Overheating issue resolved....interesting read !

[turbobitt]

I don't for any apology. This want healthy debate based on facts. I have an interest in this because I know mine works with 440 Source pump and housing and have another in a box that I havn't had  a chance to look at or try. There must be a distinctive difference between mine and the suspect unit. I think if they all have the small ports than that is not the root cause. I suspect that it may be an impeller issue or an impeller to housing issue. Lets say for example the impeller was pressed on to deep, without having one in front of me I can't say that it is possible but entertain this thought anyway, the impeller would not pump very well if the clearances were not correct. Hopefully data will be gathered to shed some light.

[TylerCharger69]

Very interesting thread!!!  Probably a lot of problems solved due to this great research!!!   I noticed though.....that the Milodon pump has six impeller blades....I bought a cheap O'reiley's auto parts piece to get me by...and it has eight impeller blades.  Hmmmmm

[62 Max]

The A/C cars got 6 blade pumps,all others got the 8 blade.From the old Direct Connection performance manual the 6 blade was recommend  by Staff Engineer Larry Sheppard ( no connection to the Larry Sheppard in OH) .Stated the slower circulation of the 6 blade pump kept the water in the radiator longer for better cooling.

[bull]

The Stealth Head thread really soured my opinion of 440 Source and this one has pretty much driven the last nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned. Now I've got a $100 paper weight too. How about we all send our pumps and housings to Ron so he can sculpt them together with a welder. Once it's about six feet tall we'll embed it in the sidewalk in front of the 440 Source warehouse.

[400/6/PAC]

I still cant get my car to run normal.
It looks like the water is not circulating.
I pulled the t-stat and still nothing
The housing has the chrysler stamp on the neck part # P4286899
Would an oversized radiator make it look like the water is not moveing.

[Mick70RR]

I ran the car today with the radiator cap off and waited until the thermostat opened. There was little or no flow in the radiator at idle but I could see it flowing when I held the revs up. Does this sound about right, it's a 440 Source housing and pump?

[firefighter3931]

I still cant get my car to run normal.
It looks like the water is not circulating.
I pulled the t-stat and still nothing
The housing has the chrysler stamp on the neck part # P4286899
Would an oversized radiator make it look like the water is not moveing.

It sounds like the pump is not building enough pressure for some reason. You could have an air pocket in the cooling system somewhere. Try elevating the front end on a set of Ramps and run the engine with the cap off....this will purge the air pockets if there are any present. You need a stat or some type of restrictor plate in order for the pump to build up pressure. 

If all that fails then it's time to look at the pump and/or pullies.



Ron

[firefighter3931]

I ran the car today with the radiator cap off and waited until the thermostat opened. There was little or no flow in the radiator at idle but I could see it flowing when I held the revs up. Does this sound about right, it's a 440 Source housing and pump?

Mick, that is what mine looked like....at idle it barely moved at all. 

With the stock housing/milodon pump it is moving significantly faster at idle and when I blip the throttle it looks like a hurricane in there. It's like 2 opposite ends of the spectrum. 

Have you verified your engine temps ? As long as it runs fine i wouldn't worry about it unless a problem develops.



Ron

[Belgium R/T -68]

I can verify that the housing from Summit, partnr 314441, has the same passage as my old stock.

Per

[Mick70RR]

I need an accurate temperature gauge because I have lost all faith in the sender units. I have three of them that give me three different readings on the gauge. One reads very low, one reads about what you would want, the other reads a little higher than you would want.
The engine doesn't overheat or boil over, seems about right when I am under the hood so I am not too concerned. I expected to see more flow across the radiator though and might try a different pump at some time to see if it makes a difference.

[john108]

While accumulating parts, I purchased a 440Source waterpump and housing.  Stull in the original box.  What are the odds that they will take it back??  From this thread, it appears thar the housing has poor flow.  Is the pump also suspect?

[The70RT]

Has anyone run the source pump on a stock housing? If so how is or was the flow?

[y3chargerrt]

The odds are ZERO that they will take it back!

[Musicman]

Ran one quick test this morning...

I used a stock housing with a stock 8 blade pump and ran it 15 times, 2 minutes each time at low RPM's (round town stuff).
I then mounted the 440 source pump on the same housing, ran it 15 times for 2 minutes at the same RPM's.

The stock 8 blade pump moved 15% more water than the 440 unit.

I have not done a high RPM test yet, or the housing test yet... they are next.

[TexasStroker]

I was taking a dyno vid today and the shop I was at had a new 440Source housing.  It was par with OE cast housings.  I brought it up and they pulled it out of the box, brand new, and it looked fine...the openings were quite large. 

They had one or two housings in the past as described with the small feed holes and sharp 90 degree turn...The unit fresh out of the box was NOT one of the housings causing so much trouble.

To the best of my knowledge he purchased this housing a few months ago, I'm guessing June but could be wrong.

Figured it was good to throw that out there.  Idk if there are two core boxes out there, or there was a catastrophic collapse in a core box, or what, but the unit I saw today looked fine.  And by no means am I defending the units that are defective...There are some good housings based on what I saw today.  I don't know it his was from a fresh shipment, back stock that was cast better, or if he just got lucky but I did see it 

As mentioned I had wanted to pick one up and was only concered about the water neck holes until I saw this thread...Hopefully some calls to 440source will help explain the differences etc.  If it has been corrected now, there is no need to worry for future orders.  Hopefully they'll work toward resolving the issue.

I would hope something would be done, every little bit helps, for those who have one of the bad castings, but who knows. 

I'll still consider buying one if I find the issue has been resolved...

[Steve P.]

Correcting the molds is not a big issue. Quality control IS..... If these parts were going into a TOYOTA the company producing the parts would be out of business.

The T-stat housing bolt holes was supposed to be corrected more than a year ago before I bought mine. I have the issue. It's NOT a big deal, but it just should NOT be happening.  Going back a few years to when we had many foundries here in the states, these would be melted back down and never would make it to the buyer. Meaning 440 Source would NEVER even know they screwed up. They just would never have been sent to them in the first place. Now we want everything fast and cheap. We have become a throw away World and quality control COSTS TOO MUCH. So we eat crap and ask for more. This is what I feel is the biggest problem in the World today. Burn it, bury it, toss it away. That instead of building things to last a lifetime as we use to do. The days of HAND-ME-DOWN is long gone in 99% of everything we buy today.

Sorry for the rant. I just can't seem to find anything built with quality and longevity in mind anymore.

[Ghoste]

You're aboslutely right though Steve and sadly as we send all of these jobs to China and put more and more people out of work or into lower paying jobs what started as a selfish urge to save a couple of bucks now becomes necessary and keeps the problem perpetuating.
I'll have to get mine down off the shelf and see if it's useable or one of the junk ones.

[firefighter3931]

I was taking a dyno vid today and the shop I was at had a new 440Source housing.  It was par with OE cast housings.  I brought it up and they pulled it out of the box, brand new, and it looked fine...the openings were quite large. 

They had one or two housings in the past as described with the small feed holes and sharp 90 degree turn...The unit fresh out of the box was NOT one of the housings causing so much trouble.

That's very interesting. I wonder if they recognized the problem and sourced them from another supplier ? That seems to be the way this company operates. 

I had mine out on the highway for a 60 minute run and maintained 3200rpm for the entire time....coolant temp was 180* with a 180* thermostat.  It's running a little warmer at idle (195-200*) than i'd like so i'm gonna try a few things to see if i can drop it down 10-15* or so then it'll be perfect. I suspect the rad is slightly small in cooling capacity for a 540hp 440. The more i read up on this stuff...the more i'm convinced that a cross flow rad is the better choice with a high HP application. Mine is a downflow reproduction dual core aluminum unit...fwiw

I can tell that this rad will be inadequate for my 572 so i'll be rad shopping again this winter...



Ron

[Belgium R/T -68]

Is that why a Be cool costs moore then 500$?

Per

[TexasStroker]

Couldn't tell you, lol.  If anyone figures it out and gets word from 440source that their housing is fixed or the issue has been resolved, maybe the next round of folks can keep us posted on their cooling issues.

This one won't be good for real world tech advice since it will be on a drag car that sees NO street miles.

I know a guy in the club had some off brand aluminum housing (not 440source) and he had hell with it...Not sure on the specific brand though.

[Blown70]

Is that why a Be cool costs moore then 500$?

Per

You should price a ron davis,    Ask me how I know?

[my73charger]

I was taking a dyno vid today and the shop I was at had a new 440Source housing.  It was par with OE cast housings.  I brought it up and they pulled it out of the box, brand new, and it looked fine...the openings were quite large.  

They had one or two housings in the past as described with the small feed holes and sharp 90 degree turn...The unit fresh out of the box was NOT one of the housings causing so much trouble.

That's very interesting. I wonder if they recognized the problem and sourced them from another supplier ? That seems to be the way this company operates.  

I had mine out on the highway for a 60 minute run and maintained 3200rpm for the entire time....coolant temp was 180* with a 180* thermostat.   It's running a little warmer at idle (195-200*) than i'd like so i'm gonna try a few things to see if i can drop it down 10-15* or so then it'll be perfect. I suspect the rad is slightly small in cooling capacity for a 540hp 440. The more i read up on this stuff...the more i'm convinced that a cross flow rad is the better choice with a high HP application. Mine is a downflow reproduction dual core aluminum unit...fwiw

I can tell that this rad will be inadequate for my 572 so i'll be rad shopping again this winter...



Ron

Hi Ron and Everyone,

I have a cross flow aluminum radiator now and I tried to observe how fast the water flowed and am not to sure about what I saw.  I had to drain off some coolant just to see anything and then I am not sure about how fast it is flowing.  Keep in mind I have a stock housing so the 440Source issue is not my concern, although I have been thinking about buying an aluminum housing.  My 440 has just always run hot.  I currently have both an electric fan and a stock one and I run them both just to keep it below 200 *.  I have tried every thermostat known to man to, 165, 185, 195, now I have a restrictor ring in there.  If I am stuck in traffic it will get up over 210 consistently.  I am looking real hard at getting a Ford Taurus high output electric fan (3800+ cfm) as I have read good things about them and the price is cheap in comparison to the crazy cost of some of the aftermarket fans.  Anyone else running one of these?

[TexasStroker]

A lot of folks seem fond of the HHR fan...Maybe that would help you out.

[my73charger]

A lot of folks seem fond of the HHR fan...Maybe that would help you out.

Which one is that?  Do you have a link?

Thanks.

Tim

[lisiecki1]

I was taking a dyno vid today and the shop I was at had a new 440Source housing.  It was par with OE cast housings.  I brought it up and they pulled it out of the box, brand new, and it looked fine...the openings were quite large.  

They had one or two housings in the past as described with the small feed holes and sharp 90 degree turn...The unit fresh out of the box was NOT one of the housings causing so much trouble.

That's very interesting. I wonder if they recognized the problem and sourced them from another supplier ? That seems to be the way this company operates.  

I had mine out on the highway for a 60 minute run and maintained 3200rpm for the entire time....coolant temp was 180* with a 180* thermostat.   It's running a little warmer at idle (195-200*) than i'd like so i'm gonna try a few things to see if i can drop it down 10-15* or so then it'll be perfect. I suspect the rad is slightly small in cooling capacity for a 540hp 440. The more i read up on this stuff...the more i'm convinced that a cross flow rad is the better choice with a high HP application. Mine is a downflow reproduction dual core aluminum unit...fwiw

I can tell that this rad will be inadequate for my 572 so i'll be rad shopping again this winter...



Ron

Hi Ron and Everyone,

I have a cross flow aluminum radiator now and I tried to observe how fast the water flowed and am not to sure about what I saw.  I had to drain off some coolant just to see anything and then I am not sure about how fast it is flowing.  Keep in mind I have a stock housing so the 440Source issue is not my concern, although I have been thinking about buying an aluminum housing.  My 440 has just always run hot.  I currently have both an electric fan and a stock one and I run them both just to keep it below 200 *.  I have tried every thermostat known to man to, 165, 185, 195, now I have a restrictor ring in there.  If I am stuck in traffic it will get up over 210 consistently.  I am looking real hard at getting a Ford Taurus high output electric fan (3800+ cfm) as I have read good things about them and the price is cheap in comparison to the crazy cost of some of the aftermarket fans.  Anyone else running one of these?

that fan is a MAJOR air mover....it has a low and high setting also (two sets of wires)  a friend of mine runs one on his 240 race car, i think it would cool my house!