Overheating issue resolved....interesting read !

[ACUDANUT]

Painting aluminum is a bad idea imo. It defeats the look and retains heat more. 

[greenpigs]

I don't like the look, as my car is mostly stock and an aluminum intake would look out of place or I think it did. Not sure if it effects the thermal properties any but I didn't see any negatives when I searched.

[bakerhillpins]

Here it is – an evaluation for water pumps...

Below you will see 4 water pumps for B and BR blocks.
From right to left my evaluation and opinion. But first I would like to say, the far right impeller that is a cast swirl – that is - take it and throw it back at anyone that wants to sell it to you. They are absolute crap. These housings are NOT designed for these types of impellers.

8 Blade impeller Cast Iron - Stock: This is the air conditioning water pump. There are 8 blades but they are smaller and add up to the same amount of blade surface as the 6 bladed pumps. Behind the blades it is smooth, with a channel to help the water flow without turbulence, or creating a pocket of water churning and causing restriction.

6 Blade impeller Cast Iron: This is a well done water pump, and I believe the best. The 6 blades add up to the same surface area as the 8 blades, and the blades are taller and helps to create a better flow without fighting itself. There is also a smooth surface behind the blades as the 8 bladed pump, with a channel to allow the water to flow smooth without

[lots of snipage]

As I understand it you have the AC and non AC pumps backwards. According to the 69 FSM the pump for a 440 is the following read as diameter-blades:

4.38"-8 standard
3.50"-6 A/C

It should also be noted that the AC pump spins at a faster rate compared to the non AC in relation to the fan.
The FSM says that the Fan to Crankshaft ratio is .95 to 1 for a non AC 440 or 383. Its 1.40 to 1 for an AC 440 or 383.

[ACUDANUT]

"As I understand it you have the AC and non AC pumps backwards"
I don't see this happening. The water pumps only spin one way. With or without A/C.
Haven't we covered this subject before ?   

[mauve66]

i think he meant labled in the pics or by definition, not direction of rotation, at least that's the way i took it

[bakerhillpins]

i think he meant labled in the pics or by definition, not direction of rotation, at least that's the way i took it

Yes, the previous author had the # of blades on a pump w/AC vs w/o/AC backwards.

[Brads70]

My alltime favorite pump is the Milidon HV unit which has an anti-cavitation plate welded on the impeller. 


Ron

Just ordered one....mine is fine till sitting in traffic. I believe it's a flow issue, or lack there of ? Thanks for the great thread all!

[68CoronetRT]

Just ordered one....mine is fine till sitting in traffic. I believe it's a flow issue, or lack there of ? Thanks for the great thread all!

I have the Milodan HV and I only get hot in traffic. I think I'm going to try a fan shroud and maybe a clutch fan that comes is alot sooner.

[v21hemicharger]

I have just made some changes to my car.  I had an aluminum northern radiator, dual Spal 12" highest cfm fans they made, 440 source pump and housing.  I was tired of not driving because of overheating.  When I did a track day, I was 220 on track and 230 coming off track into pits.  I was having so much fun I didn't care, but had to something before I went on track again.  I read this entire thread and I did this:  Mancini pump and housing, viscious fan kit, Wizard Cooling 1.25 tube radiator and aluminum shroud.  I had the housing powdercoated so I just installed pump, fan and radiator.  I had to use the Jag clutch as the one with the viscious fan was too long.  I also had the shroud powdercoated so I put on a stock shroud from my GTX.  Although the ambient temp was only 90 outside the gauge never went over 180 driving or in traffic.  I'm a happy camper now.

My combo is 512 low deck stroker, cnc edlebrocks, holley street dominator, BG 850, .590 racer brown 272 @ .050, 4 speed w/ gearvendor, 4.10 dana.  Can't wait to take it back to track now that I wired my GV unit and have the od.  I did have to cut the XV brace off and add the spacers they provided and re-weld, but I'm so glad I have a car I can beat on and not worry abour heat.  Mike

[Steve P.]

A few things I'd like to mention:

1)  Anytime you are having an issue with something, you should change 1 part at a time. I know this can be a pain in the ass and even more costly in some cases, but if you change everything you will never know what the real problem was to begin with.

2) I am wondering if they do use a different style of pump for each case? I come to this question because my time in the Navy was spent working on many types of pumps and cooling systems. The cast curled style pump was found on every pump I ever worked on and some of those pumps made 400 pounds of pressure with an huge volume of water.. Fire pumps and transfer pumps come to mind. Also some monster pumps from submarines that moved enormous amounts of water very fast used them. 

I know from the results found here the flat blade pumps seem to work the best with this design housing. But I really wonder if it's more the small throughway in the pump housing or what? Maybe even the largest housing isn't open enough for the curled iron impeller.


One last thing. Someone mentioned that the pumps only turn one way. This is not exactly true. In my hopes of putting a single belt system on my 440 and adding an AC pump in the fuel pump area, I would have needed a pump that could run the opposite direction from the norm. Knowing they use opposing 440's in the marine industry I contacted a marine parts house here in Florida and asked many questions. The answer to (Are the pumps and housings different from a clockwise and counterclockwise engines different) was NO. He looked up both and the same numbers came up for each. I then asked what the pump number was and he gave me 2 numbers. In cross, one was standard automotive and the other was marine use grass impeller. I called him back and his answer to this question was that some boats are direct seawater and others use a heat exchanger.. With the heat exchanger they use antifreeze/coolant on the engine side and seawater for the heat exchange.  But both pumps have straight blades. Neither were the curled type.   

[Brads70]

My alltime favorite pump is the Milidon HV unit which has an anti-cavitation plate welded on the impeller. 


Ron

Just ordered one....mine is fine till sitting in traffic. I believe it's a flow issue, or lack there of ? Thanks for the great thread all!

Didn't help..... I then changed to a triple pass rad....same thing, different electric fan.....same thing. I just bought the FBO distributor limiter plate kit . I'll try it and plugging up the vac advance as it's only when sitting in traffic on a hot day. At 210 ( not the end of the world I know) I lift up the hood and pour a couple of water bottles and it drops back to 180 for about 10 minutes. On the hwy or around town it's fine, Just not happy idling?

[myk]

Pour a couple bottles of water?

[Bob T]

Steve P, good points on the marine application and curved vanes vs straight, thanks. I recently changed out the contactor for the bow thruster on an 85m Navy patrol vessel, the pump tube was about 1600mm across and draws 1200A!

I'm up for a new water pump shortly as we found when we changed out the dizzy and rev n nator ecu recently that the pump has not much resistance and spins a lot more easily than it should ( relatively ). The mechanic mate giving me a hand with it suggested that the seals are getting tired and worn.

[Brads70]

Pour a couple bottles of water?

Ya when I'm on a longer than normal trip like driving to Carlisle I keep a mid sized cooler in the back seat with water on ice. Some for me and some for the car if the temps start creeping up. Usually at border crossings or toll booths where I'm stuck sitting 20 minutes or more. I just open the hood and pour a couple of water bottles over the rad to cool it down. It's not something I do often just on long trips.

[Steve P.]

I'm not real fond of pouring cold water over a hot radiator. I know people do, but I'd be worried I would crack it. 

[greenpigs]

I would keep a couple jugs of ambient temperature water for the car & save the COLD stuff for yourself.

[Ghoste]

One of the auto aftermarket accessories you could get back in the thirties (or further back even maybe?) was a water bag that you could hang on the neck of the rad filler on those old jalopies and then when it puked or got hot you had a bunch of water ready to go.

[mopar0166]

I guess in concluesion - use the stock water pump housing( didnt really ead that thier was a good alum choice) high flow pump and thermostat?        im thinking i need to change my housing but and trying to eliminate everything else first

[Ghoste]

I think there are some good aluminum pump housings.  I like the Mancini one I have.

[mopar0166]

Im kinda on the fence on whihc one i might have.  Im also thinkin its need timing and adjust ment more

[stuubi]

Here's mine 440source pump housing,and orginal that came of my 383.
Can someone point please wehere the problem is?

Ive tried to check every passage and can't see difference??Too blind to see?

[greenpigs]

This is an old subject..check the dates.

I think 440 source fixed the problem but some older housings are floating around, so buy new.

[charger Downunder]

I think the restriction was seen when looking down through the thermostat housing.

[stuubi]

This is an old subject..check the dates.

I think 440 source fixed the problem but some older housings are floating around, so buy new.

5 previous post's than mine were dated 1.12.2013-20.1.2014 so i thought this was still up to date.My bad,sorry but thanks for additional info bro's.I'll check mine.They were bought late 2013.Both pump and housing but i qremember quikly looking into the thermostat housing and it seemed same as orginal.
Yes i know that in the picture,upper hose is still connected

[firefighter3931]

Here's mine 440source pump housing,and orginal that came of my 383.
Can someone point please wehere the problem is?

Ive tried to check every passage and can't see difference??Too blind to see?

The issue on mine was in the water passages. Do a finger sweep inside the openings and compare the stock housing vs 440 source. My 440 source upper passages were severely restricted. At the time, 440 source was sourcing the housings from CAT but did eventually switch suppliers. A buddy had one from a different production run and his was fine.


Ron