Electrical issues. The debugging begins.

[dillon14]

I'm not what you would call "wicked smart" when it comes to trouble shooting. My mechanic says my electrical issues are too much for him to figure out. That is why I am turning to the board members. Maybe you can help or maybe not. The good thing is, it doesn't cost anything to ask.

My Daytona clone does not have functional headlights. Having said that it does have working brake lights. That's it. No working rear blinkers (not good), no working oil pressure or water temp gauges (that is why I had the gauges installed underneath), no working fuel gauge (this really bites), I do think the amp gauge works but not really sure. I have added photos of the fues box now and before the resto. However, I'm not sure if any of these worked when I got the Charger. It seems odd to me that with the key off or on, there are only (2) hot fuses. Any ideas out there?  
Thanks,
Al in Maine

[hemigeno]

Al,

I'm moving this thread over to the Electrical section of the forum.  With all due respect to the very capable guys hanging out in the Aero forum, your question/problem is applicable for every IIGen Charger owner.  Answers to your questions, and help for another Charger owner down the road doing their own search, can be found here in the Electrical section.  You should get some helpful replies soon...


Gene

[dillon14]

Sorry about that. 

[hemigeno]

Not a problem at all - the goal here is:

>> Get you good, accurate information to help fix your problem

>> Make it easy for someone else with the same problem/question to find the answers by grouping things according to topics.

Wish I could actually help answer your question... 

[nascarxx29]

Ask away .I wired about 35 mopars and counting before you could even get aftermarket replacements.On my cars and alot of friends aero cars.I think I know alot of there trouble zones amp gauge bulkhead fuse box etc etc.I got all the diagrams on my computer to reference

[nascarxx29]

Taking one thing at a time if you have no brake lights or just one side .It might be your turn signal switch.Also make turn signal switch is not on left or right postion,When checking all your lights out .I usually check out the connector where the emergency brake mechanism .Which is where main dash harness connects to the rear light harness.I unconmnect it there and get a power wire and test out the rear harness .First be sure you have good clean bulb sockets and good bulbs.And good grounds .Sometimes it doesnt hurt to add ground wires from tail lights to good ground.Fresh paint lights in and out .May affect your ground.As to no headlights.And bulbs are known good  check head light switch /bulkhead connections /dimmer switch  /wiring harness ground

[mikepmcs]

Ok, we need to start with the wiring diagrams which are available on the Chris' 69 registry here.

http://www.1969chargerregistry.com/wiring.html

They aren't too difficult to follow once you get used  to the abbreviations and stuff.  

Also, the wiring appears to be different in the the 2 pictures posted of the fuse box(rear view)

I'm assuming the tail lights working/headlights not working were deliberate from the previous owner.  Something like "ahh, i'm never going to drive this at night anyway" or something to that effect.

I believe you have separate issues causing all these separate nonworking things so we need to focus on one thing at a time. I say we start with the headlights. Do the doors function as advertised or is that another one we need to tackle as well?  Just need a starting point here.

Another question I have is......is all the wiring original to the car and just cleaned up and replaced/spliced in, here and there or...is there a new harness under the dash, in the engine compartment, etc.....

[mikepmcs]

Ok, wait, I'm gonna take a back seat and let nascarxx29 run with this to avoid stepping on him and possibly sending you in different directions.  I'll add something if I think it might be relevant to the case.

v/r
Mike in Maine.

[nascarxx29]

Just take one wire at a time and remember to start where it gets it power from what it supplies .And that you also need a ground to complerte the circuit.And a 12 volt testlight comes in very handy

[nascarxx29]

The gauges have a IVR instrument voltage regulator that changes 12 volts to a flickering pulse 5 volts.

[dillon14]

Just to add some light to the subject I started (no pun intended.
1. The headlights on my Daytona were not hooked up when we built it.
2. I am not sure what did or did not work on the Charger whn I bought it as it was not running.
3. I think most of the wires are original but I am sure that some have been replaced over the years.
4. When you say turn signal switch are you talking about the wiring in the steering column?
5. Shouldn't all the fuses have power when you turn the switch to on?

[nascarxx29]

Anyone feel free to jump wont step on my toes.Just trying to help out.Ive  been through the mopar troublesome wiring issues  to #4 the turn signal switch at the column is a distribution point to feed power to turn signal brake lights.To #5 most fuses are power when key is on .The 3 amp dash light fuse isnt hot till headlights switch is on

[mikepmcs]

I was thinking the instrument voltage reg or the dimmer switch myself on the panel lights. FWIW.

On the issue of replacing wires.  i was specificlaly pinpointing the before after pics you posted.  Appears to be a taped up green wire in the before that gets gone or replaced inthe after pic with a black and striped wire.  Also the thick black wire in the after pic.  Where is that in the before pic.  I think I see it and I don't like the way it is pinched/bent in either pic.

[nascarxx29]

I seldom use the dash roll switch .I bypass it

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I by pass mine for 2 reasons its alot of work to changeout the roll switch.And you dont need to dim your dashlights they are never bright enough anyway.I went to 194 bulbs from the 158-s they originally had.

[mikepmcs]

and that thread with the bypass option is right here.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,58320.0.html

[2Gunz]

At first glance I thought it was the Amp gauge.
However after looking at the drawing Mike came up with (thanks!) the Amp gauge feeds the two that are hot as well as the rest of the system.
So thats not it.

I suspect its your key switch.
If its not that its one of the joints or wires feeding the key switch.

Should be an easy fix.

I marked up the picture for you to make it easy to find.
Check out the circled connections and wires.

With the Key in the "on position" you should have 12 volts at the lower circle.
The upper circle should have power in any key position.


Happy hunting!

[71_deputy]

as 2GUNZ says- check the wiring connector at the steering column for the ing. switch. there is two of them- large wires are ing. set and small wires are for the turn signal sw.

large red wire should have + 12 volts to it all time- check the diagram for the other wires for inn 1, ing 2, acc stuff!

[TylerCharger69]

Hmmmmm   Mike noticed some differences in the fuse block and so do I.   That green wire with the tape around it in the "before" picture kinda put a red flag up for me.  I'd trace that wire as far as it goes or reference it with the diagrams. You obviously have multiple issues.  Could that regulator that plugs into the back of the instrument  cluster be a culprit as well to other issues?

[nascarxx29]

  I dont know what options your car has .But as mentioned earlier the light green wire.Which I can think of is usually found at headlight switch and dimmer /and left turn signal switch/ indicator.But its shown on your fusebox terminal whats it suppling Im not exactly sure..Maybe for AC?? .I recall 70 RR had a light green going to power on the fusebox for the air grabber solenoid.

[2Gunz]

It doesnt really matter what the green wire is at this point.

The 3 lower fuses all get the power from the same place.
And the power comes from the other side of the fuse (not the green wire side).

[nascarxx29]

When I start debugging  .I suspect and eliminate any added new wire that isnt on a original diagram.Because you never know what the last guy did

[b5blue]

The first thing I'd do is check the wire connections on the back of the fuse block, they are rusty, the crimps to the wires may be failing (inside the crimp) at best that's a resistance point. If you haven't opened up the bulkhead connector and cleaned all of them also do that. Most problems are just corrosion or oxidation from being around 40 years, You may surprise yourself by cleaning everything well and checking continuity as you go. By pulling the instrument cluster and getting into all the connections, cleaning and testing first you may find very few actual "problems" left. I know it's allot of work but it's well worth the effort in the long run. I use and recommend "DeoxIT D100L" by Caig Laboratories Inc. phone 858-486-8388 the stuff ain't cheap but it works!   

[dillon14]

At first glance I thought it was the Amp gauge.
However after looking at the drawing Mike came up with (thanks!) the Amp gauge feeds the two that are hot as well as the rest of the system.
So thats not it.

I suspect its your key switch.
If its not that its one of the joints or wires feeding the key switch.

Should be an easy fix.

I marked up the picture for you to make it easy to find.
Check out the circled connections and wires.

With the Key in the "on position" you should have 12 volts at the lower circle.
The upper circle should have power in any key position.


Happy hunting!

Took your advise and found the black wire going to the ignition switch was broken. Fixed it and the blinkers and tail lights now work. However, the gauges still do not. I suspect it is because (2) prongs are broken on the back of the gauge cluster. The voltage prong and the temp gauge prong. I only care about the gas gauge at this point as I have oil and temp gauges mounted under the dash. I suspect that the voltage prong is what gives the gauges the power. Is there any way without replacing the entire cluster to make the gas gauge work?
Thanks

[nascarxx29]

  On finding and fixing your electrical gremlins And these color wiring diagrams make it much easier to read

http://www.classiccarwiring.com/

[dillon14]

I'm hoping someone will chime in on my gas gauge question I mentioned in my previous post.

[nascarxx29]

The IVR instrument voltage regulator which has 3 prongs and plugs into the circuit board on back of mounted instrument cluster.This circuit board also has 5 pins one is 12 volt feed a black wire and dark blue for gas gauge.Rest of the pins are for other gauges and dash lights  . The IVR takes key on power 12 volts and changes it to a pulsating 5 volts .Required to run the gauges. Excluding the amp gauge.I test this way.I ground out the the blue wire temporarly that plugs onto tank sender to a good ground.Turn key on gas gauge pegs and turn key off gas gauge falls back .Gauge works and registers its limits.The other test is using a testlight on this same blue wire .And see if light pulsates checking out the IVR voltage.If all this checks out it.It leaves the tank sender in question and tank ground strap.If gas gauge doesnt still work.

[2Gunz]

Non of the gauges will work with the voltage line not connected.

As far as fixing yes you can.

I would approach it one of two ways.

If your into original I would find some sort of something that is the same shape and size as the current pins.
A cut finish nail for example. Then just solder it into place like the other ones on the board.

The second which is what I would do....

Is find some sort of 5 pin connector. Maybe a trailer brake light connector?
Cut off all the old pins. Cut off the old harness connector.
Then just wire that into its place.

Like this one.



I dont know what the red line is on that picture for, I didnt draw it.

[nascarxx29]

Those circuit boards are known for loose or broken pins.Do what it takes to reastablish those connections.

[y3chargerrt]

You can replace it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-rallye-dash-circuit-board-68-70-B-Body-Mopar_W0QQitemZ110394580930QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item19b4079fc2&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1171

[2Gunz]

Very cool.

But unless its really trashed seems like a lot to spend to fix a few solder joints.

[dillon14]

After a lot of work getting my hands up behind the dash, I finally managed to insert a brad into the voltage broken pin hole. Connected the plug and the gauges worked with the exception of the fuel gauge. I then went back under the car, disconnected the wire to the sending unit and grounded it. Turned the key on and it pinned the fuel gauge needle. Can I now assume that the fuel sending unit needs to be replaced? Man, it just doesn't end.

[mikepmcs]

Possibly.  The sending unit just might need some wire cleaning and such. Worth a try and it's free.

[nascarxx29]

Glad to hear you found your electrical gremlin.You be the second post I read this morning.Ive been following along to see if they got it straightened out.The other post started of with a dash cluster R@R and guy lost all leftside turn signal function.It probably hasnt happen to your car yet.But if and when it does you will know what to check for
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,59020.0.html

[nh_mopar_fan]

When I start debugging  .I suspect and eliminate any added new wire that isnt on a original diagram.Because you never know what the last guy did

That's where I would start. I printed up an extra copy of the wiring chart and then traced every single wire. I was under the dash and my wife had the chart and a box of colored markers. Every time I traced a wire, she'd confirm the color and highlight it on the diagram with the color of the wire. With a hacked harness, I gave up checking here and there and just checked everything.

Found some really boneheaded stuff.

It's time consuming but needs to be done.

[nascarxx29]

Link to various wiring diagrams you may need .
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=27

[SeattleCharger]