Ok, I'm stumped. anybody have any idea what the heck this is????

[moparguy01]

I was at a car show and saw this on a 49 chevy or gmc truck. it looks like a fruit car with a amber colored liquid in it, with some plates sitting in there hooked up to power, there is a vacuum line running from the top of the jar with a hose into the jar going up to the carb, where it splits off, one of the splits goes to the first vacuum port on his carb base, and the second goes up and sprays into the primaries of the carb. I couldnt find the owner anywhere and I have absolutely no idea what it is. and it bothers me. haha

has anybody seen anything like this before? I figure its some weird snake oil type thing, or maybe he just hooked it up to keep people like me wonder what the heck he did to it, and it does nothing. which is possible because its something i would do.

[b5blue]

It's a hydrogen generator! They sell them on eBay too! 

[moparguy01]

got it, so its more of a snake oil thing, no way they could get hydrogen out of that, or at least enough to do anything.

Thanks for the help

[bull]

They work, allegedly, but the excess water that gets left inside the engine isn't so good. I hear engines don't burn rust very well.

[b5blue]

They burn all that excess fat you carry around.....in your wallet! 

[73-charger-383]

isn't there an awful lot of water in gas actually??  seems like the tailpipes drip plenty

[A383Wing]

that's not the water in the gas....that's the after-product of what happens when fuel is ignited & burned in the engine. Water is made from the burning of the fuel, along with another gaseous bi-product, but right now I'm so tired i can't remember what it is....

Bryan

[mauve66]

carbon monoxide

[A383Wing]

no...that's not the answer...I agree it's a by-product....I'll have to get the correct answer

[rt green]

o2,co,nox, and one more i cant think of

[Tilar]

got it, so its more of a snake oil thing, no way they could get hydrogen out of that, or at least enough to do anything.

Thanks for the help

Oh ye of little faith. You might want to do a little research on Hydrogen generators before making a statement like that.

[mauve66]

my problem with hydrogen is all this water vapor, it will be more than the atmosphere can balance and will create a rainforest  everywhere on earth and not to mention the huge rust issues that will start with all that extra moisture in the air.  I happen to like low humidity, and my fat rolls do also

[Tilar]

That one in the picture is really very simple but it will definitely get some water in the system. The one I have for my Suburban will get nothing but hydrogen gas vapors into the system. I don't have it wired in just yet but I'm pretty well banking on somewhere between 18 to 20 mpg out of that 454.

I know a guy not far from me that has an international patent on his system and he thinks with the system I've put together for the Suburban will push me closer to 30 than 20.  I just dont see that much but it would sure be nice.    Hell I'd be happy with 20.  His 3/4 ton 4x4 pickup is running the Duramax diesel and he's claiming close to 50mpg with it but the government will not let him market that paqticular system to the public.

[mauve66]

it but the government will not let him market that paqticular system to the public.

and the way they stop him is by? do they claim its national security???

[SFRT]

pee jar...

[moparguy01]

seriously, think about it. If you were to try to break hydrogen out of water, first i would think it would take quite abit of power. Second, your telling me that if you were to break down H2O, and remove the hydrogen that water is still left? How would this work? It has to come from somewhere, and if there is still water, then how could it have come from the water?

[Todd Wilson]

Wheres Dr. Chad when we need him...........................


Todd

[Tilar]

it but the government will not let him market that paqticular system to the public.

and the way they stop him is by? do they claim its national security???

The government is in the hip pocket of the oil producers.  Since individuals found out they can create hydrogen all by their selves, Oil companies pushed though regulations that limit how much more mileage can be produced.  It says that he can not sell a system that will raise fuel mileage on 4 or 6 cylinders over 300%, and can raise it no more than 100% on 8 cylinder vehicles.  He can do anything to his own and so can anyone else. You just can't sell it.

The problem with hydrogen generators at this point is the electronics involved. No two cars are the same so you really cant do a "one size fits all" system. Another thing that the government did was starting (I think) around 2004, they went to what they call a wide band oxygen sensor that can't yet be manipulated easily like the older narrow band sensors could, And manipulating the oxygen and MAF sensors are a big part of the success in making hydrogen work well.

[Tilar]

my problem with hydrogen is all this water vapor, it will be more than the atmosphere can balance and will create a rainforest  everywhere on earth and not to mention the huge rust issues that will start with all that extra moisture in the air.  I happen to like low humidity, and my fat rolls do also

Think for a minute what water is composed of. 2 parts hydrogen, one part oxygen. Take the hydrogen out and what is left? It's not more water. I know of one person that is trying to come up with a seperator that will seperate the hydrogen from the oxygen and then pump the oxygen through the A/C system into the cab. I'll have to see a lot of successful research on that one before I'd trust that one.

Where so many people screw up with this is they try to push too many amps through the generator trying to get more hydrogen out. It doesn't work that way. You try pushing too many amps through the system it gets hot and you end up boiling the water. This is when people start having problems with water entering the engine.

[Troy]

Although water injection has been used for nearly a century to decrease detonation so it probably wouldn't hurt to have some enter to combat the higher temperatures caused by burning hydrogen. What's the actual ratio of hydrogen to gasoline on one of these systems? And yes, changing/modifying fuels without altering the programming in modern computerized systems will probably hurt mileage and/or destroy the engine. I'd imagine that a less complicated system would see a greater benefit.

Troy

[Tilar]

I'm not sure of the actual ratio and I don't know if anyone has any specific number since every car is different in the way that it will accept a hydrogen conversion. The key to all of this is changing the air/fuel ratio from 14:1? to a higher ratio. I've heard of people achieving close to 30:1 on older cars. At that point you don't need any gas. Actually I've read that people have achieved that at around a 26 to 1 ratio.

You're exactly right in a less complicated system will benefit more. Actually the best candidate for hydrogen is an older diesel engine.   The guy I mentioned earlier put a system on an older El Camino and he claims the guy is getting 40 mpg out of it.

[Todd Wilson]

I am gonna say BS to this entire set of information.   While the concept of powering a vehicle with hydrogen is a good idea  the technology is not there to do it right.  You are not going to get any amount of hydrogen (if any) out of that that jelly jar full of piss in 01's picture to do anything for MPG of a car. You need tanks of hydrogen in the vehicle to power it properly. Hydrogen burns way faster then gasoline so you run into the detonation problems. Higher compression engines (and DIESEL)  and any forced air  vehicles (super charger,turbo) would not be a good type of vehicle for hydrogen.

I saw a tv show a while back talking about hydrogen production. Its been sometime ago so my memory is foggy. I wish Dr Chad would chime in here but the way I remembered it that it took a tremendous amount of electricity to make hydrogen to the point it was not worth the cost. That they use natural gas to produce hydrogen. This was cheaper to make hydrogen for things that they need hydrogen for but still not good enough cost wise to power vehicles. You'd be better off using the natural gas to run the vehicle then the hydrogen it would produce.

I would imagine someday the technology will be there to fill your car with water and drive around burning hydrogen from a conversion on board. It wont be in our liftimes. And once this happens you wont be able to afford to drink anymore as the big business's will figure out a way to jack water prices up to 4$ a gallon.



Todd

[Tilar]

If you're using a jelly jar full of piss it's no wonder you can't make it work.  

All of this is experimental and information changes every day. The generator I have for my Suburban is roughly 18 inches long by 4 inches in diameter. It has 3 grids inside made from food grade stainless steel wired into a positive, neutral, negative configuration. I really should add another neutral but I'd have to change my canister. It has one 1/4 inch line coming in supplying water and one 1/2 inch line going out into what they call a bubbler. After the bubbler the line goes into another reservoir that will catch any water vapors that might have come through the bubbler and return it to the generator. From there the lines will split with one going into the air intake before the MAP sensor and one will "T" into the pcv line. There are a few more pieces like check valves and such but that's the general idea.

I saw a tv show a while back talking about hydrogen production. Its been sometime ago so my memory is foggy. I wish Dr Chad would chime in here but the way I remembered it that it took a tremendous amount of electricity to make hydrogen to the point it was not worth the cost.

That was exactly right back when people first started toying with hydrogen. They thought that the more juice (electricity) they put to the generator the more hydrogen they got out of it. While they would get more with higher levels, they also got a lot of steam. No automobile can handle the kind of power they were trying to use.

The system I have for my Suburban produces a little over 4 litres of hydrogen per minute using roughly 15 amps of power depending on how much electrolyte I add. This is all on a test bench. Here is a picture of my controller.



There is a whole lot more to this than what little bit I've posted here. Wether you think it is BS or not is your prerogative and I'll be the last one to try to change your mind. All I'm trying to say is read up and actually learn about it before passing judgement.

[Troy]

How much water does it take to produce 4 liters of hydrogen? Where does the oxygen go?

Troy

[Tilar]

The longest I've ever run at any one time is maybe 10 minutes and the water level doesn't seem to drop any measurable amount but the whole setup I have holds a good bit of water. When I say a good bit, It might hold a gallon and a half of water. The tool I have to measure the output is home made too, so my 4 litres may be off but it's the only thing I have to judge if something I'm doing actually improves or not.  I guess the oxygen goes in with the hydrogen since I have no way to seperate the two.

I've only touched the surface of this. I'm by no means an expert but I do play with it and I (used to) do a lot of reading about it. There are tons of web sites.

I'll get off my lazy ass and get it put on one day and see what it actually does. Lord knows I've spent enough time and money on it, There's just other projects that need done first.  

Do a search for Daniel Dingle. He's a philippino that seems to have done some good things with hydrogen.

Here is one video of his. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4qpbsT9wso

[Tilar]

Back when carbureted cars were all we had, Does anyone ever remember their car running better when there was rain?

[Brock Samson]

yes, cooler denser air.

[dkn1997]

That one in the picture is really very simple but it will definitely get some water in the system. The one I have for my Suburban will get nothing but hydrogen gas vapors into the system. I don't have it wired in just yet but I'm pretty well banking on somewhere between 18 to 20 mpg out of that 454.

I know a guy not far from me that has an international patent on his system and he thinks with the system I've put together for the Suburban will push me closer to 30 than 20.  I just dont see that much but it would sure be nice.    Hell I'd be happy with 20.  His 3/4 ton 4x4 pickup is running the Duramax diesel and he's claiming close to 50mpg with it but the government will not let him market that paqticular system to the public.

No offense, but this is the exact thing you hear from everyone who's building these hydrogen or whatever type of injection systems.   It's always "mine's not running yet but it will get __mpg" or "I installed it and just need to tune it"    better yet is the old "I know a guy who has one that gets ___mpg"

I never hear someone say they are running one and it works. 

[mauve66]

my problem with hydrogen is all this water vapor, it will be more than the atmosphere can balance and will create a rainforest  everywhere on earth and not to mention the huge rust issues that will start with all that extra moisture in the air.  I happen to like low humidity, and my fat rolls do also

Think for a minute what water is composed of. 2 parts hydrogen, one part oxygen. Take the hydrogen out and what is left? It's not more water. I know of one person that is trying to come up with a seperator that will seperate the hydrogen from the oxygen and then pump the oxygen through the A/C system into the cab. I'll have to see a lot of successful research on that one before I'd trust that one.

Where so many people screw up with this is they try to push too many amps through the generator trying to get more hydrogen out. It doesn't work that way. You try pushing too many amps through the system it gets hot and you end up boiling the water. This is when people start having problems with water entering the engine.

so why does everyone say that the only by-product is water vapor it there is no water left??

[Tilar]

No offense, but this is the exact thing you hear from everyone who's building these hydrogen or whatever type of injection systems.   It's always "mine's not running yet but it will get __mpg" or "I installed it and just need to tune it"    better yet is the old "I know a guy who has one that gets ___mpg"

I never hear someone say they are running one and it works.  

No offense taken, believe me. I don't know anyone else that is working with this other than the guy I know that has that patent, and the others are all on message boards. And I guess the reason I don't have mine installed yet is because I'm a procrastinator. Look the word up in the dictionary and it has a picture of me.    I have so many other projects going that its easier to leave it on the bench. Plus like I mentioned earlier, My truck has a ton of miles on it. I've been replacing sensors and anything else I think might get me the most mileage possible without the hydrogen. I still want to replace my oxygen sensors because I think one of them is not working. That way when I do get it installed I'll be able to actually have a marker to start with. Right now I get between 13 and 14 mpg with it on the highway not pulling a trailer.  If the hydrogen gets me more then great. If not then it's rougly $700 down the shitter.

I know that the failure rate is a lot higher than the success rate, but I also know that many of the people that do this go into it half assed without knowing what all has to be done. Most think they can stick a generator on, fill it with water and turn the key. It doesn't work like that. It's not a quick job and no two cars seem to react the same way. But I know the system I have seems to be putting out a lot of hydrogen compared to others I've talked to and it doesn't get hot so no steam.