My 493 stroker build thread

[YGBSM]

I've spent a lot of time searching and I know that there are a lot of threads out there with advice about strokers, but my goals are slightly different so I wanted to start this thread to 1) ask advice and 2) post my build progress.  I've never built an engine before so I will need all the help I can get.

My goals are 1) look as stock as possible; 2) use as many Mopar components as possible; 3) use HP exhaust manifolds; 4) fit underneath a stock hood and using stock throttle linkage and stock '68 air cleaner; 5) use a stock looking carb (I guess that means Edelbrock AVS); and 6) pull enough vacuum to run power brakes.  Looking for 500 hp (SAE gross) anything more would be gravy.

Parts I've assembled so far:

Edelbrock CH4B (thanks to all the excellent advice here)
Mopar Street Stage VI heads- P4876311 (Nothing against Edebrocks- they are great heads- but the flat face doesn't look as stock as the Mopar heads and I believe the chamber design is better)
I'll be running 10.5 compression to take advantage of the aluminum heads. 
My first question is what cam to use.  Obviously I am limited somewhat because of my desire to run power brakes.  I want to run hydraulic flat tappet cam, so what would you recommend?  Or is this a stupid idea?  Should I run a vacuum canister and get a more radical cam?

Thanks.

[firefighter3931]

That build will make 500hp easy. The cam should be custom ground with a wide lobe center to work with the manifolds and make lots of engine vacuum.

Have a look in the proven engine forum at Mike's (MFR426) stroker build....it's exactly what you're looking for. 



Ron

[Mfr426]

I thought his requirements sounded pretty familiar. 

My motor looks stock for sure but it has a little bit of kick too. Thanks for the schooling on my build Ron. I'll see you on Saturday with your case o' beer.

Mike R

[firefighter3931]

Sounds good Mike....see ya Saturday 


Ron

[YGBSM]

I was at Carlisle and talking to the Indy guys.  Apparently they offer a 500" shortblock for 2,995 balanced and fully assembled.  That's a reconditioned block, a Mopar 4.15 crank, Eagle rods, and .060-over hyper cast pistons.  10:1 compression ratio.  

Sounds to me like a great deal- what do you guys think?  

Also forgot to mention that I picked up a new MP aluminum water pump and housing at Carlisle.  Parts collection continues!

[firefighter3931]

I was at Carlisle and talking to the Indy guys.  Apparently they offer a 500" shortblock for 2,995 balanced and fully assembled.  That's a reconditioned block, a Mopar 4.15 crank, Eagle rods, and .060-over hyper cast pistons.  10:1 compression ratio.  

Sounds to me like a great deal- what do you guys think?  

Also forgot to mention that I picked up a new MP aluminum water pump and housing at Carlisle.  Parts collection continues!

See if they will substitute a forged piston in place of the hyper/cast piece. KB now sells a line of forged stroker pistons and it would be worthwhile upgrading. 



Ron

[c00nhunterjoe]

wow 3k for a 500 inch short block sounds really good

[mauve66]

does the short block have a cam in it already??

[YGBSM]

Nope, no cam or timing chain.

[YGBSM]

Bought a '68 440 HP2 block today.  I was really pleased to find a HP block assembled only six weeks prior to the build date on my car.  No visible cracks or broken mounting points, alleged to be standard bore.  Won't know for sure until it is checked out by a professional. 

I'll post pics later!

[YGBSM]

Block:

[b5blue]

Wish I could remember what the cross after the 440 meant........

[YGBSM]

Maltese cross indicates .001-inch undersized main bearings.

[b5blue]

Thanks!

[mauve66]

oh noooooooo, it has the dreaded spider webbed number 1 piston

[YGBSM]

It's been a while since I updated this thread. 

The block checked out and cleaned up at .030 over.

Got the heads ported.

New parts:
Edelbrock 800 AVS
Mopar MSD 6AL
Mopar aluminum water pump and housing

Sorry for the crappy pictures.  The heads were ported by Hensley Racing. 

[YGBSM]

Another crappy picture.

[YGBSM]

Question for experienced engine builders:  what kind of oil pickup/ windage tray/ oil pan do you like?  I was thinking about going with the Mancini Hemi style oil pan and 3/8 pickup, Mopar stroker windage tray. 

I would like to stay away from external oiling, but I will if it the safe route.  What do you think?

[mauve66]

over the years i heard that the Mopar windage tray isn't good at getting the oil back into the pan and some shops have opened the louvers in it to get it to work better, again, that is reading on the web

[YGBSM]

Anybody else care to comment?  Is external oiling required on a 500 stroker?  If not, what oil pan/ windage tray/ pickup are you guys running?  Thanks!

[67_Dodge_Charger]

I have a 440source windage tray with the six pack pan.  Six quarts capacity oil pan is ok for 500 hp and with the windage tray you will sqeeze another 5 - 10 hp out of your build.  It might not sound like much but you will also find that the bottom end will last longer since it is not pushing oil with the crankshaft.  Check your clearances and check the oil pan fit for your car.

[Belgium R/T -68]

Up to 512 cui you should be good with internal oilsystem.

Per

[dstryr]

My new motor has the 440Source 7qt pan, windage tray and 3/8" pick-up with a Melling HV oil pump.

[firefighter3931]

Anybody else care to comment?  Is external oiling required on a 500 stroker?  If not, what oil pan/ windage tray/ pickup are you guys running?  Thanks!

External oiling is not required for a 500in build. The 4.25 stroke/2.2 rod clears the pickup boss with plenty of room. The 4.15 stroke/2.375 rod might need some grinding to clear but it will fit.

The Hemi pan and stroker windage tray work good in these applications.



Ron

[YGBSM]

More progress




Block has been machined to clear the stroker crank.  It has an Eagle crank, Manley rods, and Ross pistons for a true 10.5:1 compression. 
Up top it has comp cam springs, valves, and rocker arms.
Comp cam XE274H cam. 
I chickened out and decided to let the pros assemble the engine.  It should be completely assembled by the end of the week. 

[YGBSM]

Ross pistons- a thing of beauty

[YGBSM]

Street Stage VI heads assembled with some port work

[YGBSM]

Thanks to you guys I'm going with a street hemi oil pan, thank goodness I didn't have to go with external oiling. 

Hensley Racing is assembling the engine; it has taken longer than I anticipated but I figure they have forgotten more than I will ever know about Mopars.  So far my experience with them has been very positive and they have taken the time to answer my sometimes stupid questions. 

I have some questions about ignition- I have picked up a Mopar MSD 6AL box and Blaster 2 coil. 

1.  How do I make a Blaster coil look stock like the F.A.S.T. guys do?
2.  I am thinking about getting 7mm spark plugs wires from Bill Alphin that look like stock originals.  Are these wires capable of handling CD ignition and Blaster coils? 

Thanks again!

[Belgium R/T -68]

I've learned the hard way on my very stock matching -69 GTX convertible that you loose a lot of performance chosing sparkcables by the stocklook.
I finally got a set of Firecore cables and it was a totally new car, with your build the sparkcables are among the most important parts.

Per

[firefighter3931]

I have some questions about ignition- I have picked up a Mopar MSD 6AL box and Blaster 2 coil. 

1.  How do I make a Blaster coil look stock like the F.A.S.T. guys do?
2.  I am thinking about getting 7mm spark plugs wires from Bill Alphin that look like stock originals.  Are these wires capable of handling CD ignition and Blaster coils? 

Thanks again!

Hensley is a good shop....you will be happy !

(1) Just paint the MSD coil black....that's what the FAST guys do  

(2)The 7mm wires will not provide enough electricity to utilize the MSD ignition. All the FAST guys run Firecore wires which look very close to stock ( black wire/orange boots) If you need a set lemme know and i'll fix ya up !  



Ron


Pic of Firecore wires on a stock 440 with HP manifolds

[YGBSM]

The motor is almost done and now I'm thinking about installation, specifically changing "while I'm there might as well" parts.  Everything in the engine compartment is going on 11 years old.  Thinking about changing the following parts, please tell me what you think and if there are other things I have missed:

-engine compartment detail
-upper/lower radiator hoses?
-motor mounts?
-starter?
-belts?
-remove heat stove from passenger side manifold (I'm blocking the heat crossover)?

[firefighter3931]

The motor is almost done and now I'm thinking about installation, specifically changing "while I'm there might as well" parts.  Everything in the engine compartment is going on 11 years old.  Thinking about changing the following parts, please tell me what you think and if there are other things I have missed:

-engine compartment detail
-upper/lower radiator hoses?
-motor mounts?
-starter?
-belts?
-remove heat stove from passenger side manifold (I'm blocking the heat crossover)?

-Depending on the condition it never hurts to change rubber parts (Hoses/belts etc....)
-I like the aftermarket mini starter as opposed to the stocker but with manifolds heat soak isn't much of an issue
-Definately remove the flapper on the passenger side ex manifold and weld up the hole.
-If the stock mounts are in good shape i recommend reinforcing the driver side mount....see link below :

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,13216.0.html

That is going to be one torquey engine....start saving for tires now ! 



Ron

[YGBSM]

I heard the engine fire for the first time today and it sounds AWESOME!  It was being broken in with high zinc oil.  Still need to get it home and in the car. 

How's this for a neat and totally unplanned coincidence:

The engine was assembled in Detroit, Michigan on February 13, 1968.

The engine rebuild was completed in Knoxville, Tennessee on February 13, 2010.

42 years later to the day. 

[firefighter3931]

Congrats Chase....i'm sure it will run like a top and provide years of dependable service. 

Looking forward to some pics of that brute in your engine bay 


Ron

[YGBSM]

Here it is mostly complete . . . sorry about the crappy cell phone pic.  I will post better pics later.