Overheating issue resolved....interesting read !

[Dduke69]

Just thought I would throw my 2 cents in. I am running a 500 c.i.d. stroker with lots of 440 Source parts including the water pump housing, water pump, and their thermostat housing. The engine is running 11.2:1 compression with .571 lift roller cam. Engineered air 22" 2 row x 1 inch core aluminum rad. I started with a 180* high flow thermostat and a 7 blade fan with a clutch on it. During initial break in and for a while after that the engine would run all day long in the garage at 180*. Then my first real road trip the engine would go up to about 220-230* and as soon as I got it in the garage and shut it off it would boil over. So the first thing I did is instal a 6 blade flex a lite fan thinking air flow was the problem. No dice, exact same overheating. Next I ripped out the fan and installed two 12" electric fans and it got a little better. It would still run very hot but not boil over when shut off. Then I read the water pump test section (pages 8 and 9) of this thread and decided to replace the water pump with a MP aluminum pump. This helped a little but it still ran up to 210-215*. So I ordered a new housing from Summit Racing. Even though my 440 Source housing was purchased in 2015 there are two port holes that are slightly restrictive. Even compared to the stock housing I have there was a noticeable difference in the passenger side lower channel. At the same time I picked up a new chrome thermostat housing. The thermo housing leaked like a sieve. I pulled it off and put it on a piece of glass to find it had a slight wobble low in the centre high at the bolt holes. Took a medium file and filed down the area around both bold holes until it sat flat in the glass. Gave it a good sanding and re installed it. Sealed up good. This thermo housing is better due to more space above the thermostat and the ID of the outlet is 1/16 larger than the 440 Source housing. Same size as the stock 440 housing. Now the car Idles in the garage at about 170*, took it out today and ran it for about 1 1/2 hours and it ran 180-195* the whole time. I can live with those temps. I have been told once the engine is more broken in it won't run as hot. Just happy I can actually drive the car now and find out. The bottom line is Both the 440 Source water pump and the housing are no good. Their housing is spaced to work well with their pump so when I put a new pump on there was too much space between the pump impellers and the housing. The Proflow housing I bought from Summit Racing is about 1/8 of an inch more shallow from the water pump mounting surface to the back. Plus the four holes/channels are even slightly larger than the stock housing which is better than the 440 source housing as well. So my problem seems to have been a combination of the pump, and the housing and possibly even the thermo housing as well. Now I will hunt for a water pump with the 4 3/8 inch wide impeller spread like the stock one that came out of my 440 originally. Even the MP high flow pump has a impeller spread of 3 15/16 and the impeller blades themselves are noticeably smaller on the MP pump. If anybody knows where to get one like this please post! Hope this helps some people!

[cjw916]

Ron, I read all 16 pages. Having bought my 440Source Alum housing & pump in 2011, I figured that I got one of the 'bad ones'. My new 516hp 448" has been over heating. Runs 210+ on the highway and keeps climbing. If I run the inside heater MaxHot, it will keep it from over heating. My housing says PRW on it. And I had the 440Source pump in it. Before the new engine, I upgraded to a 26" 4 core Champion radiator. I have twin 12" puller fans & a 16" pusher fan. I looked in the radiator w/ cap removed, there was like NO flow going across tank when car got up to 190+ and thermostat was open. I could *barely see the coolant move when I revved the engine to 2000.

[cjw916]

It seems as though the 'turbine style' pump is the problem, not so much the housing; so I ordered the Milodon High Volume pump #16260 and Milodon High Flow 180 degree thermostat #16406. I pulled my pump, and indeed, it is the crap design. I kept the PRW housing, cleaned up the sealing surfaces & installed the Milodon pump & thermostat. (note: order a thermostat housing gasket, if you care to use one, the Milodon thermostat does *not come with a gasket, I had to run to my local parts whorehouse.) I started the car & let it get to 180 degrees, the flow across the radiator was 3x at idle, what it was before, when revving 2000+! When I blipped the throttle, it was like a rushing river rapids! I took the car out for a spin, dash gauge came up to 170 and never went above it. I have an accessory Stewart Warner temperature gauge, with the electric sending unit in the bottom of the Alum radiator, in the petcock hole. The SW gauge came up to 175 and *never went above! I went 10 miles down the interstate (normally car would be 210+ by then) and SW gauge still said 175. Man! I am SO happy I found this thread and got that shit 440Source pump out of my car! My big Alum Rad is FINALLY working the way it is supposed to! Before new pump, carbs (I have Eddy 2x4bbl setup) would get SO hot, I would nearly burn my fingers removing the air cleaner knurled nuts. After new pump, they were much, MUCH less hot, I could easily hold my hand on each after blast down interstate (not possible before).

[rcannon440]

I have this overheating issue with my Charger. I drive it most every weekend and last year I install A/C but the first time I used it at soon as I turned the A/C on my temp went to 215-220 even at highway speed which should be enough airflow. I talked with Scott from Wizard cooling at the Carlisle show this year and he hooked me up with the extra heavy duty 1.25 inch radiator and dual electric fan shroud. I will have it in 2 weeks and we will see. I already have the Milidon water pump and Mopar performance housing with aluminum heads. My current radiator is aluminum Griffin one size fits all racing radiator. I also knocked out a freeze plug just to make sure the block wasn't clogged with junk, it was clear. I will hopefully be giving a  positive update soon.

[cjw916]

As well as using 2 SPAL 12" (1,225cfm each) puller fans, I've upgraded to 2 generic eBay 16" (2,500cfm each!) pusher fans 'for emergency' use (they're wired to a separate toggle & relay). The pullers come on w/ a 185° thermal ground switch located in the water pump housing. If it's *super hot out, I can toggle the twin 16" pushers on. When I click them on you can literally watch the temp needle go down. :-)

[holanae]

I read all 16 pages hoping to see if anybody is have the same issue with the aluminum housing & pump setup from Summit, and nothing.  My temps creep up to 210-215 in stop or go traffic.  I don't know the manufacturer of the Summit Aluminum housing but I would have to guess it is restrictive, and that I need a better pump than what came with if from summit.  Now the decision to change both, or try the pump first. Mancini or Mildon?

[303 Mopar]

I read all 16 pages hoping to see if anybody is have the same issue with the aluminum housing & pump setup from Summit, and nothing.  My temps creep up to 210-215 in stop or go traffic.  I don't know the manufacturer of the Summit Aluminum housing but I would have to guess it is restrictive, and that I need a better pump than what came with if from summit.  Now the decision to change both, or try the pump first. Mancini or Mildon?

Mancini is the same as Milodon.  I put one on my 505 stroker and the temp never gets above 180.

[holanae]

Ordered a Milodon pump, when I remove the old pump I'm going to check the port holes for restriction.  If so, I will hold off on installing the Milodon pump until I can get a replacement housing.

[cjw916]

I really feel the bulk of the problem is not the housing, but rather, the pump. I think the higher head pressure of the Milodon pump, circulates coolant through the cylinder heads, better.

New Milodon pump cured my troubles. Good luck.

[fy469rtse]

There's an old thread on here somewhere
Testing of all known and new shiny aftermarket water pumps
Guy's
Ma mopar had it right , hemi water pump , it doesn't fail me to use one everytime
Tried those others and had issues
Stroker victor headed 543  high 600'slift solid roller, 12.1. To 1 comp
Champion large 3pass core aluminium radiator
Hand made aluminium shroud steel fan ,no clutch
On an engine this size on the street , don't notice any loss of horsepower , runs temps like its a stock 440

[misty440]

I see this is an old post but would like some clues to my overheating issue. I run a 60 over 440 and installed a be cool aluminum radiator years ago in an attempt to lower my temps. The car has sat for 20 yrs and I just got her road worthy again a few weeks ago. She was running well around the neighborhood and I took her out for a longer ride yesterday only to run extremely hot when I got back home. Inside temp was too hot I thought things were going to melt. I have the stock water pump which is not leaking and wonder if the pump can go bad without showing leaking symptoms? I am running a 180' thermostat cant remember which brand. Installed it back in the early 90's. I have a fan shroud and my fan is mounted directly to the pump no clutch. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I am looking at the Milodon pump recommended here or the Hemi pump. Which is my better choice?
Thanks,
Chris

[green69rt]

I see this is an old post but would like some clues to my overheating issue. I run a 60 over 440 and installed a be cool aluminum radiator years ago in an attempt to lower my temps. The car has sat for 20 yrs and I just got her road worthy again a few weeks ago. She was running well around the neighborhood and I took her out for a longer ride yesterday only to run extremely hot when I got back home. Inside temp was too hot I thought things were going to melt. I have the stock water pump which is not leaking and wonder if the pump can go bad without showing leaking symptoms? I am running a 180' thermostat cant remember which brand. Installed it back in the early 90's. I have a fan shroud and my fan is mounted directly to the pump no clutch. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I am looking at the Milodon pump recommended here or the Hemi pump. Which is my better choice?
Thanks,
Chris

First thing I would do is replace the thermostat, make sure you get one that works by testing it.  Put it in a pan of water and bring to a boil,  You should see the thermostat open.  Also do a drain, flush, fill of the system.  Go from there.

[misty440]

Thanks Green 69RT. I installed a new thermostat but unfortunately I did not check it externally before installation. I still over heated and my gas was bubbling in the see thru fuel filter and the car stalled. I pulled the water pump last night to check it internally and it appears fine. The fins all look intact and the impeller has not broken loose from the shaft. I had removed all of the fluid last year and added fresh 100% green anti-freeze. I will now re-install the original water pump.  I will pull the new 180' thermostat tonight and place it in hot water to make sure it is opening. If that is fine then I am stuck in what to do next? What is the proper way to flush the system and how would I check for blockage? Has anyone had to upgrade their water pump from a perfectly functioning pump just to prevent overheating?
Thanks for your help,
Chris

[BLK 68 R/T]

[ added fresh 100% green anti-freeze.
[/quote]

This implies there is no water mixed with it? Are you running just straight anti-freeze?

[misty440]

Correct. I did not add any water. I was informed by someone to run straight antifreeze. Would straight antifreeze cause an issue?
Thanks again,
Chris

[BLK 68 R/T]

Correct. I did not add any water. I was informed by someone to run straight antifreeze. Would straight antifreeze cause an issue?
Thanks again,
Chris

Yes, it will cause issues. I would try draining the radiator and refill with distilled water to just above the tubes in the radiator. Start it and let it circulate good for a while, then measure the coolant to see if the freeze temp is within acceptable levels for your area. You can drain and refill from there if necessary with either distilled water or coolant. Water cools better than antifreeze. Antifreeze is added as a rust inhibitor, lubricant and hence the name - to keep it from freezing. A properly functioning radiator cap is also a must as it keeps the system pressurized which increases the boiling point and keeps the coolant where it is supposed to be.

[alfaitalia]

It's a waste of anti freeze running at 100 % but wont affect the running temp of the engine by any amount you could measure in normal street use...your problem is elsewhere.

[BLK 68 R/T]

It's a waste of anti freeze running at 100 % but wont affect the running temp of the engine by any amount you could measure in normal street use...your problem is elsewhere.

I disagree. Do a quick google search on which one cools better and everything will say that water will cool better than glycol.

[alfaitalia]

I read that too...but unless you race it or have a car that runs right at the limit of is cooling capacity you won't see the difference on the gauge. Its suppose to be about 30 % less heat transfer ability than water....but if your fan is doing its job and cooling system is in good order it won't matter....will probably get up to temp quicker though! I confess that I know this from running neat AF in my old V6 Ford Capri (wish I still had it!) when I was 18 and knew nothing about cars- after being told it would keep my car cooler..lol. Was like that for nearly two years....made no difference. I'm not saying I recommend it though !

[BLK 68 R/T]

Here is one article I found.
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/glycol-or-water-coolant/

[misty440]

Thanks guys for all the feedback. I will reinstall the pump and correct my water mixture. I was also picking one of my friends brains and he suggested to make a better fan shroud. I currently have an aftermarket 18" fan with an aftermarket fan shroud that covers the top half and he suggested to buy another half shroud and mount it upside down and bolting them together to make a complete circle if that makes sense. I will add some water wetter or equivalent additive to attempt to lower the temps even more. I will also add another spacer to the pump to bring the fan closer to the radiator as it now sits about 2 1/2" away and is only 1/2" into the fan shroud in attempt to get better airflow. How do this sound? Am I missing anything? I will respond with my results.
Thanks again for all your guys support,
Chris

[BLK 68 R/T]

The fan shroud needs a good seal to the radiator as well. If you bolt some shroud on there that has all sorts of large air gaps around it and it doesn't cover the whole surface of the radiator, then you might as well not mess with it. Otherwise the fan will just pull hot air around the shroud, instead of pulling air from outside the engine bay through the radiator. Also make sure your lower radiator hose has a spring inside of it to keep it from collapsing.

[cdr]

I read that too...but unless you race it or have a car that runs right at the limit of is cooling capacity you won't see the difference on the gauge. Its suppose to be about 30 % less heat transfer ability than water....but if your fan is doing its job and cooling system is in good order it won't matter....will probably get up to temp quicker though! I confess that I know this from running neat AF in my old V6 Ford Capri (wish I still had it!) when I was 18 and knew nothing about cars- after being told it would keep my car cooler..lol. Was like that for nearly two years....made no difference. I'm not saying I recommend it though !

A big block mopar IS at the limit, try cooling one with 100 + deg out side, you need to take advantage of EVERY little thing to help keep them running cool, so YEAH 50,50 mix will help.  A V6 crappy & a 440  comparison on overheating problems LOL

[alfaitalia]

I guess so.....but there has only ever been one day a temperature was recorded over 100 in the UK ...for interest it was in 2003 in Faversham Kent..101.3F. So over heating is not the problem here it would be in the Southern U.S. Nothing wrong with Ford Capri! A good one will set you back over £30,000 over here......don't think they were available in the US....but not sure on that.

[INTMD8]

I really feel the bulk of the problem is not the housing, but rather, the pump. I think the higher head pressure of the Milodon pump, circulates coolant through the cylinder heads, better.

New Milodon pump cured my troubles. Good luck.

Good info. The car I just bought has the same prw pump/housing so I will get it replaced before I fire it up