Overheating issue resolved....interesting read !

[femtnmax]

Thanks Ron for starting this post, and thanks to everyone for continuing with updates.  I am building a 383/432 stroker, and had a 440source pump housing on the short block when I spotted this post and looked at the flow/fit.
Mine is a 440source water pump housing with passenger side lower outlet; purchased early 2013 and has the 440s logo on the front drivers side.   The housing internal passages at their most restrictive location had cross section area equal to or about 10% less than the Mopar minimum area.  Look at the photo of the most restrictive location in the ports. So maybe this is better than the earlier housings.  
Now look at the second photo.  The problem I have with the "new" 440s housing is the drivers side water passages are cast closer together than the passenger side, and also the drivers side hole location pair is too high relative to the hole pair in the engine block so as a result there is only 1/16 inch of gasket separating the inlet flow from the outlet flow.  For me this is unacceptable.  
The black felt tip lines on the masking tape are the engine block hole locations.
I may try egg-shaping the drivers side bolt holes and tilting the housing on the engine to increase the gasket area....Kind of mickey mouse and not sure if it will work.  I have also found a nice iron Mopar housing...when it arrives in the mail I'll look at the fit and decide which way to go.

[greenpigs]

I don't know if port matching the housing to the block will improve cooling any but it would increase your chances of getting a leak. Unless your build is some crazy beast I think leaving it alone and making sure the rest of the cooling system is working properly is your better bet.

[tallhair]

Here's mine 440source pump housing,and orginal that came of my 383.
Can someone point please wehere the problem is?

Ive tried to check every passage and can't see difference??Too blind to see?

What happened to the lowest port on the left in the picture?  Did it come that way or did you grind it down for clearance or something?

[Ghoste]

I think it could be the lighting there. 

[Steve P.]

I still have one of the originals that I had planned to use. I haven't touched anything carwise in a few years, but I plan to try to open up the pinch point as much as possible. I have a buddy that is a much better welder than myself, so worst case I may have to add some aluminum. I figure I bought it and paid for it. I would dame sure like to use it.....

I'm thinking cutting some stiff paper templates from a stock housing and going from there. If there is enough meat I will open it up. If not and I can't add and still keep it looking good, I always have the stock iron housing. 

If it works it will just be another talking point of the build. 

[mopar0166]

I have a quick question, i just pulled my housing becuase im still getting temps to high.  Ihave done everything imaginable besides swapping out the housing. 

i ordered a new one from mancini. 

My question is looking down into the space where the thermo stat goes, all i see is a small hole?  Is this suppose to be that size or should it be larger? 

i trust mancini but want confirmation from you guys 

also  how import is it that rthe passages meet up with the gasket as seen above ?

[mopar0166]

 

[Ghoste]

You definitely don't want the gasket blocking any of the passages.

[Steve P.]

I think the small round hole you see is the by-pass.  The main issue with the old version of 440 Source housings was the passage on the passenger bank. When you get your new housing compare the two very closely. Stick your fingers into all the holes in each and compare them one at a time.

No, the gaskets should be well aligned and not blocking the water passages at all. Any time you have a blockage of any sort it can create pressure, volume and cavitation issues. Close off part of a nostril and see the difference for yourself..

[mopar0166]

you can tell the passages are a bit larger on the mancini one, ill have to let you know how it works out. 

[mopar0166]

Small difference  in the temp level, ran better at idle.  guess ill have to keep figuring it out

[Roadrunner]

Had all of you that have these poorly built housings thought about talking to 440 source? give Brandon a chance to make them good or work some thing out? Just a thought

[Ghoste]

I think several people did try that when the issue first came up to no avail.

[500Jon]

WoW, thats some read!
Well done to everyone who has done testing.
Mother Mopar knows best in my BOOK!!! (If it ain't broke, don't fix it methinks)!

Thermostats are the most important part of the system, I would always look there FIRST!
There are hundreds of variables with flow rates in any test on different applications.
Internal rust inside block and heads has a huge bearing on this issue too.

440 Motorhome engines have extra waterways drilled into the top of the block.
This corresponds with the later 'Unleaded Heads' and the Weslake Engine of 1969!!!
Lower row of elliptical slots along lower edge, between bolt holes.
I believe this was to allow heat to be taken away from the plugs and reduce cracking in this area?

Nearly everyone suffers with overheating at sometime, it can be fixed, its just knowing where to start!!!

Well done again to all who have taken time and effort to solve a 'Common Problem' for all Car Guys and Gals!!!
5J

[kiwitrev]

i know this thread has been around a while and i am new here how do i identify this bad pump housing before pulling it off. the enhine in my car was built over 6 years ago then the car really not driven (superbird) i come along and want to drive it and under hood gets so hot the steering col inside the car heats up to the point you cant hold your hand on it

[Silver R/T]

I think you live in a hot climate, need to move from Commiefornia and problem solved

[kiwitrev]

I think you live in a hot climate, need to move from Commiefornia and problem solved

problem sidelined the car in michigan

[Barfyspitz]

[/quote]
problem sidelined the car in michigan
[/quote].          Did you get your problem solved? Mine was overheating just like yours. I replaced the radiator with a  griffin aluminum radiator, flushed the engine about three times. put a different fan on it, changed the thermostat. And it started running around 195°   I took the thermostat, which I think was 180° thermostat, cut the plunger and spring out of it, and now it will run all day long on a hot summer day at about 180°

[ACUDANUT]

Wow, 15 pages to read through. So, which aluminum housing is the best ?

[mopar0166]

I had the best luck with mancini, still on the engine after a year or so. no issues. runs a steady 188-193F

[ACUDANUT]

 

[ACUDANUT]

Mancini's is about as close to our old " Direct Connection" from Chrysler

[rcannon440]

I currently have the Mopar Performance aluminum housing P4286899. Are there any issues with this housing that anyone is aware of?

[Brads70]

Well SOB !     I just took off my 440 source water pump housing ( passenger side inlet) and compared it to the stock cast iron and the lower passages are literally half of the cast iron housing. I can't even get my little finger through the passage, on the stock cast iron I can  get my thumb in there with ease. There are huge restrictions in the 440 source water pump housing ! Now to be fair I won't know how much this matters till I get it back together and test it out.
I have tried  4 different rads, 3 different water pumps and  5 different fans ( mechanical and electric) chasing down my overheating issue!
On another note.... not impressed with Milodon either , the end all be all water pump from them shows signs of leaking out the hole..... it's only 2 years old!  

Thanks to the original poster otherwise I might have never figured this out! 

[rcannon440]

I have gotten my car to run relatively cool at 190-200 until I turn the A/C on then all hell breaks loose at it runs up to 220 and beyond. Why does it run so much hotter with the A/C? It doesn't matter if I'm running 70mph or idling. Only thing I can think of is the condenser is putting off heat but that much? And what's the fix?