Rod and APR bolts question

[cudaken]

 While I was speaking with Dennis at Reed Cams he told me what caused the 440 to go bad. Well makes more sense to me than D&D for getting to tighting down a rod bolt.

First, one of the reason he said he does not like stock Mopar rods are they where made sloppy. Where the rod and cap butts up is normal not perfectly flat and can have a small angel to them. That was what J&J told me the one that went bad was that way, but would be OK. Hum?

Then, Dennis said that the chamfer on the rod for the bolt is not all wise same. With me using APR's (to be safe yet) rod bolts and there bigger shoulders they can catch just a little. This will cause the bolt go in at a little bit of a slant. Will torque down just fine, but after the engine has been ran bolt will start backing off. Hences my number being finguer tight! Like I said, makes more sense to me than D&D for getting to torquing one down.

Now the worrie time again. If I save the POS 440 do I need to worry about the other rods? I used a impact when yanking the other rod bolts. One I found lose was because I did not get the socket on the first stab.

Couple of options.

1 Pull the APR bolts and use MP HP Bolts, that is what I normaly ran and never had problems.

2 Either have the rods clearnces for bolts open up a little, or have a little taken off the bolts.

Either way bolts have to come out, do I need to have the bottom of the rod redone? That is the part I have no clue on. I know when I went to main studs in the block, I had to have it a line bored for the crank. Does this hold ture with rods?

                Cuda Ken

PS, just might, maybe give a nother stab at a blower engine. I will be selling the Charger if I do it. Have a offer and buyer is trying to get the loan next week. 68 Runner would be a better car for this anyway.

[Runner]

ken, if you changed bolts to arp the rods should have been resized so the big end is round with the added torque on the bolts.   when the rods are resized they grind the mating area of both the cap and the rod down a tad. if that step is done right it should make the mating surface flat again even if ma mopar screwed it up. then the bolts are pressed in to the rod, cap installed and bolts torqued to spec, then loosed up and retightened 3 times with molly lub on the threads as per arp. then the big end gets honed back out to the correct size with the rod bolts torqued down.   i watch mine get done and have watched several sets get done.   the machinest doing the work should look and make sure the bolt is pressed all the way in and not hanging up on the champfer.   this was not an issue with my rods what so ever. however i know that it can be amc rods.     you can also oer rpm the motor and stetch the bolt and have the nut come loose ( however im sure you didnt).     in any event, the machinest should check for this.

    if you change back to the mopar bolts then you will need to resize the rods again (or at least you should). im not positive but i think the mp bolts are just factory replacment bolts.

  if the arps are installed correctly then im sure they are the best bolt for the job.

    now i wonder, do all machinest take the time to set up and press the bolts in or, do some just tap them in the a hammer and call them good ?                 

[cudaken]

 MP Bolts I have used where a better than stock grade, well that is what the old DC book said.

If I just have the APR's pulled and reinstalled do they need to be resized?

                                                  Cuda Ken

[Runner]

 inmho yes they should be resized.   dont believe everything you read in the mopar book.  it has alot of good info but also alot of contradictory statments. and the info is olddddddd. there is alot of salesman ship in the "bible".  i would make sure the arps are seated down right and run them.

[firefighter3931]

inmho yes they should be resized.     dont believe everything you read in the mopar book.   it has alot of good info but also alot of contradictory statments. and the info is olddddddd. there is alot of salesman ship in the "bible".   i would make sure the arps are seated down right and run them.

If they weren't resized that was a colossal error on the part of the machine shop.   For years guys ran LY's with heavy TRW pistons and they survived. It's all in the quality of the prep and machinework....it allways is.

Ron

[tecmopar]

I agree with FF3931, I have been using LY rods for many years and when preped right with good bolts I haven't had any problems, good luck.

[cudaken]

 Ron, I think you missed my question. Yes Rods had be resized, in fact number 4 is still in round. That is the one that came lose.

Question is if, I have the bolts pulled and then reinstall the same bolts will the big end need to be redone a again?

                                    Cuda Ken

[firefighter3931]

Well, all fastners will stretch under tension.....that is why ARP and others recomend that the bolts be cycled a few times before being torqued down for good. A lot of machine shops don't bother with this procedure because it is time consuming and the goal is usually to get things done as fast as possible. The proper way to cycle the bolts is with a stretch guage that will actually measure the amount of bolt stretch that the fastner is experiencing. Too much stretch means the bolt is prone to failure.

As for the big end sizing, it should be checked as a minumum. With a rod bolt having come loose it's a very good possibility the big end is out of round.

Ron

[John_Kunkel]

A conscientious shop will assure that all rod mating surfaces are square to prevent side loading the rod bolt head.

[cudaken]

Ron, I think you missed my question. Yes Rods had be resized, in fact number 4 is still in round. That is the one that came lose.

Question is if, I have the bolts pulled and then reinstall the same bolts will the big end need to be redone a again?

                                                     Cuda Ken

Hello, is there anyone reading before they post?

Question is if, I have the bolts pulled and then reinstall the same bolts will the big end need to be redone a again?

I get the part about torquing them down 3 time's. But agin to be safe.

Question is if, I have the bolts pulled and then reinstall the same bolts will the big end need to be redone a again?

Troy, you are right! Know one reads, it's the internet

Sorry guys

                                      Cuda Ken

[cudaken]

 Hee, Hee, Hee, can hardly waite for Monday or Tuesday, unlimted long distant calling to US and Cananda! You suckers will be sorry you sent me your numbers

                        Cuda Ken

[firefighter3931]

Ron, I think you missed my question. Yes Rods had be resized, in fact number 4 is still in round. That is the one that came lose.

Question is if, I have the bolts pulled and then reinstall the same bolts will the big end need to be redone a again?

                                                     Cuda Ken

Hello, is there anyone reading before they post?

Ken, go back and read the last sentence in my response :

"As for the big end sizing, it should be checked as a minumum. With a rod bolt having come loose it's a very good possibility the big end is out of round."


Ken ole buddy.....you're not reading either !  

Ron


Ps. I did not edit that post....it was allways there.  

[cudaken]

 I think you are fibbing

Heck, I only had 2 Cam 2's. Troy you may still maybe right. Check his post logs, still think he fibbing

                                   Ken

[Chryco Psycho]

I have always been told to resize when changing bolts , can you get away with it probably ... want to risk it again ?

[doechsle]

 You must always resize the rods when the bolys have been removed. The bolt is what centers the cap back on to it. I was referring to the heavy radius on the underside of the ARP bolt not clearing the champher on the bolt hole on the rod.If the cahmpher does not clear the underhead bolt radius, the bolt shoulder will not touch the rod. It will torque fine but under loads the bolt will wear into the rod champher and start to loose its stretch. I always torqued the rod bolts 3 times before the final resizing, that way I did not have to worry if my customer would do it himself.I have also had to re machine the rod nit flange on some rods due to ARP now having a full round mating area on the rod nut,sometimes it would ride up into the radius area where the webbing is on the cap.The earlier rod nuts you cound put on either way and had more radius on the edges so they would clear the cap .

[cudaken]

 OK Dennis, if that is what happened and I am sure it is. What is the FIX?


                                           Ken

[doechsle]

 remove the bolts & champher the bolt hole so it will clear the underside radius of the ARP bolt. the rods will have to be redone again also due to the bolt removal.

[cudaken]

 Thanks Dennis, now that I can understand.

                                       Ken