all veterans stand up - this is NOT about religion, its about respect for others

[mauve66]

this is what the government is coming to...............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeuBB_mOFIA

[John_Kunkel]

Nothing new, the ACLU (not the government) has been at this for years. The cross IS a religious symbol, ask Saul Goldstein.

[mauve66]

based on the ACLU lawsuit and by your description then every cross (or Star of David for that matter) in ARLINGTON NATIONAL CEMETERY should be taken down 'cause their on Government property also, yes the cross CAN be a religious symbol but it isn't ALWAYS a religious symbol when taken in context

[Khyron]

how about a middle finger.... can I display that to them :-P

[2Gunz]

All I can stay is stupid.


Visit the website....


http://www.donttearmedown.com/

[John_Kunkel]

based on the ACLU lawsuit and by your description then every cross (or Star of David for that matter) in ARLINGTON NATIONAL CEMETERY should be taken down 'cause their on Government property

Yep, I'd have no problem with that.

yes the cross CAN be a religious symbol but it isn't ALWAYS a religious symbol when taken in context

Context? So why do you think the vets chose the cross to memorialize their fallen comrades? 'Cause it's pretty? They chose it because it's a Christian religious symbol. How long do you think that symbol would have stood if it were a Star of David or a Muslim crescent moon with a star?

[Charger_Fan]

Really!





You know...if more friggin' people would keep their eyes on their own plates, instead of worrying about what's happening on someone else's, this planet would be a lot better place to live!
Who gives a low flying rat's ass if someone wants to mark the place of a fallen friend/family member/brother in arms with a cross? LET THEM!

I'm so sick of the religious/non-religious bickering constantly being perpetuated by the likes of the friggin' ACLU & others, that I could just puke. They're only serving fuel the fires of hatred for our fellow man...why the hell can't we just get along, all these centuries later? I could care less who's religious symbol is stuck in a spot that's sacred to them, and as long as they don't try to push their agenda on me (or you), then why should I (or you) even care?
BTW, there's plenty of other religious symbols in Arlington, along with crosses. It's not as if the cross is the only symbol that has the market cornered.

[2Gunz]

 

[BB1]

In San Diego ACLU wants the crossed off Mount Helix and Mount Soledad 20 years ago.
There still there. 

[Troy]

So, something someone did (out of respect) 80 years ago offends someone now so the solution is to wipe out landmarks (and history)? No matter what the symbol, isn't the intent the important part? Even nonreligious people understand what the cross was meant for even if they'd have used a different symbol. What other symbol would you use?

Troy

[teamroth]

I do think it's a religious symbol. But so what? I lean towards atheist/agnostic and I don't see how seeing that cross there makes me any more or less of a believer.  

[PocketThunder]

I do think it's a religious symbol. But so what? I'm lean towards atheist/agnostic and I don't see how seeing that cross there makes me any more or less of a believer. 

A cactus is somewhat shaped like a cross... Are these people going to go cut down every cactus on gov't property? 

ACLU   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aclu

[73-charger-383]

i dunno...but i'd be creeped out if i saw a pantagram in the graveyard, but some people or satanic... ----i think the crosses should stay, but there's always a flip side to the coin....

[John_Kunkel]

Even nonreligious people understand what the cross was meant for even if they'd have used a different symbol. What other symbol would you use?

Why the need for symbology at all? Those who are secure in their beliefs shouldn't need symbology to reinforce those beliefs.

Does a Mopar pentastar plastered on every available structure make any of us more secure in our Mopar beliefs?

Religious symbols are akin to gang-banger tagging.

[John_Kunkel]

Even nonreligious people understand what the cross was meant for even if they'd have used a different symbol. What other symbol would you use?

Why the need for symbology at all? Those who are secure in their beliefs shouldn't need symbology to reinforce those beliefs. Does a Mopar pentastar plastered on every available structure make any of us more secure in our Mopar beliefs?

Religious symbols are akin to gang-banger tagging.

[c00nhunterjoe]

that shit pisses me off. its a dam memorial for the people that died   to give those asses the right to live here and moan and complain. they have alot of nerve to want to remove any memorial for soldiers.

[2Gunz]

Even nonreligious people understand what the cross was meant for even if they'd have used a different symbol. What other symbol would you use?

Why the need for symbology at all? Those who are secure in their beliefs shouldn't need symbology to reinforce those beliefs.

Does a Mopar pentastar plastered on every available structure make any of us more secure in our Mopar beliefs?

Religious symbols are akin to gang-banger tagging.

I dont think its Religious at all.

Somebody was trying honor and remember somebody.

[bull]

It's funny how antitheists use the same backward methodology as religious fanatics to make their point. It used to be that Christians got blamed for everything from the removal of The Diary Anne Frank from libraries to forcing Dodge to stop using the Demon name and now those who push the green movement and political correction are utilizing the same screwy mentality.

[Ghoste]

Why the need for symbology at all?  Hmmm, excellent question, perhaps an equal question might be, who is the symbology for?  Is it for the ACLU, the delicate psyche's the ACLU seek to protect, perhaps its for non believers in whatever ideology/theology the symbol portrays (you know a secret subversive attempt at forced conversion   )(?
My personal guess is that it is either for the deceased or their survivors.  1/2 of that scenario doesn't care so it really only means something to the survivors.  How interesting that the ACLU would seek to dismantle a "religious" symbol in the name of equality to ensure it doesn't offend anyone who is a non adherant to that religion.  Afterall, in the great liberal world of political correctness only the minority are entitled to be proud of their poor downtrodden religion.  And yet, the deceased apparently no longer have any rights to a religion, nor their survivors if that symbol is a cross.  I wonder if the ACLU would be so quick to condemn the symbols if they were shaped like a Minorrah or a Star of David?  What if the memorial contained a sacred meaning to someone of Hindu belief.  Would the ACLU be so quick to force them to remove the "symbols".
The symbol is there for the comfort of the family and friends of the deceased no one else.  If the symbol offends somebody then I think the somebody is more likely to be the one with the problem.
Symbols mean a variety of things to a variety of people but they have been a constant throughout the history of man.  Denying them to someone who needs it to comfort their own mind or soul or whatever isn't a form equality for somebody else, it's a form of oppression to the person who needed the comfort of that  symbol in this instance.  That sort of shortsightedness is what make the ACLU out to be little more than hypocrites.

[bull]

Even nonreligious people understand what the cross was meant for even if they'd have used a different symbol. What other symbol would you use?

Why the need for symbology at all? Those who are secure in their beliefs shouldn't need symbology to reinforce those beliefs.

Does a Mopar pentastar plastered on every available structure make any of us more secure in our Mopar beliefs?

Symbols only mean what you want them to mean, or, they only hold the meaning you pour into them. If I see someone wearing a cross necklace I don't automatically assume they are a Christian any more than seeing the Bad Religion tattoo on my coworker's arm makes me assume he's a Satan worshipper. Until I ask and they answer I just don't know so I don't assume. Are these men trying to push Christianity on people or honor their dead? The cross was once a pretty common symbol to mark graves, even for those who aren't Christian, so I doubt very much that a cross being utilized to mark the deaths of fallen soldiers is going to make most people feel obliged to follow Christ. If this cross is meant to endorse Christianity and it's on government property the ACLU might have a point, albeit a very weak one. Still, even if that were the case I seriously doubt the Supreme Court would cause it to be permanently removed but the PC stormtroopers might be able to stage a sit-in or demonstration long enough to annoy these people into submission. Most PC minions don't have jobs so they have that kind of free time on their hands. I'd say the symbolism of the cross has been diluted enough in this country to mean very little unless it's attached to the front of a church building. You might lose your head if you wear a cross in Syria but here in the US most normal people don't care.

On the other hand, there are some symbols (although very few) that are very taboo such as the swastika. That symbol had little meaning until it came to represent Hitler's agenda but as for most symbols they only mean something to the people who display them.

Religious symbols are akin to gang-banger tagging.

This statement makes no sense. The term "tagging" is specifically defined as illegally placing graffiti on private and public property. Unless someone spray-paints a cross on the side of a building, fence or water tower without the owner's permission your comparison is idiotic.

[General_01]

The ACLU is just totally whacked anymore. Anybody who sides with them on this particular topic is,IMHO, totally nuts.

"akin to tagging"? WTF? Please stop eating the brownies the hippies are selling at the flea market.

Also, if you are secure in your beliefs, why would seeing a cross on a hill to memorialize fallen soldiers shake your belief. The road goes both ways on that argument.

[2Gunz]

Direct from the ACLU's website.


"The ACLU is our nation's guardian of liberty, working daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country.

These rights include:

    * Your First Amendment rights - freedom of speech, association and assembly; freedom of the press, and freedom of religion."



So for a moment lets assume it is a religious symbol and intended as such.....

Wouldnt taking it down directly go against what they believe in?

Maybe it should be taken down and replaced with a HUGE sign like this....

[Shakey]

I'm getting kinda bummed out at the flowers I see at the side of the road marking where someone was obviously killed in a car wreck!  They remind me of my own mortality as I cruise down the highway.  Perhaps I should contact the ACLU and see if we can get them removed and get a class action lawsuit filed against all of the families and friends of the victims to compensate me for my potential mental anguish and suffering.   

[Magnumcharger]

I'm getting kinda bummed out at the flowers I see at the side of the road marking where someone was obviously killed in a car wreck!  They remind me of my own mortality as I cruise down the highway.  Perhaps I should contact the ACLU and see if we can get them removed and get a class action lawsuit filed against all of the families and friends of the victims to compensate me for my potential mental anguish and suffering.   

I agree...and was going to mention the "roadside memorials" too. But that is another discussion for another thread.

[PocketThunder]

I'm getting kinda bummed out at the flowers I see at the side of the road marking where someone was obviously killed in a car wreck!  They remind me of my own mortality as I cruise down the highway.  Perhaps I should contact the ACLU and see if we can get them removed and get a class action lawsuit filed against all of the families and friends of the victims to compensate me for my potential mental anguish and suffering.   

I agree...and was going to mention the "roadside memorials" too. But that is another discussion for another thread.

Well the road side is govt property, so the ACLU (idiotic) thinking would apply the same...