? You decide! 

[Tilar]

From one David to another, Welcome to this great site! I wouldn't worry about what other people think about your size. Just tell them it makes it a lot easier to get under to work on things.  

The individual forums like Engines, electrical and the rest will give you a lot of information on the Chargers and if you come across something that you don't understand, You can search the web or just make a post and ask. There is an abundance of information around here and as long as you are willing to learn, Everyone here is willing to teach.

[DavidSL]

Well thanks very much, David, I can tell we're gonna get on! 

I'll keep looking around - I've printed out all the info I can on engines and such, and am making notes on scrap paper. I find this helps me to remember it all. It's really interesting, too - I think I've found my new passion, which is very exciting! 

Also - can anyone tell me what type/model this Charger is - because this is pretty much dead on the type of Charger I want to end up with - except mine would have the stripes on the tail  : http://www.myfreewallpapers.net/vehicles/pages/dodge-charger.shtml

Continued thanks! 

[bull]

Dave, the 383 and 440 are very similar, in fact it's hard to tell them apart at a glance. The same heads, manifolds, carbs, etc., can be used on both engines but one is obviously bigger than the other 383=383 cubic inch displacement or roughly 6.3 litres and 440=440 cubic inch displacement or roughly 7.2 litres so basically more volume of comressable air/fuel per cylinder which equates to more horsepower and torque. Many people here are fond of the saying. "There's no replacement for displacement." The 426 Hemi (almost 7 litres) on the other hand is in its own unique category, and usually costs a lot more money in every way you can imagine. I'm not convinced that Hemis are as awesome as eveyone thinks they are but I probably only think that because they're out of my league price-wise. All other things being equal, a '70 500 will cost more than a base model, and R/T will cost more than a 500 and a Hemi R/T will cost more than a small house.

All Chargers are hard tops by definition but most got vinyl roofs from the factory. I'm like you in that I prefer no vinyl top but many people like them. You might be surprised to learn that one reason the factory put so many vinyl tops on Chargers is because it made the cars cheaper to produce. That's a big area they covered with vinyl so they didn't have to worry about the expense of body work and paint. Unfortunately it created a trap for moisture and therefore it's often a trouble spot for rust.

Yes, numbers matching means original sheet metal (for the most part), engine block, trans, VIN matches the fender tag which matches the radiator core support numbers and trunk lip numbers and so on. Those are getting pretty hard to find but you won't have to worry about that if it's not your thing. However, you do want to make sure you know a little something about that so someone won't try to pass off a fake if that's what you happen to find for sale in your price range someday.

[bull]

Well thanks very much, David, I can tell we're gonna get on!  

I'll keep looking around - I've printed out all the info I can on engines and such, and am making notes on scrap paper. I find this helps me to remember it all. It's really interesting, too - I think I've found my new passion, which is very exciting!  

Also - can anyone tell me what type/model this Charger is - because this is pretty much dead on the type of Charger I want to end up with - except mine would have the stripes on the tail  : http://www.myfreewallpapers.net/vehicles/pages/dodge-charger.shtml

Continued thanks!  

That black one was owned by a member here who went by Black Knight. It's a '68 base model Charger which had a 440 transplant if I remember right. You can see there's no R/T emblem on the grill so by that you can easily tell that it originally came with a slant 6, a 318 V8 or a 383 V8. On the other hand, people often installed R/T emblems on Chargers that were not R/Ts but no one usually did the opposite so you have to be more careful with the ones labeled as R/Ts than those that aren't. Nice looking car though isn't it? I might be a little biased but black '68s are the way to go.

This one is nice, and check out the web address at bottom of the picture:



Here's another nice one:

[Tilar]

Well thanks very much, David, I can tell we're gonna get on!  

I'll keep looking around - I've printed out all the info I can on engines and such, and am making notes on scrap paper. I find this helps me to remember it all. It's really interesting, too - I think I've found my new passion, which is very exciting!  

Also - can anyone tell me what type/model this Charger is - because this is pretty much dead on the type of Charger I want to end up with - except mine would have the stripes on the tail  : http://www.myfreewallpapers.net/vehicles/pages/dodge-charger.shtml

Continued thanks!  

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60712.0.html

Here is a link to a car that a member just sold. This is one of my favorite cars on the site although there are a lot of really good looking Chargers around here. The one as my avatar is mine. Originally a red on red with a 318 and 3 speed on the column. The only options this car had from the factory was the radio and interior light group. Just a basic car.

What I have planned and have spent a small fortune buying parts for is a 440 with a console automatic. I'm planning on putting in an A512 overdrive automatic and factory air conditioning. I bought an AC dash and it turned out to be a dash for an 8-track so now I need to decide If I really want an 8-track radio or exchange the dash for one for a regular radio.

I had thought of red with white interior and a white stripe. But it will be triple black with a stripe, but I haven't decided on what color stripe yet. I'm leaning toward the flat black like was on 1hot68's car linked above.

[Charger440RDN]

Welcome to the forum! Although I'm kind of new here too I wouldn't worry about the 68-70 Charger being too big, it really is not that big of a car in person. They look a lot bigger in pictures than in real life. I know when i sat inside a 1970 Charger for the first time, i thought it was kind of small inside but I am 6ft 2' tall

[aussiemuscle]

Hi David,
also keep an eye out for chargers already imported to the UK. they wont be as common or cheap, but at least you can drive over and have a look at them in person.

[JMF]

Hi David, i'm from London, England and used to own a 68 Charger, join the MMA should be your first step as a lot of us on there know the majority of Mopars for sale in in the UK so you will get good advice on ones to go for and ones to avoid etc, the Charger does seem like a big car in England with our small roads, especially in town, but you get used to it fast, it's not really that much bigger than some of the new 7 series BMW's and they are everywhere over here, one thing you should bare in mind though is that the Charger will not fit in a standard UK sized lock up garage, this is one of the reasons why I sold my 68 as I got fed up with paying the huge sums of money for renting an 18 feet long garage

[400/6/PAC]

Welcome.

[DavidSL]

Thanks for all the kind replies, guys - really nice warm welcome! 

I feel like I've learnt so much already, just from reading the replies here and looking at the printouts I took from the car bible site - learning all about 2-stroke and 4-stroke engines, how/why they work, and now onto spark plugs and carburetors. Finding it really fascinating, too, so I'm just enjoying the whole learning experience immensely.

The great thing is that I now know that if I find the Charger I'm looking for, I can modify and alter it to how I like over time. I think that's part of the excitement of this.

I shall definitely join the MMA - I'm looking at their site now and I gotta say just seeing the classifieds they've had over the years, it looks to be a promising place for the future when it comes to me buying one of these beautiful cars. Money being what it is now, I'm wondering whether to hold off joining until January, as I pay a full membership now and it only runs up until the end of December. That said, I'm keen to learn as much as I can - and get in touch with people in the UK who can help me out with the search for a car. I shall certainly be looking to the UK primarily, I want to go and see these cars before I buy one.

So much to learn and think about! Once again, thanks, and please keep the replies coming, I'm learning so much from all of you! 

[69bronzeT5]

Welcome to the site! Listen to what Bull and the others are saying, they are giving some great advice

[DavidSL]

Thanks 69bronzeT5, I certainly am and will! 

I do have one question that's been bugging me - I fell in love with the design of the 1970 Charger 500, but then saw this http://inventory.bestofshowautomotive.com/CarDetails_new_arrivals.asp?VIN=131622 and other pictures of the '68 - and am trying to work out the difference in model shape? Is there any difference in size, shape or anything like that, or is it more internal changes for the '70 model?

[69bronzeT5]

Thanks 69bronzeT5, I certainly am and will! 

I do have one question that's been bugging me - I fell in love with the design of the 1970 Charger 500, but then saw this http://inventory.bestofshowautomotive.com/CarDetails_new_arrivals.asp?VIN=131622 and other pictures of the '68 - and am trying to work out the difference in model shape? Is there any difference in size, shape or anything like that, or is it more internal changes for the '70 model?

That's 1hotDaytona's old '68 but you already know that.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60712.60.html

The shape of the '68-'70 Chargers are virtually the same. As you can see between the pictures though, the '68 and '70 Charger are two completely different beasts visually.

[DavidSL]

Ah yeah, I did realise it was his, I commented on his thread out of appreciation 

I apologise, but I'm somewhat confused - do you mean they are a different beast based on what's going on inside? From what I can see, the shape isn't different. I can imagine a '70 Charger painted black with the same interior would look the same? I guess you can make the same modifications?

I'm not too worried at this stage, I'm planning at LEAST a year before I can even consider buying one, but it's peaked my curiosity!

Also - I'm assuming the term 'clone' refers to a car that has been modified to replicate the model the owner was aiming for, like a normal Charger being modified to R/T specifications? I do apologise for the onset of questions, I'm a keen learner! 

[69bronzeT5]

Also - I'm assuming the term 'clone' refers to a car that has been modified to replicate the model the owner was aiming for, like a normal Charger being modified to R/T specifications?

Yes

The differences between the '68 and '70 Charger....

-Front end (fenders, grille, hood, bumper, valance)
-Rear end (taillights, taillight panel, rear valance)
-Side (marker lights are round in '68- rectangular in '70)
-Interior (door panels, seats etc)

Those are just some of the differences. If you look at pictures of them, you should be able to tell the differences. From what I know, the chassis' are the exact same.

[bull]

Let's put it this way for the sake of simplicity: the exteriors of the 68 and 70 are virtually identical from the front of the doors back (except for side marker lights, backup lights and tail lights) and very different from the front of the doors forward. The exteriors of the 68 and 69 are virtually the same front to back except for marker lights, backup lights, tail lights and grill. All three years are considered the second generation of the Charger because they have pretty much the same sheet metal all three years, especially to the majority of the public. The 66-67 Charger is considered the first generation and the 71-74 is the third generation.

[DavidSL]

Ah that pretty much covers it - thanks guys! 

I've always preferred the back of the 1970 Dodge Charger 500 - I can see the Charger used in Bullitt had a much less attractive back bumper than later models - but the photo of 1hotdaytona's '68 seems to be different somehow, definitely more attractive.

Looking at both the '68 and '70 now, however, I can see the differences. In fact, I think my head has been turned, the '68 is starting to look a lot nicer! 

[69bronzeT5]

I can see the Charger used in Bullitt had a much less attractive back bumper than later models - but the photo of 1hotdaytona's '68 seems to be different somehow, definitely more attractive.

Same year and model of car In fact, 1hotDaytona's old '68 was used in a Bullitt type photo shoot not too long ago.

[DavidSL]

Same year and model of car In fact, 1hotDaytona's old '68 was used in a Bullitt type photo shoot not too long ago.

Then I think it's just me... 

I think seeing the overall package like that I'm seeing it differently. Hmm. Anyway, the '68 seems to be the most popular around here, it is an awfully nice car. I'm aware people have consistently told me not to be concerned about the size of it, but I do have a feeling I'm gonna look a little too small sitting in that car - It's not that I'm tiny - I'm 5'6"-5'7"ish, but after seeing that clip from our show Top Gear with Richard Hammond in the '68 (he's about the same height as me) it looks like he can barely see above the steering wheel!

I don't know why this concerns me so much, but I want a car I'm gonna be comfortable in and look good in as well, I don't wanna be dwarfed by this beauty!