What do you all think?

[Hot_Rodder]

As it says, helping a friend who's got a 440 going into his car. It's a fairly stock 440, about the same year as mine (mid 70's block), probably has the 452 heads. He's wanting to do simple bolt on stuff for it, and has asked me for my opinion, since he's not wanting to do any dramatic, just make a nice reliable motor out of it, and maybe get it closer to the 440 Magnum type set up... Just not exact... Here's what I'm thinking of telling him:
Run the Lunati VooDoo cam #60302  with matching springs, lifters, locks, and retainers
Double roller timing chain
Headers with 2.5" exhaust system
Keep the 750 carb he has, modify it a little though (clear sight plugs and nitrophyl floats instead of the brass)
He wants to reuse the factory cast iron intake (4 bbl, favors the one that was on my '69 R/T)
New valley tray pan with blocked heat crossover
Use a 1" phenolic spacer
Keep the mechanical fuel pump (supposedly still works)
Pretty much, nothing special about the motor obviously, have ran the thought across to him about running an aluminum high volume water pump to help keep it cooled down during the hot summers about here, and run a 180*F thermostat in it, perhaps even an aluminum water neck. I'm leaving the whole aluminum radiator thing up to him. Factory bottom end, supposedly it runs fine, he just wants to make it a little better. I figured the cam is a little better than stock, and the headers will help flow the exhaust out. The 750 shouldn't be a bad thing, should feed it just fine. Ignition will be an electronic conversion, I told him to run the Chrome box, should be fine. So, what do you all think?

[frederick]

Only things I would change:
-Factory cast iron intake => edelbrock CH4B or performer RPM
-Port the heads using the mopar performance templates.

and check compression

[c00nhunterjoe]

edlebrock performer or performer rpm based on his cam, scrap the mopar ignition, go with an msd box, improved low end performance and overall fuel mileage on my car over the mopar box. the phenolic spacer is great, i'd reccomend a 1/2 inch spacer since you are running a small cam and make sure it is not an open plenum spacer, it must have the 4 holes otherwise you will defeat the purpose of the dual plane intake

[Hot_Rodder]

To my knowledge, he's already got the phenolic spacer, supposedly he's got one sitting around in his garage that he wants to use, it is a 1" 4 hole design. As for the ign, he's not wanting to spend a lot of money, and already has an electronic dist that he came across recently, all he would need to get is the chrome box.... To go the MSD route, he'd have to spend an extra easy $500 that would be pretty much the dist and control box.... I'll mention it to him and see what he says, but knowing him.... I'll let him know about the Mopar Templates. I'll mention going to an aluminum intake also, will try and talk him into the Eddy Perf RPM. I think the RPM band is closer to the cam's listed rpm range than the Perf is.

[Purple440]

Hey Hot_Rodder, here's my experience on a similar motor ('78 new yorker 440) that I rebuilt .30 over, bigger cam (480/230@.050):

1. With 452's unported, I'm finding that the smaller the carb's CFM the better.  I have an Eddy 800AVS and the more I tighten down the secondaries, the faster and more responsive it runs.  I used to have bog points all over the RPM range, now it's really strong and I can light the tires no problem.
2. The RPM intake is working great, love it, but there are clearance issues and linkage issues to deal with.  I'm sure this would work just as well: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-5153525/?image=large without any of the problems the RPM brings.
3. Replaced the valley pan with the one that has the heat crossover blocked AND used gaskets instead of just the liquid stuff...finally seals.
4. Be careful of the compression ratio with those heads.  I have detonation problems and have to retard my timing and use higher octane.

I should also say that the Voodoo cam you listed will probably mitigate some of the problems I'm having with carb tuning and bog points so I guess take this with a grain of salt.

g/l  

- Doug

[Hot_Rodder]

I had actually looked at the intake, ran it by my buddy, up to him what he does though. As for the linkages, like myself, he's planning on running new cables including a cable type kick down linkage. When I build my 505, I'm planning on using an adjustable cable mount, course I'll also be running the Indy dual plane intake..... Assuming that his heads are indeed the 452 heads, the "listed" combustion chamber volume is 81.5cc's, god only knows for sure what these particular heads really are....
I'm comparing some of this build to the 440 that was in my '69 I used to have. Course they want be the same... That 440 had the 509 cam, Street Dom intake, electronic ign conv with orange box, Moroso Blue Max wires, Billet Steel gears double roller timing chain, 750 cfm Speed Demon carb vacuum secondaries with electric choke, 1" aluminum 4 hole carb spaced, and a little bit more. Can't remember what heads were on there, but it would roast the tires. The guy who got the car from me, did some more stuff to it, ended up wiping at least one of the cam lobes, and went to one that was a size down from it. After that I don't care to speak of the events afterwards...

I'm thinking this 750 he has will probably do fine, may have to change the jets and what not a few times to get it right, but heck, as long as it makes him happy, lol. Planning on doing the same about blocking the heat crossover, will be using gaskets along with gasket sealer, just to help it out some. On that '69 I had, it wouldn't run on regular, mid grade it would be quite unhappy with ya, and premium it would run fine. Would loved to have ran some race gas in it just to see how it liked that..... Didn't get a chance to though. I'm hoping that that particular cam will help things out, it will help pick up lost performance, hopefully create some nice vacuum (power brake car), and then some. Also, it's under a .500" lift cam, and an apparent nice duration, nothing real big, I think it's going to be a nice street cam, wonder what it'll sound like.... LOL.  . Thanks for the info Purple440.

[TylerCharger69]

The chrome ECU  is for up to 8000 RPM....Judging from your list of upgrades, that might not be the best box to use.  I'd get one equivalent to the "Orange" box, but not THE orange box.  Those things, to me, are unreliable.

[Hot_Rodder]

The chrome ECU  is for up to 8000 RPM....Judging from your list of upgrades, that might not be the best box to use.  I'd get one equivalent to the "Orange" box, but not THE orange box.  Those things, to me, are unreliable.

That's why I didn't list the orange box, even since they changed production location to overseas, they just have not been the same, and have started being avoided due to reliability issues.... If I tell him to run something other than the chrome box, don't know what to tell him, he's trying to use plug and play type stuff with the factory harness, the chrome box (though more of a race unit) will plug right into the harness. I was also thinking that if he decides later on that he's tired of that particular build and wants to change it around some, then perhaps the chrome box would work out in his favor. Anyway, I'm not sure he will want to splice anything in, but as I've said before, I can run it by him, I just don't think he wants to cut up his wiring harness to splice in a new ignition set up, and he wants to stay away from the points.
A guy who tried to by my Charger recently, offered to sell me a dual point distributor, but since I'll be going MSD all the way, I declined. Would be nice to have one... sitting around collecting dust... I guess.....
I ran that intake by him, he is considering it, but seems to be trying to find a used one in nice condition (doesn't seem worried about the looks of it) instead of getting a new one.... Can't say that I blame him though, I'd love to try and find a nice used Indy dual plane intake ported to max wedge ports for my cylinder heads for my 505 Stroker. I don't suppose that you all might know of one by any chance? I was quoted a nice price by Indy for one, they quoted all prices from stock, to ported, to ported to max wedge size ports.... Kind of scary price with the max wedge ports....

Anyways, thanks to all that have responded so far, and please, keep 'em coming.

[Hot_Rodder]

As an update, he finally got a break to get back with me, he wants to use the chrome box instead of cutting up his harness to splice in a different style ECU. Anyway, he said if I can find a cheap enough intake, he'd get it. So I've been looking on e-bay (of all places) and have come across two Eddy CH4B intakes. The first one had the bolt holes elongated for shaved heads and each port had been drilled and tapped (I'm assuming for nitrous use) and plugged, the second one that I had found had a repaired crack at the top of it. This is all that I've found with a square bore flange, have come across a couple spread bore intakes, and single plane intakes, but I'm trying to locate something affordable that he'd go for, aluminum, dual plane, square bore flange. Anyone know of anything, or might have something sitting around? I'm thinking about selling some of my stuff, but my only single 4bbl intake that I have is pretty much the same thing he already has on his 440.... I have an Eddy TM6, but it's single plane low deck block intake... My dual 4bbl intake is for also for low deck block motor, but I'm thinking I might hang onto this one just for what it is.... Anyway, any help?