Please help me find more sources for forged piston suppliers (383)

[bull]

Federal Mogul Speed Pro is about the only one out there I can find that makes forged pistons for 383s in large enough quantities to charge poor-man prices. A .030 over or .060 over set through Summit is around $400. I need a .040 over set of forged pistons and it seems Speed Pro is the only supplier that lists a part number for them. Unfortunately they don't actually make them.They say they are going to but they've been saying "production will start in about a month" for 3-4 months now so I'm stuck with either Ross custom or Diamond custom for $400-$500 more. So who else makes forged pistons? I've checked with Keith Black and they don't make .040 over in a forged. I just basically need a list or a link to a list of suppliers I can call to ask for a .040 over forged 383 product.

[Nacho-RT74]

[RD]

just throwing this out there because (1) i am not a machinist and (2) i dont know if its possible or not...

BUT...

since the bore of a 383 is 4.25 and a 426 hemi is 4.25.. is it not possible to use a hemi piston and have a machine shop mill the piston and put in valve reliefs?  (1) is it financially feasible and (2) will it work?

the answers of which i have no idea, but it did just pop into my head right now. sorry bull, just trying to think outside the box for you.

[bull]

just throwing this out there because (1) i am not a machinist and (2) i dont know if its possible or not...

BUT...

since the bore of a 383 is 4.25 and a 426 hemi is 4.25.. is it not possible to use a hemi piston and have a machine shop mill the piston and put in valve reliefs?  (1) is it financially feasible and (2) will it work?

the answers of which i have no idea, but it did just pop into my head right now. sorry bull, just trying to think outside the box for you.

Well, sort of I guess. The .040 over is actually a 4.29 so I'd still need a .040 over for a 426. And I've yet to see a Hemi piston without a dome top on it and I need flat top. I actually did consider buying a set of .060 over pistons and having them machined down to .040 but then the ring grooves would need to be cut deeper for the .040 over ring set.

[Daytona R/T SE]

I don't have a clue if these guys will have any...just throwing it out there 



http://www.egge.com/

[Blown70]

   Punch the block out to .60 over, done...... anything else?

[RD]

just throwing this out there because (1) i am not a machinist and (2) i dont know if its possible or not...

BUT...

since the bore of a 383 is 4.25 and a 426 hemi is 4.25.. is it not possible to use a hemi piston and have a machine shop mill the piston and put in valve reliefs?  (1) is it financially feasible and (2) will it work?

the answers of which i have no idea, but it did just pop into my head right now. sorry bull, just trying to think outside the box for you.

Well, sort of I guess. The .040 over is actually a 4.29 so I'd still need a .040 over for a 426. And I've yet to see a Hemi piston without a dome top on it and I need flat top. I actually did consider buying a set of .060 over pistons and having them machined down to .040 but then the ring grooves would need to be cut deeper for the .040 over ring set.

we are talking the same but at the same time we are not.  i am not talking about machining the circumference, but rather the top of the piston itself.  remove the dome, put in valve reliefs and call it good.  that way you can get a set of .040 over pistons and not worry about the oil and compression ring groove issue.

[bull]

  Punch the block out to .60 over, done...... anything else?

Oh, I never thought of that.

[Blown70]

  Punch the block out to .60 over, done...... anything else?

Oh, I never thought of that.

Ok, well at least at my machine shop that would be a cheaper option than all the others you got going on....... and from the sounds of  it you dont have many options, EH?   

[bull]

  Punch the block out to .60 over, done...... anything else?

Oh, I never thought of that.

Ok, well at least at my machine shop that would be a cheaper option than all the others you got going on....... and from the sounds of  it you dont have many options, EH?   

Yea, but going to the final bore just seems like chugging your two-gallon jug of water two hours after getting lost in the desert or going all-in the minute you're dealt a full house.

Anyway, my machine shop quoted me $2,600 which includes a $400 allowance for pistons so even with Diamond I'm still going to be at or near $3k which isn't too bad. And last night I found a couple guys on Moparts who deal with Diamond so I might get them cheaper than I thought. I just don't think it's a good idea to go from .030 over to .060 over unless I absolutely have to.

[Blown70]

Bull, dont go to the desert..... I understand, but, again did not know too if this is a numbers matching?  Then I see your point.....did not see that in your post.

I was just thinking of options.... and cost....

Let us know how that works out.

Tom

[Nacho-RT74]

mmm, modified Hemi pistons... mmm... are Hemi pistons expensive ? then machine them will add cost, mmm

ok, after think on that, I would preffer get custom made pistons by Ross or any maker.

but for a cheaper build ( and why not quality too ) KB400 ( or KB162 )... if stock rebuild, stock were cast, right ? so whats the problem with them ?

just an amateur opinion.

the question is, WHICH PISTON is the closer to stock 383 4bbl specs ? ( I was asking that in another thread )

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60207.0.html

[bull]

mmm, modified Hemi pistons... mmm... are Hemi pistons expensive ? then machine them will add cost, mmm

ok, after think on that, I would preffer get custom made pistons by Ross or any maker.

but for a cheaper build ( and why not quality too ) KB400 ( or KB162 )... if stock rebuild, stock were cast, right ? so whats the problem with them ?

just an amateur opinion.

the question is, WHICH PISTON is the closer to stock 383 4bbl specs ? ( I was asking that in another thread )

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60207.0.html

If you're going .060 over I'd go with the Speed Pro forged because they're good and very reasonably priced. That's what I would buy if they made a .040 over. They're made in USA, Canada and/or Mexico.

Diamond or Ross are also going to stock a .060 over but they're going to be roughly $300 more than Speed Pro. They're all made in the USA.

The reason I won't go with KB or some of these other places is because they are cast pistons and forged is better. And I don't know that anything is going to be very similar to original these days. Weren't the original pistons made of steel? I believe everything now is made of aluminum.

[bull]

Bull, dont go to the desert..... I understand, but, again did not know too if this is a numbers matching?  Then I see your point.....did not see that in your post.

I was just thinking of options.... and cost....

Let us know how that works out.

Tom

Yea, sorry, I should have made it more clear that this is the original block. For a while I was considering using another block but I decided I don't want to store the original at my house for (potentially) the rest of my life.

[RD]

the KB's are actually hypereutectic meaning:

An alloy whose chemical composition is above that of the eutectic. In hypereutectic Al-Si (aluminum and silicon) alloys, the first phase to form on solidification is primary Si. Phosphorus-based additives are often used to refine it.

OR... Hypereutectic aluminium–silicon alloys offer the possibility of an in situ natural composite (the silicon acting as the reinforcing phase) with properties that make them attractive for a number of automotive applications.

so, though they are "cast" pistons, they are a helluva lot tougher than regular OE cast pistons you will find in blocks of yesteryear.  I have a set of KB240 pistons in a 400 that i built back in 2003.  after 6 years of rough abuse, the ol' 400 still has power.  dont count them out as an option.. they are cheaper, better than stock pistons of which I have had personal and maintenance free experience with.

and, for arguments sake, if OE cast pistons pushed hemi's, wedges, and 340's to HP hall of fame status, dont you think a tougher cast piston deserves a little credit?

[alcusswhen]

Truth is KB hypereutectic pistons are better than forged pistons for street cars. They don't weigh as much as forged and the coated skirts don't scuff the cylinder walls, and there espantion rate is the same as forged so you can run them just as close as forged.

[Troy]

Would you really need forged pistons in a 383 2-bbl? Without heads (or lots of head work), a 4-bbl intake, a big(ger cam), and higher compression I can't see even approaching the limits of the stock cast piston. Of course, I'm not a mechanic but there's a lot of room to improve with those engines.

Troy

[Runner]

biggest problem with getting decent 383 psitons is the compresion height.  most of them put the pistons way down in the hole.  if your really biulding a 383 2 barrel stockish 383 then i would run the kb hyper pistons.   much cheaper than a forged, plenty stong enough for your biuld, they come with a decent compression height and generious valve notches ( thos forged trw slugs dont have any valve notches for a 383).    if you choose to step up to a diamond piston, youll definatly have a good piston in your motor.       a guy i know once said "make sure you dont biuld a 5000 dollar motor that runs like a 2500 dollar motor"   he was refuring to the over kill of parts that sometimes gets pushed on people when they dont need them,  truth be told, if your biulding a 383 2 barrel motor, a cheapo cast piston is just fine with the exception of you cant get a decent compresion height in a cast piston anymore.... at least not that i could find on my last 383 biuld. 

[bull]

Let's just say I'm strictly following Firefighter Ron's rebuild formula, which is adamantly opposed to hypereutectic and cast pistons.

[firefighter3931]

Well, i'll start off by saying that Hyper pistons are not an option that i'd be thrilled with. The KB's top ringland failure is well documented....some of those failures are tuning related (detonation/too much cylinder pressure) etc...and others are assembly error (incorrect top ring gap)

That being said, they are not very forgiving and great care must be taken in both assembly and subsequent tuning of the engine. In contrast, a forged slug is brutally tough and near indestructible. Should you run lean or detonate those pistons will just laugh it off...

If this was my engine, the only option is a Forged piston, period. Everyone has their opinion and that is mine. Sorry if that ruffles some feathers. 


Ron

[bull]

Come to think of it I am ignoring one piece of Ron's advice. I'm going with the stock 906 heads rather than 452s.

[Runner]

Well, i'll start off by saying that Hyper pistons are not an option that i'd be thrilled with. The KB's top ringland failure is well documented....some of those failures are tuning related (detonation/too much cylinder pressure) etc...and others are assembly error (incorrect top ring gap)

That being said, they are not very forgiving and great care must be taken in both assembly and subsequent tuning of the engine. In contrast, a forged slug is brutally tough and near indestructible. Should you run lean or detonate those pistons will just laugh it off...

If this was my engine, the only option is a Forged piston, period. Everyone has their opinion and that is mine. Sorry if that ruffles some feathers.  


 

Ron

to each there own.   not ruffling my feathers in the least.  its not my motor.  good luck on your biuld bull.

[RD]

options are options, and i agree with ron in regards to the forged being the better piece, but for what its worth, the 400 i have the KB's in was my very first engine build by myself and i have had no issues with the pistons or the engine for that matter.  many pulls down the track (though not the quickest ) but she is reliable.

in the hands of a skilled (and sometimes not so skilled but follows the book verbatim) engine builder, there should be no more worries with these pistons as any others.

[frederick]

Venolia also have pistons for a 383:
http://www.venolia.com/pistons.html

Probably $$$ though.

[bull]

Well, well. Funny stuff happens when someone actually grabs the micrometer and does some checking. I was talking with the builder earlier in the week and we discussed the engine in detail whereupon we decided a practical approach to things would be smarter. Basically that line of thought involved more facts and fewer assumptions which appears to have paid off. Turns out the old 383 was bored to something less than 4.28 so it looks we can now bore it to exactly .030 over and go with the more economical Speed Pro forged 30s rather than hunting down a set of custom-made .040 over pistons. Like the saying goes, when you assume it makes an ass out of u and me.

[RD]

Well, well. Funny stuff happens when someone actually grabs the micrometer and does some checking. I was talking with the builder earlier in the week and we discussed the engine in detail whereupon we decided a practical approach to things would be smarter. Basically that line of thought involved more facts and fewer assumptions which appears to have paid off. Turns out the old 383 was bored to something less than 4.28 so it looks we can now bore it to exactly .030 over and go with the more economical Speed Pro forged 30s rather than hunting down a set of custom-made .040 over pistons. Like the saying goes, when you assume it makes an ass out of u and me.

well, maybe just you this time

glad it worked out for you.

[bear]

Just so you know if you plan on getting the speed pro .30 over pistons from Summit they don't have them in stock and they wont be made until the fall. But when I got my engine rebuild kit from them they gave me the option of either the KB hyper or Ross forged ones. I took the KB ones and they didn't charge me the difference for the upgrade so they may do the same with the Ross ones too

[bull]

Hmm. I thought the .030 over Speed Pro sets were plentiful. At any rate, my engine builder told me he has access to a set of new forged 30 over pistons and I don't know the brand for sure yet but I think he said they were Speed Pros. Whatever they are he said a local vendor had them in stock. Now I have to pray that the blueprinting specs will allow their high-tech machine to clean the cylinders up nicely at 4.28.

[alcusswhen]

  Punch the block out to .60 over, done...... anything else?

Oh, I never thought of that.

Ok, well at least at my machine shop that would be a cheaper option than all the others you got going on....... and from the sounds of  it you dont have many options, EH?   

Yea, but going to the final bore just seems like chugging your two-gallon jug of water two hours after getting lost in the desert or going all-in the minute you're dealt a full house.

Anyway, my machine shop quoted me $2,600 which includes a $400 allowance for pistons so even with Diamond I'm still going to be at or near $3k which isn't too bad. And last night I found a couple guys on Moparts who deal with Diamond so I might get them cheaper than I thought. I just don't think it's a good idea to go from .030 over to .060 over unless I absolutely have to.

The 426 max wedge has the same bore as a hime and you wouldn't have to cut off anything. You can also look at 413 wedge pistons.