Ogranosol Black on Tail Panel

TexasStroker · July 27, 2009, 12:42:05 PM

Well after scanning the boards for what I'm looking for I came up empty, aside from the glossy pic of a General Lee's tail panel.

Anyway, I'm not as concerned with the debate around what is correct, how much texture, etc etc.

I honestly would just like to see a few pics of some finished tail panels.

I believe mine is still primarily in tact, but I have to believe it has faded from how it would have been originally.

When I was scraping the gasket adhesive from the tail light housing there was a lot of slop and some had run onto the tail panel, (found that out while scraping). It tore just a tiny area, but I'd like to black this out. The area in question will be concealed by the LH tail light, so I can probably get by with just a flat black, but I do have the opportunity while the lights are out and the bumper is off to reshoot the tail panel.

I'd like to see some shots that some of ya'll believe to be a good representation of how the tail panel should look. My main concern is just in regards to how flat or glossy the tail panel should be when shot with organosol.

Mine was definitely organosol, but as stated I think it might be faded after these 41 years and I'd like to see some shots for reference. 69 btw...I'll either to a quick 1/2"x3/4" touchup or the whole tail panel based on what I see.

TexasStroker · July 27, 2009, 12:53:06 PM

Did find this: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,6304.0.html

Where HemiGeno posted some shots of a Daytona TP...looks similar to mine, but being weathered, Idk how his would have looked when it rolled off the line either...

TexasStroker · July 27, 2009, 10:22:51 PM

Here is a shot of the tail panel as it is now...The full length shot gives a good idea of the color/gloss/fade? but not much detail on the texture:

Here is an up close shot of the texture and of course the area of concern where gasket adhesive helped to strip off the overlaying organosol:

Mike DC · July 27, 2009, 10:51:34 PM

The original finish was fully black (not gray.) It was about as flat as any black paint can get.

TexasStroker · July 28, 2009, 02:52:11 AM

So in other words your take is the UV rays and weathering have just faded the finish a little as suspected from flat black to aged flat black?

I'd like to get a fresh coat on everything, but I can just spray some flat black to cover the "revealed" spot and move on. Hard to decide with all the controversey regarding organosol. Maybe I should just get some tooth on the surface, clean it up, and shoot some flat black over the prepped surface...Has anyone gone that route? Sort of a preservation-restoration if you will.

I wish I had a fully restored car to compare things to...just so much easier in person to make the judgment call on something like this. Since it is 3AM I guess I'll sleep on it, lol. Thanks for the insight!

maxwellwedge · July 28, 2009, 11:53:25 AM

If you are going to re-do it buy the Organosol from Frank Badalson of Roger Gibson's. Have someone that knows how to PROPERLY shoot Acrylic Laquer and follow the directions on the thinners. It is the absolutely best, authentic stuff going right now. I have used it on 5 cars in the last year and it looks dead nuts to the Organosol on my survivors. The only controversy is with the woodchucks that don't know what they are doing and have nothing better to do than bitch and moan. Buy it while it is still available.

TexasStroker · July 28, 2009, 12:20:17 PM

Thanks! I'll try to track them down...

You don't happen to have a pic of any of the 5 that you've sprayed do you? I'm mainly looking for comparison in regards to how faded mine is versus fresh.

maxwellwedge · July 28, 2009, 12:59:57 PM

Here is a pic off one of my low-mile survivors - the new stuff looks basically the same. I don't have any pics on this computer I can post.

http://www.moparaction.com/Article/GTX-CELLENT/10.jpg

TexasStroker · July 28, 2009, 01:19:41 PM

Awesome! Stuff does look pretty dead on to the tail panel, minus the fading...

Lord Warlock · July 31, 2009, 10:53:57 AM

You can buy organisol in a spray can that very closely matches the factory finish. I've redone my back panel with it and it came out very stock looking in appearance, complete with the correct texture. I'll have to wait till after work to find the shortcut, and link it to the thread. The same company i order it in spray cans also markets it by the quart for use in guns.

Lord Warlock

Blown70 · July 31, 2009, 10:58:21 AM

I have a 69 that supposedly was untouched with paint over the years I could post a pic if you want but would need to crawl in the shop to do so. I say crawl casuse she is purdy backed in for now.

mopar0166 · July 31, 2009, 11:26:58 AM

So all of this being said and the other threads being read, which color should i use for my 69 ( which is a general lee now) it was built in st. louis so do I get a black textured spray paint or a satin finish? Id rather have closer to orignal becuase then i always have choice to switch back .

Lord Warlock · July 31, 2009, 08:49:46 PM

http://www.totallyautoinc.com/paints.html and its Organisol. , easier to find if you have it spelled right. You can recoat the entire rear panel with one spray can, at $25.00, its cheaper than buying a quart that will sit around forever before you use it all.

My 69 had organisol from the factory.

maxwellwedge · July 31, 2009, 10:11:54 PM

bill440rt · July 31, 2009, 10:28:33 PM

Here's a thread when I painted my '69:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,23081.0.html

If you scroll about halfway down, you'll see the tail panel. The Roger Gibson stuff IS awesome, but I did mine a little different. It still has a very factory appearance.

I sprayed black PPG DP primer, giving it 1 medium coat. Then, after letting it flash a while, I held the gun far away to dust it on. This "dry spray" technique gave it the proper texture. I just gave it 1-2 coats like this to get the proper effect. I let the primer dry for about an hour, then shot it with basic flat/satin black out of a spray can. I think I used Plasti-Kote, but SEM Trim Black is also excellent.

Troy · August 02, 2009, 12:43:41 PM

That's the original paint on your car TexasStroker?

Troy

TexasStroker · August 04, 2009, 09:45:27 AM

Quote from: Troy on August 02, 2009, 12:43:41 PM
That's the original paint on your car TexasStroker?

Troy

Original paint? No, that would have been a small miracle, lol.

Original paint on the tail panel I believe so. It looks like any repainting or body work done pretty much left the tail panel neglected (aside from getting taped off)...hence the fade.
I could be wrong, hard to know when I hadn't been there for the cars first 30ish years of travel. If anything was done to the tail panel I think it must have just been shot with a parts store black rattle can or something. I did "touch up" that area of concern and it looks pretty good...and with the tail light no one would know it was there anyway...

However, the bumper is still off and no tail lights are in so the temptation to spray the tail panel exists

I had no idea this thread had come back to life...I was busy uploading pics from the Polk St cruise this past weekend and dangling them out to recruit new members to the AAM forum (strategy works great btw!).

I'll check the links later tonight after work...Hopefully it'll help me decide whether to leave the tail panel as is or shoot it.

Thanks for all the feedback

mopar0166 · August 04, 2009, 12:03:17 PM

i think the black textured paint looked good, sprayed it on a scrap piece of sheet metal yesterday and it didnt look half bad

TexasStroker · August 04, 2009, 12:55:05 PM

This will probably scare people, but I'm seriously considering using the same stuff I used on my wheel wells for the tail panel...

Why you ask? It looks awesome, it holds its color, and to be honest it looks like a pretty decent match (little more consistency with the texture) to the few shots of organosol I have seen. It has about the same gloss as the shot bill440rt posted. I think if I kept my distance it would cover the base already on and maintain the original texture while "freshening" things up if you will. [Sidenote: If the way he did the tail panel is correct than mine obviously wouldn't be 100% factory on the tail...I assumed the facory would have blacked out behind the bumper for ease and convenience, but I might be wrong. I'll pull the books out tonight.]

Again this probably won't go over well, but my bumper is blacked out (I like it). I just re-did the body side a few weeks ago and will probably re-spray the outside. Although the faded tail panel and the bumper don't exactly "clash" I could certainly make them more uniform by shooting the tail panel.

I just have that feeling that if I leave the tail panel "as is" I'll put everything back together, get the car running again, and then think, "Gee, why didn't I spray the tail panel?"

The car doesn't have the #s 383 etc, so it isn't like I'm butchering things. PROVIDED I get free time and spray the tail panel I'll get some shots up. I am waiting on some fittings to come in Thursday and the AN wrenches to get here Friday

(see what happens when you rush to get your order in by 9?!) so there is a small chance I could get it done this week. I'll probably still debate it, but I'm leaning in that direction...If it is horrible I can always re-do things.

Oh and bill440rt...The trunk floor is finally in, putting down some sealer to finish it off. I wound up doing the splice right where you did and I'm pretty happy with it...I'll be updating that ancient thread when time allows, lol.

Troy · August 04, 2009, 09:18:13 PM

Quote from: TexasStroker on August 04, 2009, 12:55:05 PM
[Sidenote: If the way he did the tail panel is correct than mine obviously wouldn't be 100% factory on the tail...I assumed the facory would have blacked out behind the bumper for ease and convenience, but I might be wrong. I'll pull the books out tonight.]

That's why I asked about originality. I don't remember seeing any factory black paint below the lip that sticks out between the tail panel and lower valence. Of course, on all my 68s the black stops at the lower trim (which doesn't exist on the 69s).

Troy

TexasStroker · August 05, 2009, 02:14:43 AM

You know, I could see it going either way. I'm now leaning towards the assumption that the factory would have stopped right above the lip as you mentioned was the case for 68s. I'm sure someone on here would know 100% definitively.

This is one of those things I never really stopped to think about till I come across it, and probably wouldn't have thought twice of w/o bill440rt's reference post. I'd imagine most of us take the bumper off and just run with what we find.

I guess this was likely an "expansion" during a repaint at some point, but again I could be wrong. Maybe the facts are finally conspring to help me make an easy decision, lol.

None of my books really had info or definitive pics to help out with this portion of the quandry. Nor did they have good shots to give me an idea of what organosol really looked like.

I guess if the factory had body color below the lip and behind the bumper I have no reason to feel bad about re-shooting the tail panel, and the area behind the bumper...Again I actually like how it is laid out and looks. Sets off the valance and the bumper wraps around to the quarter with "body color" behind it...Not a bad set-up imo.

Heck, maybe the tail panel as it sits was just an 80s era flat black textured paint, who knows...I certainly don't

Gotta love this stuff

1969chargerrtse · August 05, 2009, 06:12:41 AM

I used my paint from Mopaints that is textured and for the dash and steering column. I thought it looked real nice. It has very fine texture in it. Cost about 85.00 for the pint, and I used about 5%. Acrylic Lacquer. May not be correct, but it worked for me.

mopar0166 · August 05, 2009, 07:08:17 AM

Looks Great! Im so gald you posted that pic, my car is orange as well and its good to see what a textured paint looks like back there!

bill440rt · August 05, 2009, 07:42:46 AM

Quote from: TexasStroker on August 04, 2009, 12:55:05 PM
This will probably scare people, but I'm seriously considering using the same stuff I used on my wheel wells for the tail panel...

Why you ask? It looks awesome, it holds its color, and to be honest it looks like a pretty decent match (little more consistency with the texture) to the few shots of organosol I have seen. It has about the same gloss as the shot bill440rt posted. I think if I kept my distance it would cover the base already on and maintain the original texture while "freshening" things up if you will. [Sidenote: If the way he did the tail panel is correct than mine obviously wouldn't be 100% factory on the tail...I assumed the facory would have blacked out behind the bumper for ease and convenience, but I might be wrong. I'll pull the books out tonight.]

Again this probably won't go over well, but my bumper is blacked out (I like it). I just re-did the body side a few weeks ago and will probably re-spray the outside. Although the faded tail panel and the bumper don't exactly "clash" I could certainly make them more uniform by shooting the tail panel.

I just have that feeling that if I leave the tail panel "as is" I'll put everything back together, get the car running again, and then think, "Gee, why didn't I spray the tail panel?"

The car doesn't have the #s 383 etc, so it isn't like I'm butchering things. PROVIDED I get free time and spray the tail panel I'll get some shots up. I am waiting on some fittings to come in Thursday and the AN wrenches to get here Friday (see what happens when you rush to get your order in by 9?!) so there is a small chance I could get it done this week. I'll probably still debate it, but I'm leaning in that direction...If it is horrible I can always re-do things.

Oh and bill440rt...The trunk floor is finally in, putting down some sealer to finish it off. I wound up doing the splice right where you did and I'm pretty happy with it...I'll be updating that ancient thread when time allows, lol.

Nice!!

Glad to hear the floor worked out well for you.
The gloss on the tail panel in my thread looks a little deceiving, it's really not that glossy. It's very similar to the tail panel on 1969chargerrtse's response. Mine is a little blacker though, not as grayish.

TexasStroker · August 05, 2009, 10:49:04 AM

1969chargerrtse, thanks for the pic! Car looks great and it is easy to visualize things when the reference car has the same color combo! Based on your pic, Bill's, the GTXcellent link, etc I think it is safe to say that I was correct when I determined the tail panel was faded (hey, right about something, lol).

I will definitely be reshooting the tail panel. It is faded, the new paint will look better with the bumper, and I won't regret leaving it "as is" a day or two after re-assembly. The various factors contributing to that decision were: fade (age, weathering), the high possibilty it was re-shot and extend at some point in time, and the simple fact I feel better about doing it.

I might do a test area with some paint I think might work...if I like it, I'll be spraying it and posting pics...If not I'll tell everyone something "Not to do."

Thanks again for all the feedback!

And bill440rt, I'm not sure if the floors worked out well for me or if I worked out well for the floors but after a very long time they are in the car and I'm happy with that!

hemigeno · August 05, 2009, 11:23:19 AM

Here are some pics of a Daytona tailpanel, showing how the factory did the paint in '69. Sorry that last picture is a little blurry - I had the camera set for a macro/detail shot, and that must slow the shutter speed down some.

The paint doesn't extend above the upper/side trim pieces either - that's where the factory paperwork shows the break point to be (directly underneath the trim).

TexasStroker · August 05, 2009, 01:58:52 PM

Thanks for the pics! I guess since mine is incorrect at least the bumper covers most of it anyway, lol. Again your shot seems to have that semi-gloss sheen that mine is severely lacking. Hopefully I can play around the next couple of nights and work something out.

I guess I can add painting the tail panel correctly to my list of things to possibly do at some point, lol.

I'll be saving all these photos for reference...I certainly appreciate the insight.

1969chargerrtse · August 05, 2009, 04:56:21 PM

Quote from: hemigeno on August 05, 2009, 11:23:19 AM
Here are some pics of a Daytona tailpanel, showing how the factory did the paint in '69. Sorry that last picture is a little blurry - I had the camera set for a macro/detail shot, and that must slow the shutter speed down some.

The paint doesn't extend above the upper/side trim pieces either - that's where the factory paperwork shows the break point to be (directly underneath the trim).

Yeah stupid me, I followed the old paint lines for the corner pieces and didn't realize it went above the trim. I had paint orange above the trim to correct it.
Mint car and pictures.

1969chargerrtse · August 05, 2009, 05:00:11 PM

Quote from: mopar0166 on August 05, 2009, 07:08:17 AM
Looks Great! Im so gald you posted that pic, my car is orange as well and its good to see what a textured paint looks like back there!

My rear painting starts at about thread #377 on my restoratuion thread. My rear panel and stripe were gloss and even though it looked nice, it had to go.You can see the grit in the finished pic.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,34954.0.html

Just 6T9 CHGR · August 05, 2009, 06:33:28 PM

The factory bulletin off my registry site....

TexasStroker · August 05, 2009, 10:44:13 PM

Man, turning into a pretty awesome thread, lo...Thanks for the bulletin post! The link I cited when I searched the forum for this had the hamtrack tsb over "how to respray" but certainly did not have that detail!

In another twist of fate I got off work late, rush to cut the grass, beat sunset, about to leave the shop but I had to glance at the tail panel...and what do I see?

Orange paint UNDER the organosol/textured paint BELOW the lip

In the very fine scratch that let it show thru it was apparent the car was painted in that manner...so close, lol. I have to wonder why you would go to the trouble of spraying the black over the orange when the bumper would cover the area and they probably had the correct application as a guide when they dissassembled things...oh well.

I still think the organosol is factory, possibly sprayed over on the upper tail light panel because of the gasket adhesive and factory paint underneath...

Funny all the little things you learn when you are simply debating whether to leave something "as is," "restore," or in your mind "improve"

TexasStroker · August 08, 2009, 12:16:31 AM

Well photobucket had issues the other night and I just got in from picking up the rest of the parts I am needing for the weekend so here is the "oh so close" pic...

If you pay close attention you'll see several scratches/dings/scuffs where the unmistakable orange is shining thru the organisol-esque job

This is BELOW the lip btw. Go figure, lol. I really don't mind it like it is and I'm not really wanting to undertake taking it all the way down to "correct" things (yet anyway).

I hope to try my hand at recreating something similar to the organosol look to freshen things up this weekend. Good or bad I'll post some shots of the finished product...But alas we are on to the "oh so close" shot:

TexasStroker · August 09, 2009, 02:49:01 AM

Well 2 AM and I'm fresh out of the shower and waiting for the sun to come up so I can get back to work...

I probably should have gone ahead and pulled the tape/papers for a better pic, but I guess it is something to look forward to doing.

I will say that I consider this an upgrade although it is not factory correct. I hope it will look as good as some of the tail panels posted here when the rear is re-assembled (maybe tomorrow, wait later today

). I held up one of the tail lights and it looked pretty good nestled in the fresh paint. It was a different process and application, but I think it turned out pretty good. I'll also get to install the Charger script and medallion that I've had for close to 10 years

Anywho, here is the run down:

One last shot of the current set-up:

Prep:

Paint after the process and with a dark shot:

With a little contrast from the trunk lid:

Like I said, hard to visualize without the tail lights, trim, and of course lack of body color contrasting everything. I'll do my best to have some shots with the tape and paper off...finish assembled should I get the time.

TexasStroker · August 10, 2009, 02:36:01 AM

Got in at 130 tonight/this morning...If I get off at a decent time tomorrow I hope to have the car running, or at least have gas in the fuel cell. But I digress, here is the tail panel with the tape/mask job off. I know it is not the correct location etc, but I simply followed the lines left by those before me. As for the color, I think it is very close to those posted in this thread I liked the looks of and the texture is about the same as well. I'll get a final shot when the bumper, tail lights, and emblem are back on.

TexasStroker · August 10, 2009, 02:39:07 AM

oh, try and ignore the dangling weather strip

Just 6T9 CHGR · August 10, 2009, 11:27:50 AM

Make sure to offset the seam of the trunk weatherstrip like the factory did

TexasStroker · August 10, 2009, 01:28:37 PM

Isn't it 2" to the passenger side? The weatherstrip I removed was NOT factory, lol...I have no clue where it came from, it was a "slip over the rail" not a glue to the lip type deal...pretty worried when I first opened the package up. I've had it 9 years or so in anticipation of this moment, so I kind of have it hugging the rail to "uncoil" and hopefully make the install a little easier.

I'm also having a heck of a time finding pictures of trunk floor mats...none of the major vendors seem to include pictures of them on their sites?! I would have thought the different patterns and colors would kind of merit that...oh well.

I did see one in a 68 Charger R/T thread on here, but that is about it....Lots of mention in threads, but didn't find any pics...I'll search again when I'm home tonight...better finish lunch up right now.

If anyone has a good pic or knows of a site that has pictures of the different options let me know! I'm trying to decide whether to add one or not.

TexasStroker · August 10, 2009, 01:38:32 PM

Wait, judging by your trunk pic I assume it is offset to the driver side, 1 1/2-2" range?! Do you have a close up shot of the herringbone mat you went with?

I think I had old yearone/paddock catalogs that pictured them, but their sites don't. Hopefully I'll find them tonight and decide if I want a mat or not and if so what style/color.

Just 6T9 CHGR · August 10, 2009, 01:50:08 PM

I made the mistake of being perfect with my weatherstrip & centered it....didnt know back then that it was "supposed" to be offset. Its not much though IIRC 2-3" either way

The plaid mat would be correct for '69...either gray or tan. The herringbone one would be more correct for a '70

I had the herringbone to be a little different but I am running the tan plaid now (hard to tell in the pic but it is tan)....

TexasStroker · August 10, 2009, 02:41:36 PM

Thanks! I'll prob go 2" left or right based on how the weather strip rests better...

I was dead set against having a mat, but now I'm considering doing it...

I really wish there were detailed pics of the pattern/color as opposed to the "grainy" pics they all seem to have

Is anyone running the grey plaid from Dante's?

http://www.dantesparts.com/trunkmats.html

69chargerboy · August 13, 2009, 11:29:15 AM

Quote from: 1969chargerrtse on August 05, 2009, 06:12:41 AM
I used my paint from Mopaints that is textured and for the dash and steering column. I thought it looked real nice. It has very fine texture in it. Cost about 85.00 for the pint, and I used about 5%. Acrylic Lacquer. May not be correct, but it worked for me.

I did the same to my tail panel. I think it looks great! A big difference than regular satin black paint, but is a bit pricey from MoPaints, well worth it....

TexasStroker · August 13, 2009, 12:07:59 PM

Well since the thread is back going...

I ordered a grey plaid trunk mat Tuesday, hoping it comes in tomorrow or Saturday at the latest.

Monday night I got the car running

It was awesome and a sense of euphoria surrounded me for a few hours...

But it was temporary

Since a friend primed the oil pump for me on Sunday (I don't have a shaft) I wanted to get it running ASAP. I basically dunked an old 3/8" vent line off the Duster into a gas can and attempted to find a good ground with the POR15 coated underside...finally got the test light working at the lower shock mount...it was iffy, but got the pump going. A little koolaid down the throat and a few cranks and she fired right up...Just shy of a three year hiatus!

But I had to undo the set-up and begin the wait for the trunk mat. It would have been pointless to install the cell, plumb the cell into the new fuel system, add gas, run it a few days, and then pull everything out. The cell is ready to install as a unit and I'll just have to cut out the mat for bolt holes and fuel lines once it gets in.

I intended to have the tail lights cleaned up and the bumper painted by now, but I haven't had the time. Once the mat gets in I'll finish things out this weekend...Hopefully I'll have a shot of the tail panel as a finished unit so ple can't quit imagining what it might look like with the bumper, tail lights, and Charger script.

Once that is done I will go necropost the trunk floor thread with how it finished out and add the fuel system in somewhere. Then I'll be gone driving...for a long time....

Hopefully

mopar0166 · August 13, 2009, 02:25:28 PM

finally got mine painted, used rustoelum textured black spray paint.

worked great and looks good. ill have to take a pic this weekend.

TexasStroker · August 13, 2009, 03:58:42 PM

Quote from: mopar0166 on August 13, 2009, 02:25:28 PM
finally got mine painted, used rustoelum textured black spray paint.

worked great and looks good. ill have to take a pic this weekend.

Cool...Can't wait to see it!

TexasStroker · August 18, 2009, 03:10:46 PM

Got this done Sunday, but just now getting to post it up. This will let everyone see how the tail panel looks with all but the tail lights in place. I was missing a few of the housing to lens screws and I'm waiting to get a chance to get them before installing the LH and RH sets back into place. I'll updated it with a 100% finished picture when that happens! I'll probably update the trunk floor thread with one giant "look its done" posting, lol

TexasStroker · August 20, 2009, 01:07:38 PM

Got the tail light housing screws yesterday and got just enough time in after work to put the tail lights together, get the gaskets on, and get the tail lights installed! Naturally I had to wire everything up and see how it all looked after this down time...LH 2 is out, but aside from that very nice sight:

News:

Ogranosol Black on Tail Panel