318s, what's best as far as years go??

[elanmars]

They were still made carbureted up until 87 (I think?). I was just wondering if there was a "best" year(s) to look for or if it's one of those, any year goes.

I need a 318 in the mean time to get some decent gas mileage as my '69 will be a daily driver. In a few years and once I'm more settled, out of school and have a good job, then I plan to do more, maybe get a modern hemi to put in for some fun.

I also ask because most of what I have found so far are from 80s Rams, Vans and such. Found one out of a '78 monaco also.

[lisiecki1]

see if you can find a big block 318 

[elanmars]

any particular cars that used the big block 318?

the monoco is described as 5.2L 8-318, not sure if that means big block or small block? hmm.

[lisiecki1]

that's a small block, in all actuality you'll be hard-pressed to find a big block 318....i've personally never seen one....as far as other 318's in general i'd try to find something from the late 60's-early 70's that's in good shape...it would be well-seasoned, and should have a higher nickel content which makes for a stronger block....if you're just running stock then the one out of the monaco should work just fine though

[Troy]

The earlier LA 318 (late 60s) was rated higher than the later engines (post 71?) if you find a complete stock engine. Much like the big blocks, if you're just looking for a block then it won't make much difference because the components you put in it are the important part to how it runs in the future. Go for a 360 instead just for the larger displacement. The cost to rebuild is nearly identical and it should fit with no problems. A "poly" 318 is a completely different animal. A modern 5.2 (318) or 5.9 (360) Magnum will have more power, run cleaner, already has a roller cam, and - if you are so inclined - you can keep the EFI system for fuel mileage. They will bolt up to any small block transmission and you don't need the computer if you switch to a carburetor.

Troy

[elanmars]

The earlier LA 318 (late 60s) was rated higher than the later engines (post 71?) if you find a complete stock engine. Much like the big blocks, if you're just looking for a block then it won't make much difference because the components you put in it are the important part to how it runs in the future. Go for a 360 instead just for the larger displacement. The cost to rebuild is nearly identical and it should fit with no problems. A "poly" 318 is a completely different animal. A modern 5.2 (318) or 5.9 (360) Magnum will have more power, run cleaner, already has a roller cam, and - if you are so inclined - you can keep the EFI system for fuel mileage. They will bolt up to any small block transmission and you don't need the computer if you switch to a carburetor.

Troy

Let me see if I understand a little, I'm still quite the "newbie"-going with a 318, it would be pushed more for such a heavy car and would spend either almost the same or more gas as a 360 because of less displacement, so the 360 makes more sense. And I could still keep the EFI system WITH a carburetor?

The engine that I have in it right now is an all-around, super clean, really awesome 400 but it's just too much of a gas hog to use at the moment (fun as hell to ride though), the owners before me did it up quite a bit as my 400 in the '73 I had wasn't anywhere near as powerful. The original engine for this 69 was a 318 but I'm not worried about originality since it's a non-numbers matching car with aftermarket panels and such.

I will use the car as a daily driver and for highway/interstate trips back and forth to school (40-55 miles roundtrip).

[Troy]

Ok, backing up... I'm fuzzy on some of this information so this is a rough timeline.

There was a "big block" 318 (also known as a "poly") in the early 60s(?). Don't get that.

Then came the small block "LA" engine family in the late 1960s. The 318s were 2bbl only but were reasonably powerful and came in base model cars. The higher performance 340 4bbl, then 340 six pack, and then 360 came available through the years. The engines stayed roughly the same through about 1992 with the 340 dropping out in 1973(?) and the 318 picking up a 4bbl around 1979(?).

In the early 1990s the "Magnum" family of small blocks emerged. The primary difference is in the heads which are non-interchangeable but flow much better. There are 2 displacements - the 5.2 liter (318 cu in) and 5.9 liter (360 cu in). These are all EFI engines (throttle body then multi port later on) and I believe are all roller cam. These have the common small block transmission bolt pattern so swaps to earlier small block cars are fairly simple. Most (all?) have a serpentine pulley setup. These engines lasted through 2002 with the modern Hemi replacing them in 2003(?). These are truck engines designed to motivate large, heavy vehicles.

If you want more power the 360 has the advantage of displacement (no matter the year) but the later engines should produce the most power due to better heads. The 318 will probably get better mileage in direct comparison to a 360 of the same year. However, it seems that the gap gets smaller toward the end of production. The EFI is an advantage for sure but can be complicated to swap in due to the wiring harness and computer. Many people using the later engines just change the intake and switch over to a 4bbl carburetor. This hurts mileage but the Charger weighs less than a 1/2 or 3/4 ton truck.

Speaking of which, you can also swap the transmission to an later model overdrive. This will probably help your mileage (especially on the highway) more than just an engine.

If you currently have a 400, that's a big block and your transmission, motor mounts, drive
shaft, and possibly radiator will have to be swapped at the same time. From a cost/ease perspective it might be smarter to change over to a 383 2bbl. The mileage will probably be close to a 360 but with a bit more torque - and they are underappreciated (ie cheap).

Troy

[chargerbr549]

Like Troy said the old trusty 383's back in the day with proper gearing and such could usually muster upper teens to around 20 mpg in a car and it would be virtual drop in except for dealing with the balance issue. I had 400's that would also pull upper teens for mpg with ease. I had a stock 77 400 TQ 4 barrel engine out of a Monaco in my 69 R/T Charger for a while with a non-lockup convertor and 3.23 gears running around 60MPH and I could get 17-18 mpg pretty easy.  If your going the 318 route the late 80's 318's had the 302 casting heads and roller cams plus you can use your old style exhaust manifolds and run the old type performer 318 intake manifold 2176 Edelbrock in place of the fuel injection to keep if simple, and if you use the same trans from car about 81 and up they had the low 2.77 first gear and a lock-up convertor as opposed to the earlier trans that had 2.45 first gear and no lockup.

Kevin

[elanmars]

Like Troy said the old trusty 383's back in the day with proper gearing and such could usually muster upper teens to around 20 mpg in a car and it would be virtual drop in except for dealing with the balance issue. I had 400's that would also pull upper teens for mpg with ease. I had a stock 77 400 TQ 4 barrel engine out of a Monaco in my 69 R/T Charger for a while with a non-lockup convertor and 3.23 gears running around 60MPH and I could get 17-18 mpg pretty easy.  If your going the 318 route the late 80's 318's had the 302 casting heads and roller cams plus you can use your old style exhaust manifolds and run the old type performer 318 intake manifold 2176 Edelbrock in place of the fuel injection to keep if simple, and if you use the same trans from car about 81 and up they had the low 2.77 first gear and a lock-up convertor as opposed to the earlier trans that had 2.45 first gear and no lockup.

Kevin

Had no idea the 383s could go that high, that would be with 2.76 gears I guess? Had no idea a 400 could do that either!! the 400 in my 73 gave me a best of maybe 13 or so. I haven't properly calculated the mpg in my 69 just yet, been having too much fun driving it (but it's not much either) but I'll see what I can find around here as far as 383s go, find out what gears I have (through one of those calculator things) and make sure it's stock?

One of the 318s I found, the seller is including the radiator, 727 trans and A/C with it. The mileage is pretty low and it's from an 87 Ram-Charger. For $500. If I decide to take this instead, does that sound fair? Would the a/c unit be able to be converted to use in my 69? I doubt it but it would be nice!!

Thanks for all the info guys, it helps out a bunch!!

[chargerbr549]

I have and had several big block vehicles and driven others and these are the MPG figures I remember;

My 74 Dodge D100 with a stock 440 TQ carb and 3.23 gears will normally do 11-12 mpg 55-75mph doesn't seem to matter.

Had a 76 Dodge Monaco (C-body) was a Montana Highway Patrol car 440 with 2.76 gears would get 13-14 at around 75mph.

My 69 Charger when I put the 440 back in, street hemi grind cam 10 to 1 compression TQ carb, stock torque convertor and 3.23 gears, it would do 15 mpg around 60mph, when I put the 3310 Holley carb on it it dropped to 12 mpg.

My dads old 70 Dodge station wagon with a 383 2bl not sure of the gear ratio would do in the upper teens pretty easy I remember him always having to run premium fuel in it (back when they had leaded premium) or it would want to ping on him.

A friend of mine had a 77 Chrysler Cordoba with a 400 TQ 4bl carb (don't remember if it was a lean burn car or not and not sure of gear ratio but it would do high teens also if you kept the speeds under 60-65 mph. (Back when the speed limit was the bogus 55MPH).

My two cents,
Kevin

[b5blue]

Keep the 400 and stroke it later, you need to change the oil pan and pick up from truck/van to a car but 500 sounds good if all that stuff is running good, one of the guys here is pulling his 318 and tranny out of his 69....find him he said in his thread he would take 40.00! That would give you the least amount of stuff to change out like linkage and such and 40.00 leaves room for shipping. I think his topic is 496 stroker build....

[elanmars]

I'm starting to see that it just doesn't seem like a good idea to go from a 400 to a 318 with all that's involved, because it's not going to be cheap (right?) if I also have to change out the exhaust and all these things, unless I'm wrong and it'd be a less than $1000 job.  I did find a 318 out of a 87 dodge ram and I would get everything that I'd need for the swap but it would be costly, right?? since I wouldn't be the one doing it, wish I had the space and the time to learn and do it myself but that's not a possibility anywhere in the near future.

and I was doing some searching and some guys get decent mileage out of their 383s and 440s, which I never thought possible. I could live with 15mpg. Unless someone wants to trade their 318 ride for my 400 ride. 

[chargerbr549]

Small and big block chevy's are very easy and usually inexpensive to swap around whereas Mopars are not the easiest to swap around unless you have a complete set-up out of a donor vehicle so I would definately stay with the bigblock as it looks like you are doing. A couple of things I would do to increase fuel milage is to put in 2.76 or taller gears (i'm not sure if there are taller gears than that for the 8 3/4 rear) and goto a good Thermo Quad carb or a mid 70's big block Rochester carb and spreadbore intake or maybe an AFB or AVS carb with a square bore intake, have the ignition system running top notch and keep the highway speeds to a decent level and you should be able to hopefully pull 15mpg or better.

Kevin

[HDCharger]

I think what you are going to have to decide is if the amount spent to convert to a small block is worth it for for 3 or 4 mpg.  Example:  If you spend 1200-1500 dollars to convert how much gas could you buy for the 400?  I think you will find that there will not be any savings and most likely cost you money.  For 1200-1500 dollars you can probably find a gas mizer to drive to school and work on the Charger later.

[Rolling_Thunder]

To the original question...    I like the Poly motors - but for your car i would say a 67-70 block -

[greenpigs]

I say find some 2.73 gears if you dont have them already and get some 29 inch dia tires for the rear. Keeping your foot out of the waterpump would help also. Do the little and cheap things first. Proper tire pressure no clutter in the car and a good alignment couldnt hurt.

[Mike DC]

 
If you're serious about mileage then I'm gonna say get an old 273 smallblock with some later 318/360 heads & manifolds on it.  It will be slow but it's enough to drive the car around without struggling on hills.

(I would say get a slant-6, but realistically a 69 Charger w/o a V8 seems like a little too much to ask.)



I will say this - don't go for the 360 motor.  Not in this case.  They deliver pretty good power for 360 inches and such a physically small/lightweight motor, but the gas mileage seems worse than you would expect for the displacement. 

If you are trying to strike a balance between power and mileage, I would either run a 318 or else jump right to a 383 4bbl.  The 383 burns the kind of gas you would expect the 360 to burn, but it's got some really gratifying mid-range torque.  More torque than you expect out of that cubic inch number.