Building a 505 Stroker

[HDCharger]

Actually I'm not.  Bob Mendez is building it for me, not sure if he is on here or not.  He builds for Cope Racing Transmissions (CRT).  Its going in the Triple Black 73ChargerSE.  I was just going to do a crate Hemi but I didn't want the pain.  The 73 was a 400 car so should make it a little easier.  Here is what we are planning: 

440 Source

Indy EZ 295 heads
Custom ground hydralic cam from Straightline (Scott Brown) or Hughes
Crane roller lifters
4.350 bore X 4.250 stroke.
7.100 long rod with a 2.200 pin size
Indy 4150 Style Intake
Quickfuel 1050 Carb
Indy or 440 source rockers
MSD billet dist
Should be around 650-700 HP and 650 ft lbs torque.  He's going to Dyno and Tune.  Should be done by the time I get home end of Sept.
CRT is building me a trans with a billet drum
I plan on putting 275/60/15, 28" tall tire in the back
S-60 with 3.73's

Suggestions Welcome.  Would you upgrade to Comp Pro Magnum Roller Rockers or Harland Sharp?

[firefighter3931]

Hi Dave....first off, be safe over there in the sandbox ! 

The build looks good to me. I'm assuming this is a hyd roller grind.....you mention hyd cam & roller lifters 

I'm not a fan of the 440 source rockers.....you need something better. If it's a hyd roller the ICH rockers should be fine. The open spring pressure pretty much dictates the type of rocker you should use. Anything over 400lbs open should use a fully rollerized rocker arm, inmo. You could go with the Harland Sharps....that way if you decide to go solid roller in the future you won't be buying rocker arms again. 

Cam specs would help....


Ron

[HDCharger]

Ron, I think Bob is still working it out on paper.  I will post the cam specs when I get them.  Looking forward to getting home for a much needed break.  I was thinking about going ahead and getting some better rockers just in case I decide to go with a solid later.  I am going to try and get up there and watch the dyno.  Its one thing I have to look forward to when I get outa here.

[firefighter3931]

Dyno days are allways lots of fun ! 

If you're thinking a solid roller is possibly in the future....go with the Harland Sharps right now. I'm glad i did ! 

Post the cam specs once you get them. 



Ron

[HDCharger]

Ron/others.  How tall is a RB with a Indy Intake and Quick Fuel Carb gonna be?  Will it fit under a Bulge Hood?  Thanks, Dave

[firefighter3931]

Ron/others.  How tall is a RB with a Indy Intake and Quick Fuel Carb gonna be?  Will it fit under a Bulge Hood?  Thanks, Dave

Dave, the ICH 440-2/440-3 single plane manifolds are tall (6.50 in) and won't fit without a hood scoop. Your only option is the ICH dual plane (5.25in) which can be opened up to max wedge intake port. Mp also has a MW low rise single plane but they are very difficult to find....the 337 MP intake is currently on national backorder. I managed to score one last fall from Mancini. 


Ron

[Hot_Rodder]

Just to throw my little bit of in here, I'm building a somewhat similar motor, though I still don't have my cam spec's yet, I've been told (my cam will be solid roller) will be in the 255*-270* duration range @ .050, and over .600" lift with 1.5 rockers, I am going to be running the Harland Sharp roller rockers, also it will be ground on a 114* l/s. I am planning on running the Indy dual plane intake with max wedge ports, a QFT carb, ect..... Once I get it built, and in the car, I'll figure out the famous question about hood clearance with the power bulge hood (I have a '72 SE out back).

[HDCharger]

Ron/Hot_Rodder, I was just informed by Bob that the Hydralic Rollers are out of stock until Nov or Dec so it looks like I will be going with a Solid Flat Tappet or Solid Roller.  I am guess this will be more power as well?  Recommendations?  Thanks, Dave

[firefighter3931]

Comp has some nice street roller grinds that aren't too agressive on the valvetrain....I'm sure that Bob can come up with something appropriate for the application. 


Ron

[Hot_Rodder]

I'd go ahead and go with the solid roller. Be sure to get the Harland Sharps though, something like these:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CSP-S70015K/ these are the 1.5's
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CSP-S70016K/ these are the 1.6's
Both of these are based on the factory rocker arm spec's, no offset rockers, though, they are offered, I don't think that they EZ's have special offset rocker arm requirements like the -1's and such.

The guy that I'm going through to grind my cam is down in Florida, but based on what he said, he gets someone to custom grind a cam to his specs, then it gets shipped where ever he specifies.... Not sure who does the cam grinding for him though, but he said it would run roughly $300 to custom grind a solid roller cam. His prices that I've seen so far are lower than Summit's, ect....

[john108]

If I may, I would like to ask a question concerning the Harland Sharp rocker KIT referred to above.
Does it require any additional spacers or shims to line-up the rockers on the valves or pushrods??

[firefighter3931]

If I may, I would like to ask a question concerning the Harland Sharp rocker KIT referred to above.
Does it require any additional spacers or shims to line-up the rockers on the valves or pushrods??

John, the kit linked above is all-inclusive. The HS rockers use a specially hardened shaft so buy the l
kit and get everything you need. Spacers, shafts, rockers, hold downs all come with that kit. 


Ron

[dstryr]

Here are a couple of pics of the Harland Sharp 1.5 ratio rockers mounted on my stealth heads.  Hope you can see the detail. 

[firefighter3931]

Here are a couple of pics of the Harland Sharp 1.5 ratio rockers mounted on my stealth heads.  Hope you can see the detail. 

Looking good Frank ! 

You're getting close !!! 


Ron

[HDCharger]

Dad gummit I can't see the pictures.  Anyways, I am back for some advice.  Here is my deliemma:  To fit this thing under a bulge hood I'd have to go with a dual plane intake which would kind of render the EZ 295 heads ineffective.  In addition, John Cope tells me that at 650hp and torque I'd have to have a reverse manual auto.  Sounds like a PITA to drive on regularly on the street.  I guess my options are a eddy headed low deck stroker (470/500/512) with a dual plane and auto shift trans or go with the low deck or raised deck 505 with Indy EZ 295s, single plane and reverse manual trans and cut my hood.  I am guessing the power levels will be 75-100HP difference between the two motors but how much is enough for a street car?  Thoughts anyone.  Thanks, Dave

[oldschool]

Dad gummit I can't see the pictures.  Anyways, I am back for some advice.  Here is my deliemma:  To fit this thing under a bulge hood I'd have to go with a dual plane intake which would kind of render the EZ 295 heads ineffective.  In addition, John Cope tells me that at 650hp and torque I'd have to have a reverse manual auto.  Sounds like a PITA to drive on regularly on the street.  I guess my options are a eddy headed low deck stroker (470/500/512) with a dual plane and auto shift trans or go with the low deck or raised deck 505 with Indy EZ 295s, single plane and reverse manual trans and cut my hood.  I am guessing the power levels will be 75-100HP difference between the two motors but how much is enough for a street car?  Thoughts anyone.  Thanks, Dave

you can use indys dualplane with the ez heads.it would fit under your hood,no problem.i make around 700 horsepower with 295 sr,s and that dualplane.for a street car it is an awesome combo.that dualplane is way underrated.also the 295 ez heads will make alot more power than the eddys.

[HDCharger]

Oldschool, Is that on a low deck or Raised Block?  Thanks, Dave

[Hot_Rodder]

That would be a raised deck, you can see the machine pad on the driver side top in front of the valley tray....

[oldschool]

Oldschool, Is that on a low deck or Raised Block?  Thanks, Dave

yes dave it is a rb block.i have 3 500" motors. they all have indy 295 sr,s and that dualplane.it is an awesome combo for the street.it has a very flat torque curve. it makes very good low to midrange power,but still makes good top end horsepower.my cars dyno at 573 rwhp,with very good streetability.

[HDCharger]

I have dialed the motor back a bit from original plans for a couple reasons.  Mainly for streetability and I did not want to use a reverse manual transmission.  Instead of a 505, EZ headed motor, we are going with a 500" Low Deck with CNC ported 84cc Eddys.  Should be in the 575-600 Range.  I do have a question:  Is 10-1 enough compression for an aluminum head street motor?  440 Source Kit says a 4.375 Flat top with 84cc is 10.88 and a dish with 84cc is 9.29.     My builder want to use the dish and shave the head and get around 10-1.  Is this the way to go?  Just in my mind the flat top with 10.88 using aluminum pistons should be fine on 93 Pump Gas.  Thoughts?  Dave

[firefighter3931]

I have dialed the motor back a bit from original plans for a couple reasons.  Mainly for streetability and I did not want to use a reverse manual transmission.  Instead of a 505, EZ headed motor, we are going with a 500" Low Deck with CNC ported 84cc Eddys.  Should be in the 575-600 Range.  I do have a question:  Is 10-1 enough compression for an aluminum head street motor?  440 Source Kit says a 4.375 Flat top with 84cc is 10.88 and a dish with 84cc is 9.29.     My builder want to use the dish and shave the head and get around 10-1.  Is this the way to go?  Just in my mind the flat top with 10.88 using aluminum pistons should be fine on 93 Pump Gas.  Thoughts?  Dave

Dave, i punched the numbers into the comp ratio calculator and came up with 9.8:1 using the 440 souce specs listed on their website ; bore/stroke 24cc dish piston & .040 compressed head gasket. Dropping the chamber down a few cc nets over 10:1 static

I don't see a problem with 10:1 on the street....especially with a stroker. This thing will still make more torque than you can possibly hope to hook with a street tire.  


Ron

[HDCharger]

Thanks Ron, That's great news and eases some of my worries. 

PS.  I also told him NO 440 source water pump housing!

[firefighter3931]

  I also told him NO 440 source water pump housing!

Good call buddy ! 


I'm sure Bob can build something very nice and it'll run like a Beast...even at 10:1  With a CNC ported E-head it'll make well into the 600hp/600tq range...no problemo ! 



Ron

[john108]

I may have missed something, but:
What is the problem with the 440 source water pump housing??

[lisiecki1]

I may have missed something, but:
What is the problem with the 440 source water pump housing??

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60599.20.html

[HDCharger]

Tentative #'s on a Cam:    "I haven't nailed the cam specs down yet but they will be in the 235-240 @ .050 intake, 240-245 @ .050 exhaust, 110-112 lobe sep, aprox. .600 lift."  What do you guys think?

400 - 230 Block Zero Decked
440Source 500" Rotating Assembly
Pro Magnum Rockers
Hughes Eddy CNC Heads (Hey their on Sale this month)
Mopar M1 Single Plane Intake (Hoping it will clear hood with drop base)
TTI - 1 7/8 Headers
1050 Quick Fuel
PTC 9.5 Inch Converter
727-3 ProStreet Automatic Shift w/Billet Drum from CRT
Strange S-60 (3.73s)

Does Anyone have the driveshaft length required for this set up?

[firefighter3931]

The cam seems small for a 500in build, inmo. It will peak early with a 235@.050 stick and that displacement.



Ron

[Hot_Rodder]

How about something in the 250 - 270 duration range? The one that was spec'd for me is in the 255* - 270* duration range @ .050. My lift is also over .600" lift with factory ratio rockers. Though, my l/s is higher that his listed 110 - 112. Is that cam a roller cam or flat tappet? Hyd of solid? Mine is to be a solid roller. Sounds like it's going to be a nice solid build though, what kind of ignition set up are you planning on running? And what kind of #'s are you hoping for?

[HDCharger]

Thanks Guys, I will mention maybe something bigger on the cam.  I am pretty sure when he talks to Straightline (Scott Brown) he will give a good recommendation.  Also I think we decided to go with a solid roller, is this the best choice for a street driven car?  I am going with MSD Billet Distributor and a Mopar (MSD) Black 6AL Box.  I am hoping to be in the 600HP and 600ft lbs Torque Range

[Hot_Rodder]

Mine will be a street car running the Solid Roller cam. Ignition sounds just fine. I've been looking into the 6AL2 box, instead of being analog signal, it's digital and have the adjustable rev limiter on the box.... No pills,  lol. Anyway, sounds good so far.

[firefighter3931]

Many of the latest solid roller cams are street friendly. Just keep the spring pressures reasonable and it will last a long while. 



Ron

[HDCharger]

What size exhaust would you guys run on this build?   3" vs 2.5"  I'm looking at getting the complete TTI or Pypes kit.  Thanks, Dave

[firefighter3931]

What size exhaust would you guys run on this build?   3" vs 2.5"  I'm looking at getting the complete TTI or Pypes kit.  Thanks, Dave

TTI makes 2 sets of headers for the lowdeck ; 1 3/4 & 1 7/8in primary tubes....go with the 1 7/8 X 3in header and a complete 3in X-Pipe system with a Dynomax UltraFlow muffler. At the 600hp level this is the ideal exhaust system. 


Ron

[HDCharger]

Thanks Ron, I already have the 1 7/8 TTI Polished Ceramic Headers. I was thinking 3" but wanted to make sure before I paid the extra cost.  BTW I have 18 days left and I will be coming home.  Looking forward to working on the Charger.  Dave

[HDCharger]

Ron, One last question on the Ultraflows.  Would you happen to know if I need center inlet/offset outlet on those?  Thanks

[Hot_Rodder]

I would leave it like the factory did, center in offset out...

[HDCharger]

Thanks I just wanted to make sure it would match with the TTI pieces.  Dave

[Hot_Rodder]

Unless I'm mistaken, the only difference between the Super Turbos (that come with the TTI kits) and the Ultra Flows is the interior design of the mufflers their self....