doesnt the Term " SURVIVOR " mean all ORIGINAL ? CL 68 Z28 Survivor $32000.00

[rav440]

i would think SURVIVOR would mean all original unrestored and unmolested . althougth its not a bad looking Z its not original with the 427 and id say its overpriced by about $10K being it doesnt have the 302 . and where does he get the NOM 427 ? im guessibg he means numbers matching ?

survivor just gets used way to much if you ask me .

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/1299293406.html
1968 Z28 Survivor!! - $32000 (Jamestown NY)


$32,000.00
For sale 1968 Z28 Camaro Survivor!

Certified by Bob Harris owner of Camaro Specialties of East Aurora NY! Bob Harris is well known in the Camaro world as an expert of 25 years of experience in this field! Bob states in the appraisal that he is positively certain that this is a real Z28! Bob also told me that he has known this car for many years! I have Bob's phone number and Bob stated he would be happy to speak to a serious buyer!

* Original 12 bolt posi. rear end 3:73 Code BU,correct date!
* Original muncie 4 speed!
* NOM 427 67 Corvette motor casting 351 block!
* Head 1966 858 450/425 HP!
* Single Carb. aluminum intake Corvette!
* Body panels original with little or no rust!
* Paint some is original including the stripes.
* Color correct UU Lemans Blue!
* Interior Blue code 717 completely survivor quality!
* Console and gauges all in working condition!
* Original Power Disc brakes, original 4 piston calipers!
* Original tic-toc-tach!
* Glass all original!
* Runs, drives and stops!
* This car is original-Survivor not restored.
* The paint is old and in poor condition!
* Price $32,000 with out 427 motor or with the 427 $37,000 and I will remove the 427!
* If you don't have the funds to purchase the car Please don't waste my time or yours!
* I am open to offers I can live with and may even take a trade?
Thank you (716) 485-3078

[BrianShaughnessy]

Survivor is just another catchphrase anymore to some dopes.   Almost interchangeable with NOS.

To some it means a mostly unrestored, unmolested, almost like it left the factory.

To some it means...  old crappy paint.

Guess what this guy means 


  Here's a fine example of where people get by letting people believe whatever they want to believe by either saying or not saying the important parts.  This guy is actually my friend too.   This is a 73 Mach 1 /  351C / 4 speed. 
   He's had the car since it was new.   It was rear ended back in 74 and it was repaired using the back half of a copper colored car welded together in the back seat area.  I know... I saw the weld joints and the painted interior areas that were never addressed by the prior body shop. 

I helped take this car apart for the resto back in '02.   My friend Speedo repainted the car after fixing the rear quarter and the rest of the halfazz nearly 30 year old repairs.

So after its done...  [btw repainted banana yellow instead of the correct pale ford yellow per owners' request] he gets it into an article in Hemmings about factory correct Mustangs.  In the article, he says he had the car "refinished" awhile ago.  Makes it sound like all he had done was have some detailer buff the car and touch up under the hood.

Skip to this year... he gets one of the "big" trophies at the annual Sawyer show in my town for "most original car" presented to him by Congressman Hinchey.   I took the pic anyway but it's kinda funny how he tells people he's had it since it was new but fails to mention the year it was out getting restored anymore      Now I got a trophy too but it was just a top 50... whatever.   I'm not saying he shouldn't get a top 50 but that garbage about most original is a BS.   I know a few truly all original "survivor" cars that deserved that.
     

[68X426]

At a show last week there was a "survivor". It was a 1940 Ford. It was quite nicely original. It won Best of Show.

With a Chevy 350 in it. 

Survivor means nothing today.

[Todd Wilson]

Frankie is a survivor!


Todd

[moparstuart]

Frankie is a survivor!


Todd

He survived several surgery's

[69bronzeT5]

Survivor means nothing today.

So true

[Todd Wilson]

Frankie is a survivor!


Todd

He survived several surgery's

Yes he did! HAHA! He also survived a stick welder and a stop sign!


Todd

[chargergirl]

Survivor should mean original paint, motor, etc. The same POS that sold a clone as real also says he did all his own work on his show car...he has proved time and time again the only knowledge he has is key to start. He and other "knowledgeable" guys put the brakes on his next victims car and then had to come to our friend to figure out what was wrong. They were on backwards...he got upset when he was charged for the correction. I guess he expected it for free.

[b5blue]

NOM= NOT ORIGINAL MOTOR

[Mike DC]

   
The term "survivor" is meaningless nowadays.  


Some people apply it to virtually any car over 10-15 years old that hasn't been crushed into a cube yet.  

 

[Todd Wilson]

   
The term "survivor" is meaningless nowadays.  


Some people apply it to virtually any car over 10-15 years old that hasn't been crushed into a cube yet.  

 

Yup!   And Rust Free  is another term used very loosely now too!


Todd

[69_500]

If you want to get a little technical then the term "Survivor" for a Chevy is completely different than the way the Mopar crowd uses the term. If I'm not mistaken the term "Survivor" was used at bloomington Gold on their cars as long as 50% of the car was unrestored originally. Not sure what it is now, but in the Mopar end of things its more or less been accepted that its not a survivor unless over 80% of the car is original. Big difference.

[Old Moparz]

It's somewhat interesting to see "survivor" cars at shows, but in most cases it's usually some nasty colored, 4 door, with a 6 cylinder that nobody wanted to drive, so it survived. Brian makes a good point about what some people get away with by lying about their car. I guess anyone that isn't selling some bondo filled POS that's labelled something it isn't, they're doing to to make themselves feel better about their car.   

My sister's husband is like that to a certain extent. He was telling me about this Trans Am he had been seeing at a local cruise that he wanted to buy. I think it's an early 80's turbo V8. Anyway, he finally bought it, & was telling me about how original it was. The car was nice, but it was definitely not original with the dead giveaway being the overspray on some of the moldings & the new screaming chicken sticker on the hood too.

I don't get it though, I'd be more proud to show how a car was brought back from it's carnage than to claim it's all original. There are also too many people who know what they're looking at in order to fool them. To me there would be nothing more embarrassing in the car hobby than to be caught telling lies about a car to other car people. Even when I'm pretty sure about something, I always know that there will be someone else who knows more.

Out of most of my car friends, the only survivor car I'm aware of that is pretty much a "true survivor" is a 1966 Impala that was found through an estate sale. My friend John who owns it had a tough time deciding what to refinish or keep as is. It had only 22,000 miles & retained everything it came with, including the leaky 283-2V engine, the leaky trans, the dried up hoses, faded chrome, & locked up brakes. 

He decided to have the engine & trans rebuilt, the door dings touched up, & the bumpers re-chromed. The interior is immaculate & all original, & the car has probably 70 to 75% of the original paint from when it was new. I admire what it is, but if I owned it, the purists would cringe. I see a base car survivor like that as a great starting point to do what I want to it, like swap a tired small block for a big block, a rust free body that doesn't need half of the AMD catalog to get nice paint on it.

[68pplcharger]

Don't really care about survivors. These cars weren't meant to be stock. They gave you a base vehicle to start with and you ripped off the exhaust manifolds, for headers, and replaced the ignition with something that worked. Put on some good looking rims, not the factory bicycle rims. Tuned them up and drove the sh#t out of them, or just raced them. Some of the motor options that were put on these cars didn't make sense unless you were using them for competition racing. I'm pretty sure that's why a 440 6 pak car came with ugly blacked out 6 inch rims, they new these were going to the track or street to race, usually with pretty good size meat on the back. They de-tuned these cars so the average person , that didn't know any better, wouldn't kill themselves. My uncle owned a 70 440 six pak Cuda' and was so disappointed when he was beat by a small block Chevy he took it back to the dealership and had them look at the car because it ran so bad. The mechanic pulled him to the side and explained how he could tune it for him as long as he didn't say were he had it done. My uncle agreed and picked the car up 1 week later. Needless to say, he was never beat in a street race again. If I want a stock survivor I'll keep my everyday driver (Saturn) that was never meant to be fast. I'll stick with my 68 Hemi Clone Charger with aftermarket brakes, ignition, etc. that make it fly. 

[Shakey]

   
The term "survivor" is meaningless nowadays.  


Some people apply it to virtually any car over 10-15 years old that hasn't been crushed into a cube yet.  

 

Exactly - all cars that have not ended up in the crusher are survivors - period!  Even the rust heaps laying in the junkyards across the country should be considered survivors as they are still tangible!

[tan top]

nice chebby though 

[MichaelRW]

Survivor generally means unrestored. If a car has been repainted the paint has been restored and thus the car can no longer be considered a survivor. 

This very topic is raised in the "letters" section of this months Hemmings Motor News.

[Troy]

I thought the Corvette guys appropriated the term and therefore no one else could use it?

Troy

[69_500]

I thought the Corvette guys appropriated the term and therefore no one else could use it?

Troy

I think your right Troy, and I think they only require 50% of the original paint to be called a survivor as well.

[Ghoste]

Yes, but I don't think they've tried to stop anyone (I would think that it would be a pretty difficult suit to win in most cases).

[Mike DC]

    

The Corvette guys appropriated the term "survivor" so nobody else can use it

(insert video clip of Terence & Phillip slapping Brooke Shields here)