Need more feedback on the 69 charger r/t purchase (gen lee)

[rooroo]

I spoke to the guy in Tennessee today. He seemed pretty honest and went over most of the details on the car. He supposedly has sold 2 of them to ben jones (cooter). He paints all of them hemi orange metallic, including the ones he sold ben.The paint was just done last month. He restores cars as a hobby and for side money as he is retired. I was a little concerned with buying from someone who does it for profit but he seems to have a genuine passion for the cars. His first car he ever bought was a 69 charger. Specs on the car are such:
No fender tag but numbers on radiator mount and trunk match. It is a true R/T with correct VIN. The engine is a 440 magnum rebuilt 10-15k ago but it is from a 73 chrysler. I know the government restrictions knocked down the horsepower at this time but wondering how much of it was the engine and how much was the exhaust? He has ceramic coated headers and the correct exhaust from the 69 year so he feels the HP hasn't suffered. Trans is a 727 torque flite which was also rebuilt. Everything works other than the headlight covers and several of the gauges. He has auxiliary ones mounted underneath. The car has a very low geared rear in it right now but he would also give me a dana 60 with purchase. He feels the car is very solid and has very little filler. What work was done was with sheetmetal. He has sold several of these and has also been to dukefests, etc and he thinks the car is one of the better ones he has had and that it would be in the top 15-20% of cars at one of these events. I can get the car someplace around $24k. Looking for feedback as to whether it seems like a good deal, how much impact the after 72 engine will have on value, and what I could do to get the engine closer to the 69 version. Should I be concerned that it doesn't have the fender tag? I am thinking that once the engine numbers no longer match the more important aspect may be that it is an R/t as you can always swap motors but the vin number will never change. I would welcome any and all thoughts. I can also post some pics of it.

[rooroo]

Here are some pics on the car, motor, and underneath. The car has 4 link suspension in rear, fuel cell in trunk, and a very low geared rear which I would probably replace.

[Smokey Bear]

A 73 block can be just as powerful as an earlier block. What's inside it is what matters.

Paint looks nice from 2000 miles away, .... hard to judge the quality of a car by a few photos, but the sheet metal work in the trunk would have me questioning anything about the quality of the rest of the car. Judging by the metal work and linked rear end, it was probably a drag car retired back to the street. Racers don't mind butchering things (I'm one), as evidenced by the trunk, meaning that there may be many missing pieces throughout the car and who know what else chopped up. The gauges not working probably means that the wiring is hacked, also normal for a old race car. If the gauges and headlight doors don't work on a $24k car, what else is not ok? To me that indicates that someone is not willing to fix things that should be fixed and do the job right.

It could be decent car, but to me there are warning signs to look very closely at it.

[skip68]

As said above, it looks like the builder was lazy.        I would imagine to find a fair amount of bondo under that smooth shiny paint.    DON'T LET THE PRETTY ORANGE PAINT FOOL YOU.   Have a member that's close go check it out with a magnet.   

[rooroo]

Thanks guys. I was wondering some of the same things. Interior is nice and seems to be mostly complete but that can just be window dressing.  The car is being sold by Danny Johnson. Anyone familiar with him? He seemed pretty honest and was also under the opinion that it was raced. As weird as it sounds he felt that racing may be why the car seemed a lot more solid than one sitting in someone's barn for the past 20 years.  If anyone is close to Fayetteville, Tn I sure would appreciate them taking a look at the car. I would be willing to compensate them for their time. It is a long trip from PA to Tenn.

[skip68]

Johnson Farms ?   I know he has been building cars for several years now.  It may be worth checking out.  We have a few members close to him.    Good luck........    Chuck.

[rooroo]

Yes, his email address does say johnson farm so I would say it is the same person.

[ramairthree]

Sounds and looks like a drag car being put back on the street for profit.

I don't think its a 24K car in the current economy.

There are way nicer cars on ebay not getting bid that high.

[Daytona R/T SE]

You wanted opinoins,


Here's mine:


HACK JOB.

RUN AWAY !

[KWS]

I am not one to say negative things on public forums. That being said, years ago I bought a General Lee from the guy you're talking about. All I have to say is DONT BUY IT. I was very disappointed in the car and I bought it sight unseen from a listing he had on eBay. The car had lots of issues and very bad bodywork along with a paintjob that was done in his garage with all kinds of dirt and flaws in it.

I am not here to bash anyone, just trying to save someone else the disappointment I experienced. Please spend your money elsewhere. 

[Blakcharger440]

I personally wouldnt by a 69 Charger RT without the original fender tag unless it was going to be strictly a race car anyway like that was at one point. I would walk away from it as there are probably hidden issues with it given the level of work done with the wheel tubs.

[carolina charger]

It sure is pretty on the outside. Very rough work in the trunk- red engine bay fades to orange around the radiator support. I'd say 24K is way too much.

[BB1]

Ford 9' WTH!   Run away!!

[TA70455]

Check out JB666's thread and see what pretty paint can cover. Most old race cars should stay on the track, he did not even cut off the leaf spring perch's on the rear end?

[bull]

That push bumper's about the goofiest thing I've seen in a long time.

[bull]

This quote:

He restores cars as a hobby and for side money as he is retired.

And this quote:

Everything works other than the headlight covers and several of the gauges.

Don't make much sense together.

Call me crazy but when I hear the word "restore" in relation to classic cars I think everything should work right.

[Back N Black]

I would not pay 24K for that car,looks like lots of under coating sprayed underneath and that trunk looks horrible.Also the push bar looks like it came of a Mack truck. If you really want it, pay the few extra bucks and go see it.

[rooroo]

I want A 69 charger with gen lee paint scheme. It doesn't have to be this one. I would have flown to take a look before completing the transaction but it seems this one may not be worth the time and expense. Are there any professional shops that are reputable? I see Volo in Illinois offers quite a few but I dont want to buy anything from someplace with rep of being a tape and glue shop. They have a 69 with it's original 383 in it. Non RT though.

[Rolling_Thunder]

ummm     no

[BB1]

Lake villa Illinois? Hlpg? HELL NO!

Sorry, but this orange painted Charger search is going to lead to a headache sooner or later. 

Your intentions of buying a nice 40 year Dodge Charger all deck out like the Duke boys had will be very costly. 

[Mike DC]

Here's the truth - Shopping for a Charger with a GL paintjob is a recipe for trouble.

There are a few honest sellers out there who sell GL replicas.  But there are many more guys who put the orange uniform onto hastily built cars because they know that it pulls on the heartstrings of inexperienced classic car buyers that are easy to rip off.  (HLPAG/Hans Ludke Auto in Lake Villa Illinois has basically made an entire business out of doing this.) 

The GL conversion is a few thousand bucks in a layer of paint, a few hundred bucks in decals, and the extra bolt-ons.  Nothing more. Don't get ripped off on a Charger because of that color scheme. 


------------------------------------



And don't believe ANYTHING, I mean ANYTHING, about a GL being a "real one" of any kind.  (Not without some independent verification with someone like Wayne Wooten.) 

The phony "real GL" situation has gotten pretty ludicrous over the years.  It seems like at least 50% of all the orange chargers sold in the last 30 years have been claimed to be a "real one" of some kind.  Phony paperwork, phony ties to cast members, phony backstories, etc.  If it's real, there are some trusted people who can verify that fact 100% true or false.  If the seller doesn't wanna have it cleared with those who actually do have access to the VINs of the real ones, then you have to ask why he doesn't want to add another 50k onto his car's value by confirming it.

[scatpack69]

if you don't mind a 318 car there are some GLs on ebay for under 20K. course they could be junk but hey it's somewhere to look.

[rooroo]

Thanks to everyone who replied. Anyone have an idea of what I could get a rebuilt 33 or 440 engine for and whether I could use it with a 904 tranny?

[Brock Samson]

  you need to do alot more research before you drop a dime...
here is where you need to do it. So welcome and a 904 is not the best trans for a '69 charger. a 727 is the correct trans for most applications... I assume you meant to type 383 as in cubic inch engines... as was mentioned above there are a few, if not several places that make a living off inexperienced dukes fans,.. wait intill your satified your not gonna be ripped off before dropping your bank account balance.
It's far better to spend more up front then find you bought a really crappy project. good luck and welcome.

[jb666]

Check out JB666's thread and see what pretty paint can cover. Most old race cars should stay on the track, he did not even cut off the leaf spring perch's on the rear end?

THAT is the understatement of the year, my friend...

[69bronzeT5]

As said above, it looks like the builder was lazy.       I would imagine to find a fair amount of bondo under that smooth shiny paint.    DON'T LET THE PRETTY ORANGE PAINT FOOL YOU.   Have a member that's close go check it out with a magnet.  

I agree. Patches in the rear floor, everything motor wise is red/orange, black wiper motor.....everything shouts shortcut to me. That pushbar is damn weird looking too!

[ramairthree]

To quote my buddy when I had him take a look-

"perfect example of a bracket racer someone built in their backyard that is worth maybe 12k, but they think a thousand dollar paint job turns it into a hot street car and doubles its value."

[Troy]

At that price for that car I'd keep looking. From what I remember (as I have no personal experience with the seller), he's a nice guy with reasonable prices but his "restorations" would best be described as "amateur". If you want a car to drive everywhere instead of a trailer queen it might be worthwhile to investigate further but keep in mind that the price should match the quality you're looking for.

Troy

[mikepmcs]

I am not one to say negative things on public forums. That being said, years ago I bought a General Lee from the guy you're talking about. All I have to say is DONT BUY IT. I was very disappointed in the car and I bought it sight unseen from a listing he had on eBay. The car had lots of issues and very bad bodywork along with a paintjob that was done in his garage with all kinds of dirt and flaws in it.

I am not here to bash anyone, just trying to save someone else the disappointment I experienced. Please spend your money elsewhere. 

Jeff(jb666) just put me on to this thread and here is a very quick story. But first if you don't continue reading, read this.  DO NOT BUY FROM THIS SELLER!  He is a very nice man and it really hurts me to have to say this but if this car were stripped of its pretty orange paint(which isn't so pretty close up) you would have maybe, maybe a 8-10k car.  

Here is the story and it echoes KWS.  

I was in a position a few years ago to purchase one and I wanted a complete GL.  I started poking on ebay and came across the usual HLPAG cars and a couple others.  One was KWS old General and I believe he wanted 27500 at the time(kenny correct me if I'm wrong here)..  I called the number and his receptionist said he was on a flight back from LA at the time etc....... Long story long I did not buy KWS GL(still kicking myself but whatever it's done now) and stumbled on to this seller you listed above.  I recognized the garage immediately as his when I opened the thread.  I also bought the car sight unseen with 12.5 up front and 12.5 when I picked it up.  Well, when I picked it up, same old story, saw the orange paint, started right up, nice sound, couple visible flaws I could(had no choice at this point)live with, loaded the car up and drove the 18 hours back to maine.  My avatar is the same day I returned home with the car.  I keep it up there as a reminder to myself to never be that impulsive and blind again.  The car was a rolling piece of poor metal work, bondo, and a terrible paint job.  Basically everything was painted orange.  I have been over and under this car twice now and am having to replace everything little by little.  My car is supposedly a numbers car and I do have a build sheet, etc... but lets; just say I haven't really dug to find out if it's true.  I have more money in this car than I care to mention but I will.  I have probably $15k too much in this car.  I did wreck the car last year and had to put new stuff on there but regardless the fenders were junk, I don't dare ever sand too far on the rockers, the quarters really need replaced, drip rails are junk, etc.... My car is the twin basically of Jeff's car, there is no doubt in my mind.  My car is a driver and it looks just fine now and I am at peace with the whole deal( I have no choice)  I will never sell it anyway so it really doesn't matter.

I'm gonna end the story here but I need to say again that the seller is a very nice man and I hate to be negative but his price is way too high for what you get. Sorry this had to be done.  Do not buy a car from this seller.  Keep on looking.

v/r
Mike