Anyone else experiencing "moral" issues with the cash for clunkers deal?

[Mike DC]

   
Educate poor women  --->  lower birth rates

Population reduction  --->  the planet benefits more than the effects of all other greenie efforts combined





Educate poor women worldwide  =  Save the planet

   

[Ghoste]

Mike, the only flaw I see in that argument is that in the parts of the world where the birthrate is most out of control and women are most in need of education (and I'm not so sure the two things can be linked anyway), the poverty rate is so high that no one owns anything to make much difference in anything that would be considered a "green" effort and that in many of those same regions, it has been culturally entrenched for centuries that women are basically sub human chattel (meaning that it may not be the women who need to be educated   ).

I would agree that the resource consuming societies need a huge re-education though.  

[Todd Wilson]

I think I am gonna drive my 74 Dodge truck with a 440 today and increase my carbon footprint a little bit more!



Todd

[694spdRT]

I think I am gonna drive my 74 Dodge truck with a 440 today and increase my carbon footprint a little bit more!



Todd

Just backed my old '76 out of the garage. That is only a little 400 so you got me beat. 

[moparstuart]

I think I am gonna drive my 74 Dodge truck with a 440 today and increase my carbon footprint a little bit more!



Todd

Just backed my old '76 out of the garage. That is only a little 400 so you got me beat.  

I drove the 440 + 6 to work today  and i will drive it to topeka tonight

[Todd Wilson]

I think I am gonna drive my 74 Dodge truck with a 440 today and increase my carbon footprint a little bit more!



Todd

Just backed my old '76 out of the garage. That is only a little 400 so you got me beat.  

I drove the 440 + 6 to work today  and i will drive it to topeka tonight

You getting registered in the clunker deal to dispose of clunker trade ins? Dealership said they have a junkyard thats registered. Lots of paper work and stuff and they come get the clunkers and take care of them.

Todd

[Steve P.]

Thousands of levels to look at with this problem. My main argument is that the cost to her for the vehicle was less than half the cost to me for mine. I have spent many thousands more in fuel. Spent much more fuel period. I do (ON OCCASION) use it as a truck. 95% of the time I wish I also had a GREEN MACHINE for the trips to the grocery store. Runs to and from my kids house to watch the G-Kids. Runs to the dr.s and drug stores.  Fact is, when I was young a truck was NOT wanted by most families. Today they are very versatile.  This is why I have one. I have towed cross country a few times with it. I have been up the East coats towing a few times as well. Lots of short trips around Florida too. BUT, for me it makes sense to have a truck as I cannot get in and out of a small car with my bad back. TRUST ME. If I could drive some little shit box that needed a trip to the gas station once a month and insurance wouldn't kill me, I would have a little shit box for all my little shit box needs.

The moral part of it is argumentative on many levels.  For me and my thoughts, I think for the most part we should have done what Carter said we needed to do 30 years ago.. Brazil did and they are much better for it.

Don't believe for one minute that I am against our beloved mopars. OR our high HP and TORQUE trucks that chase down all our parts, bodies and drive lines. Far from it. I just think that American people in general have given up their fight and just buy what ever that color tv says we NEED. We use to fight for BETTER. Toys that lasted a few lifetimes. Cars that looked bad ass and came with (2-DOORS). Building a better mouse trap is what MADE this country. Defending it as well.. Today everything is made to fall apart in a short time. This means it must be replaced. Spend it again and keep the World spinning.  It's bullshit if you ask me. 

The flip side is that we have had groups of people that went against the grain and made people look at effect. In the early 70's I went on a cross country trip with my parents. Rochester, NY out to the West coast and back. 6 weeks of boredom for the most part. I remember a few girls I met on that trip, but more than anything I remember waking up gagging and asking if we just blew the motor. We had run smack into a wall of smog in LA... I had never seen anything like it. Also I couldn't wait to get out of there.  So some group stepped up and helped to change things. Today is much better there and LA has many times over the amount of trucks and rigs it had back then.  So, my moral to this story is that if we DON'T do something about what we are doing today we stand the chance to leave this world a huge cesspool for our grand kids. Our grandparents started this footprint. Mostly as they had no idea what the effects would be. We have a damn good idea.....

[Todd Wilson]

TRUST ME. If I could drive some little shit box that needed a trip to the gas station once a month and insurance wouldn't kill me, I would have a little shit box for all my little shit box needs.

I have one of those!  They are handy!


Todd

[694spdRT]

TRUST ME. If I could drive some little shit box that needed a trip to the gas station once a month and insurance wouldn't kill me, I would have a little shit box for all my little shit box needs.

Here is a little one for ya that doesn't use any gas.

[b5blue]

This is good! Carbon footprint vs Toxic footprint sort of.......I hate trowing away dead battery's.....I keep thinking these little toxic turds could be recycled some how instead. I shudder thinking about what you do with a huge one, hell they get ya for 2.50 on 1 tire. A friend gave my son 2 computers to mess with, after we figured out they were toast I researched recycling them....ya know there's gold in them. Here's what I found out, drop them off and pay 15.00-30.00 each then they get sent to a plant where basically the crush the chips and soak them in acid then use electrolysis to collect the precious metals, separate the steel for melting down and ship all the plastic to 3rd world country's to dump! Now there's a system for ya! I pay you to shove my old computer off somewhere after you get the gold. My point is the same thing is going on with cars....we just don't know it.   

[68X426]

Good stuff Steve, we are on the same page.

I grew up with horrible pollution in Cleveland Ohio, with the river on fire, and did college in Los Angeles with a wall of smog in the 70's. Both areas are way cleaner now. Great improvements have been made. We are all better off for the rules, the lawsuits, the protests. But LA still sucks (for me, nothing personal LA) which is why I live in the mountains in Northern California. I try everyday to rachet down my consumption and clean up the planet.

What my generation blew was the opportunity to wean off fossil fuel. It's a fact, and we are all at fault. I don't believe it is too late. But green cars are nearly a hoax and fail on the larger societal level. Too early to tell if the clunker program fails too.

If I drove my Hemi off a cliff I don't think it would solve anything. So I do all I can to keep my one little vice going and balance that hedonism with being moderate in all other things.

[Steve P.]

TRUST ME. If I could drive some little shit box that needed a trip to the gas station once a month and insurance wouldn't kill me, I would have a little shit box for all my little shit box needs.

Here is a little one for ya that doesn't use any gas.

No, but I bet it gives off some.. LOL....

Seriously, if any of you ever get the chance to see the movie, (WHO KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR), it is well worth checking out. You may not agree with everything, but they make some DAMN good points and very many of us fall into just who they are talking about.  It's more a question of what we realllllly need and what we are willing to do to help fix things... Nobody is throwing paint or holding up pictures of Bambi with an arrow through her head. But it will make you think.....

[Ghoste]

So I do all I can to keep my one little vice going and balance that hedonism with being moderate in all other things.

Good point.  We share the same vice and myself, I believe it's a better one than smoking crack all day and robbing someone at night to pay for it. 

[bull]

Good stuff Steve, we are on the same page.

I grew up with horrible pollution in Cleveland Ohio, with the river on fire, and did college in Los Angeles with a wall of smog in the 70's. Both areas are way cleaner now. Great improvements have been made. We are all better off for the rules, the lawsuits, the protests. But LA still sucks (for me, nothing personal LA) which is why I live in the mountains in Northern California. I try everyday to rachet down my consumption and clean up the planet.

What my generation blew was the opportunity to wean off fossil fuel. It's a fact, and we are all at fault. I don't believe it is too late. But green cars are nearly a hoax and fail on the larger societal level. Too early to tell if the clunker program fails too.

If I drove my Hemi off a cliff I don't think it would solve anything. So I do all I can to keep my one little vice going and balance that hedonism with being moderate in all other things.

That's fine if you live in the good ol US of A, or many of several other developed countries around the world. What pisses me off is that no matter how many enviro laws are passed the green weenies never stop crying and monaing about the supposed "atrocities" here in the US. Meanwhile they wholly ignore the complete lack of ANY environmental standards in the other 90% of the world.

[Mike DC]

Being a "Greenie" is just the newest world religion. 

[Ghoste]

And like the other religions, extremists of any stripe scare the Hell out of me.