Repair or replace

mAdMoPaR · August 21, 2009, 12:33:05 AM

Hello all, Long time reader first time post. Need a little advice on fixin the rear window channel on my 68 charger (see pics) Should I replace with new sheet metal? or does it look like i might be repairable? Gonna have the trunk floor replaced so I figured it might be easier to replace the deck panel at least with the trunk floor removed. Not sure how easy the sail panels are to replace though, not really a bodywork type.

69bronzeT5 · August 21, 2009, 12:40:40 AM

It looks repairable but if you get the car sand/media blasted, it could open up a whole new can of worms and expose more non-visable rust.

mAdMoPaR · August 21, 2009, 12:50:04 AM

Thats kinda of what I was thinking. Although I dont think I'm gonna have it blasted ...at least not yet

I'm at the stage where I'm kinda just collecting sheet metal pieces I think I gonna need and have it all welded at the same time. So far the trunk and the window channel seem to be the problems, the rest of the car is pretty solid.

HollyWoodCharger · August 21, 2009, 08:34:36 AM

I think I'd be looking into the Sail Panel patch parts and a dutchman panel, and the lower back window frame, it may come with the dutchman panel depending on who makes it...

by the time you cut out the area or grind it out, it will without a doubt be larger than it looks now in these pics.

but this repair is not the end of the world, it'll take some patience to fix properly...

b5blue · August 21, 2009, 09:01:09 AM

I have the same issues with my car but my trunk channels are shot also. I have bought L/R sail panel pieces and the piece from the window to the trunk but now AMD makes one that is better with the trunk channel built in and they make the channels to go with it. So I'll be buying them too! It's better to buy the whole section then try to weld little patches everywhere or use filler.

Silver R/T · August 21, 2009, 10:55:33 AM

just get a spot blaster and blast it yourself. Afterwards you can make patches and fix it yourself

TylerCharger69 · August 21, 2009, 11:17:45 AM

I have that problem too. I'm going to use a cut-off wheel to remove the bad and then I'm going to use cut strips from 18 gauge steel wall studs for the repair....cut to size with the cutoff wheel as well...very inexpensive and really easy to get those bends...one could acquire these from the scrap pile at any commercial construction site.....Once it's fitted and tacked into place....you'd never know the difference!!!

mAdMoPaR · August 21, 2009, 11:27:54 PM

Well here the pics of the replacement panels that I have found so far. From what I can see, they look like they are all I need to fix this. Have thought of cutting and patching like SilverRT and TC69 mentioned after I glanced through a book called Project Charger which I sure some of you might be familiar with. They had a similar problem but used some kind of mesh screen and filler (lead?). I will try to clean it up a bit more this weekend and see how bad it really is. BTW what the heck is a Dutchman panel?

HollyWoodCharger · August 22, 2009, 03:28:49 AM

Quote from: mAdMoPaR on August 21, 2009, 11:27:54 PM
Well here the pics of the replacement panels that I have found so far. From what I can see, they look like they are all I need to fix this. Have thought of cutting and patching like SilverRT and TC69 mentioned after I glanced through a book called Project Charger which I sure some of you might be familiar with. They had a similar problem but used some kind of mesh screen and filler (lead?). I will try to clean it up a bit more this weekend and see how bad it really is. BTW what the heck is a Dutchman panel?

The bottom photo in your last post is sometimes refered to as the Dutchman panel..

b5blue · August 22, 2009, 09:28:12 AM

That's exactly what I have also. The AMD filler panel forms the inside edge of the channel and seams like factory leading to the trunk side channels I need also.

Joshua · August 22, 2009, 12:32:39 PM

For the price of those panels, you could buy a small sheet metal brake, a shrinker and make your own panels....then you'd have the tools to make wheel lips and other pieces for various projects.

Mike DC · August 23, 2009, 07:29:32 PM

1. Don't be afraid to try to fabricate your own stuff from scratch. Of course don't try to make a whole new fender or anything, but you'd be surprised how large of a patch piece you might make without ending up worse off than buying a repro. It's not that your work will be that good, it's that the repros are usually that bad.

2. Just because they sell you an entire panel, that doesn't mean you have to us it all. Don't feel like it's always a waste of money if you spend $400 on a patch panel and then cut off & throw away 80% of it. Even the best reproduction parts are generally worse quality than the original stuff. And even if you're dealing with NOS grade replacement parts, the factory's spot welding & stuff is generally better left in place than redone. If the old metal is straight & solid, then keep it. At worst you can re-replace the whole panel at some point in the future.

mAdMoPaR · August 23, 2009, 11:07:49 PM

Didn't get a chance work it on this weekend after all. But I'll try again next weekend. What do you guys recommend for cleaning this up ? All I have is a driil with various wire brushes and a 4 1/2 electric da sander. Also have a puny craftsman compressor (3gal I think). Also figured this is a good a time as any to post a pic of my baby in her current state

b5blue · August 24, 2009, 08:47:18 AM

Good start, nice deck and shade area. Watch out for the little wire wheel pieces...they hurt...

lexxman · August 27, 2009, 09:18:21 PM

I have the same problem with my rear window area(just not as bad).I will be repairing it myself,and I think you you could do the same.It take a little more time,but you can save some money.

The70RT · August 27, 2009, 10:32:40 PM

Like most said. Cut out what is bad and don't wast money on those parts....I don't think it warrants it.

mAdMoPaR · August 28, 2009, 12:01:18 AM

Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate it

I've been a member of another mopar forum for years now and can never really get clear answer ( or only after constant bickering between members) Cool bunch of guys there too but man do they like to whine!

May have to set this to the side for now as I started taking out the dash last night and will continue this weekend.

OneofNoneRT · August 28, 2009, 04:43:43 AM

I am far from done but I have learned a few things I will share...
1 Bag and Tag everything.. Usable or not you may need it for reference..
2. Pics.. alot! pics are worth a million words.. can save you headache later..
3. RUST, Is Thou Enemy! There is 10 times more there than you realize...
4. Air compressor, BIG Holding tank, The larger the better, You will be blasting, even if spot blasting you will wipeout a small tank Quickly, and wasting valuable time and effort. Also a good DA or even a die grinder will outpace most residential compressors..
5. Sand blast Media gets everywhere! Avoid it if possible, But it is a neccessary evil..
6. sweep the floor before starting to work, Then after , any brackets, bolts, clips.clamps found that are not identified can go in with the days project. try to figure out where it goes now , not 3 years from now.

Mike DC · August 28, 2009, 06:11:16 AM

Good advice there. Man, #6 is so damn true.

If you really are in the market for an air compressor then PLEASE, get an older design oil-filled one with a belt driven motor. IMHO the modern "oil free" compressors are shit regardless of the brand or model.

And a compressor motor's CFM flow rating is much more important than the highest possible tank pressure it can achieve.

Belgium R/T -68 · August 28, 2009, 02:59:13 PM

Had the same problem at the rear window, used small selfmade pieces to weld in. the only sheetmetal I bought was the front floor.
And yes, like stated before: lots of pics and save EVERYTHING.

Per

lexxman · August 28, 2009, 06:35:17 PM

Hey,about that #6 so true,I got my car in boxes.Man do I wish I had taken it apart.Good luck and keep us updated.

Charger440RDN · September 04, 2009, 05:39:46 PM

What did you decide to do to repair the window frame? Any updates?

mAdMoPaR · September 05, 2009, 01:05:36 AM

Haven't decided yet. Kinda set it aside for now and started working on removing the dash/windshield. Although I am leaning a bit toward repairing the damaged parts instead of replacing it with new panels.

elacruze · September 05, 2009, 05:20:51 PM

My rear was good on the bottom, but bad under the vinyl roof. Here's pics of the repair.
Too easy. Two pieces of sheetmetal, tin snips, bend by hand, weld in, grind, finish, paint.
YMMV.

mAdMoPaR · September 05, 2009, 07:03:44 PM

^^^

That's probably the route I will be taking. It was mentioned in some earlier post. What gauge sheet metal did you use? What type of welder did you use? (MIG,flux,etc.) I"ve been kinda researching a few mig/flux combo welders at Sears that are under 300 bucks. Any suggestions? I haven't welded anything since high school and even then I really just screwed around melting and burning stuff

Should of paid more attention!

elacruze · September 05, 2009, 10:17:21 PM

18 gauge, 90 amp lincoln MIG.

I have to add, that I'm not the body guy. I've done it, but not on anything I needed to turn out perfect; I don't have the patience for this much bodywork. If you want/need to do all your own work, I admire you for that. I had to admit that after owning the car for 30 years, I was never going to get to it.

I'm digesting the strategy for the 'new' 440. I'm much more motivated by the part that makes noise.

green69rt · September 05, 2009, 11:05:28 PM

Quote from: Belgium R/T -68 on August 28, 2009, 02:59:13 PM
Had the same problem at the rear window, used small selfmade pieces to weld in. the only sheetmetal I bought was the front floor.
And yes, like stated before: lots of pics and save EVERYTHING.

Per

I agree, think about some small patches first. This is a good place to perfect your talents at making patches. There will be more in your future. Remember that the grinder is the welders best friend.

lexxman · September 09, 2009, 06:20:12 PM

Hey,that welder should to fine ,I got a 140amp lincoln.I'm a welder by trade and if I had the power requirement in my garage I'd had a full size miller.But for welding sheet metal the 140amp works good.I'll be glad when I'm done remodeling my downstairs so I can get back to work on my charger.

green69rt · September 09, 2009, 06:39:24 PM

Quote from: mAdMoPaR on September 05, 2009, 07:03:44 PM
^^^

That's probably the route I will be taking. It was mentioned in some earlier post. What gauge sheet metal did you use? What type of welder did you use? (MIG,flux,etc.) I"ve been kinda researching a few mig/flux combo welders at Sears that are under 300 bucks. Any suggestions? I haven't welded anything since high school and even then I really just screwed around melting and burning stuff
Should of paid more attention!

On the subject of welding, are you experienced? if not your local highschool or Junior college may have a short course to get you started.

I have a Hobart 140 and it has been great. Got a good deal on it through Northern tools (I think). Welder, cart, gas kit, self diming mask for about $550 with free shipping. I learned to weld on big Lincolns and found it was harder to turn them down far enough to weld sheet metal.

The car is mostly 18 Ga with a litttle 20 ga and then some 10-14 ga for the frames and a small welder can handle all of those. Don't try flux core unless yuou have to, smoke and splatter makes a mess, use shielding gas.

mAdMoPaR · September 10, 2009, 10:28:54 PM

No experience unfortunately. Have thought about taking some courses locally though. A buddy from work recommended a Hobart 125 I think. It does flux and mig and is kinda of newbie friendly.

green69rt · September 10, 2009, 10:43:24 PM

Quote from: mAdMoPaR on September 10, 2009, 10:28:54 PM
No experience unfortunately. Have thought about taking some courses locally though. A buddy from work recommended a Hobart 125 I think. It does flux and mig and is kinda of newbie friendly.

Does it have the gas option? The smaller ones don't have the connections. I advise not getting a welder without the gas option. You'll get sick of flux welding really fast.

mAdMoPaR · September 10, 2009, 10:54:17 PM

Quote from: green69rt on September 10, 2009, 10:43:24 PM
Quote from: mAdMoPaR on September 10, 2009, 10:28:54 PM
No experience unfortunately. Have thought about taking some courses locally though. A buddy from work recommended a Hobart 125 I think. It does flux and mig and is kinda of newbie friendly.

Does it have the gas option? The smaller ones don't have the connections. I advise not getting a welder without the gas option. You'll get sick of flux welding really fast.

Not sure. But I think I found the one he was talking about. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200127024_200127024

green69rt · September 11, 2009, 09:55:26 AM

Quote
Quote
Does it have the gas option? The smaller ones don't have the connections. I advise not getting a welder without the gas option. You'll get sick of flux welding really fast.

Not sure. But I think I found the one he was talking about. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200127024_200127024

That rig does not use gas unless you buy the adaptor kit ($90). The description also says that it only uses 4 inch wire spools. If you do much welding you'll run thru that spool pretty quick. My 140 can hold a 10 inch spool. I know it's more money but watch for a sale or look for a used one. Spend some time and look around.

lexxman · September 11, 2009, 11:54:23 AM

A sheilding gas is a must for sheet metal and I would say try welding some scrap pieces together first to get a feel for it and to set the temp and wire speed.

green69rt · September 11, 2009, 02:05:01 PM

Quote from: lexxman on September 11, 2009, 11:54:23 AM
A sheilding gas is a must for sheet metal and I would say try welding some scrap pieces together first to get a feel for it and to set the temp and wire speed.

roger01 · September 11, 2009, 03:56:15 PM

im with them get the gas

Mike DC · September 11, 2009, 09:00:29 PM

I agree, use shielding gas or forget it.

----------------------------------

And in terms of the ability to weld thick metal, all the welders tend to be advertised to be more capable than they are in the real world.
(For example I've used a couple of name-brand 120 volt MIGs that were advertised as being capable of doing 3/8" steel, but I wouldn't even trust them on 1/4" thick.)

Furthermore, it's easier to weld as a beginner if you err on the side of slightly smaller wire diameters and compensate with more voltage. This is another reason not to try welding at the very edge of the machine's capabilities.

green69rt · September 11, 2009, 10:48:32 PM

Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on September 11, 2009, 09:00:29 PM

I agree, use shielding gas or forget it.
----------------------------------
And in terms of the ability to weld thick metal, all the welders tend to be advertised to be more capable than they are in the real world.
(For example I've used a couple of name-brand 120 volt MIGs that were advertised as being capable of doing 3/8" steel, but I wouldn't even trust them on 1/4" thick.)

Furthermore, it's easier to weld as a beginner if you err on the side of slightly smaller wire diameters and compensate with more voltage. This is another reason not to try welding at the very edge of the machine's capabilities.

Yeah, I use .025 wire and started at the lowest voltage setting to avoid burning thru the sheet metal. As I got better I upped the voltage. Practice and skill count!

lexxman · September 12, 2009, 10:54:13 AM

One thing to try as well,set the welder higher and do quick shot of the trigger in a row .You'll get good penetration and it won't heat the part as much.And if you're doing body panels don't weld to much in one spot at one time,because you may warp the panel.Keep a cold wet rag near by to cool the metal after welding.

green69rt · September 12, 2009, 11:02:27 AM

This is turning into an online welding course.

Welding takes getting a lot of things right, wire speed, voltage, gas flow, and travel speed of the gun and these things change depending on metal gauge and composition, welder brand (they're not all calibrated the same) time of day and phase of the moon. This is why practice is so important.

lexxman · September 14, 2009, 05:27:51 PM

That's what I like about this site.you ask a question and most time's you get info over load.If you want it or not.

mAdMoPaR · September 15, 2009, 11:13:58 PM

It's all good to me!!

mAdMoPaR · April 19, 2013, 01:55:28 PM

Forgot all about this tread, I guess I'll continue using it for future updates and questions if its ok.
Finally done (somewhat) with the lower rear window corners. Just need a final skimming of filler.
Will post my results soon.
Moved on to the trunk floor. Removed old floor and center brace and cleaned it up a bit.
Have welded in the first half of a two piece kit and will hopefully have the second half in this weekend.
The floor came in bare metal and was wondering what's the best way to temporally protect it once its all welded in?
My car sits outside with no deck lid. Epoxy primer is planned for the future but not till I do some body work and find a spray gun that will spray the primer with crappy compressor.

Dino · April 19, 2013, 03:19:47 PM

It's epoxy primer that you need, you'll just waste time and money using anything else. After stripping a car you need to get the epoxy on there. Then you start the body work. The first primer is sacrifical and is only there for temporary protection really.

Lose the crappy compressor and spend $50 - $100 on CL for a very nice used one. Get the harbor freight gun, it's perfect for shooting primer and real cheap.

mAdMoPaR · April 19, 2013, 04:43:10 PM

I was afraid of that lol ok well I may have to push it up a bit.
I do happen to have a hb spray gun i got specifically for primer
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/paint/industrial-paint-spray-gun-43760.html
Is this the one your referring to? I got it hoping that my compressor
Would be able to work with. It's a Campbell hausfeld 30 gallon 5.7 Cfm at 90 I think. Primer I'm thinking
of going with spi, seems to be the popular choice.

Dino · April 20, 2013, 12:30:18 PM

Quote from: mAdMoPaR on April 19, 2013, 04:43:10 PM
I was afraid of that lol ok well I may have to push it up a bit.
I do happen to have a hb spray gun i got specifically for primer
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/paint/industrial-paint-spray-gun-43760.html
Is this the one your referring to? I got it hoping that my compressor
Would be able to work with. It's a Campbell hausfeld 30 gallon 5.7 Cfm at 90 I think. Primer I'm thinking
of going with spi, seems to be the popular choice.

Not the gun I had in mind but it's fine, nothing wrong with an old bottom feeder! I'm not familiar with spi but if it's epoxy it'll be fine I'm sure. Compressor is a bit weak but it will work for primer. I wouldn't spray clear with it as you don't have the option to stop painting half way, waiting for the compressor to catch up. You can do that with primer however.

Mix the primer and activator by the manufactureres recommendation. Don't try to thin it more or experiment with it when it's not working right. Either adjust the gun or compressor but don't mess with the paint itself or you're going to be kicking yourself for a very long time.

Good luck and keep us posted!

b5blue · April 20, 2013, 02:20:13 PM

Get the "HVLP" gravity feed gun from them. It uses less air and sprayed well for me.

lexxman · April 20, 2013, 04:19:13 PM

Ya I picked one up a wile ago and painted my sons car and my motorcycle. Worked out nicely.

mAdMoPaR · April 20, 2013, 05:26:08 PM

Getting hot out!

so taking a break from trunk floor part two, got it all clamped up and ready to weld.
Base/clear is definitely out of the question. I never planned on doing that my self anyway. Way beyond me and don't exactly have ideal painting conditions in my little driveway lol. Once I have it all welded in I guess I can order the primer and look into the other guns. Thanks guys!

Patronus · April 23, 2013, 12:53:40 PM

Some SS colors look better than B/C

b5blue · April 23, 2013, 02:00:17 PM

That's why I'm going with SS pure white, is it what I want (B5 Blue) no, is it good enough for now, sure.

fy469rtse · April 25, 2013, 04:54:59 AM

Quote from: mAdMoPaR on August 21, 2009, 12:33:05 AM
Hello all, Long time reader first time post. Need a little advice on fixin the rear window channel on my 68 charger (see pics) Should I replace with new sheet metal? or does it look like i might be repairable? Gonna have the trunk floor replaced so I figured it might be easier to replace the deck panel at least with the trunk floor removed. Not sure how easy the sail panels are to replace though, not really a bodywork type.

now is the time to do it properly, otherwise it will come back to haunt you later , cut it , get the new panels , I think charger specialtys have a good fit sail panels replace the deck or Dutchman panel you might also need lower window frame, you will know once you get Dutchman panel cut out, it will give you a chance to clean up plenum under that, even if you can't do body work, I'm sure someone has posted photos on here as a guide, at least if you remove all this and know you need , less work and cost for who ever does the work for you

mAdMoPaR · May 19, 2013, 12:23:14 AM

Window corners done!

mAdMoPaR · May 19, 2013, 12:32:41 AM

Finished truck lock support along with spare tire and jack braces/brackets.

mAdMoPaR · May 19, 2013, 12:38:45 AM

Will be skim coating welds with duraglas before primer. Should seam sealer come before or after primer? Was thinking of using Evercoat brushable seam sealer.

Fred · May 19, 2013, 12:41:54 AM

After primer.

lexxman · May 22, 2013, 10:03:04 PM

Looks good.

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Repair or replace