440 B-Body Power Output

[DJF]

Hi all,

I have a 1970 Dodge Charger that i been playing with now for 3 years.
Car looked mint when i got him home but felt underpowered. The previous owner had only done 2000 miles since he rebuilt it. Now he did give me a box with all his nice recipts of what he had bought. Didnt seem to clever .... dont wanna go into too much details ... but high compression pistons you know rated at 10.5:1 with the standard heads ok then he put edelbrock 84cc chambered heads on it the performers that dont flow any more have given away the extra compression, a weight saving is all i see that did. The cam in it was very mild and listed as a towing cam. Stock exhaust manifolds and a crap attempt at a home made exhaust system, edelbrock performer intake 750cfm Holly Carb.

OK so I changed some stuff.

Indy SR1 fully cnc ported 78cc chamber
Indy dual plane intake again ported to match the heads
0.511 comp 3 bolt cam
850 cfm mighty demon
Full TTi Exhaust including headers and 3" system
radiator to keep cool electric water pump and fuel pump.
Big low mount Alterntor

Also i put in a new super street fighter 727
3000 stall TCI convertor
3.73 Randys ring and pinion custom third member for the rear end with a tough posi in it.

Now I put this thing on a rolling road yestrerday and it managed 365BHP at the rear wheels.

Everything was great, fueling was perfect timing was spot on, we fiddled with it and get it where it wasnt detenating and everything seemed happy.

What kinda power would you expect this to be making?
I was told speaking to the guys at Indy and though desktop dyno etc. this set up should be good for 500HP at the fly?

Is anything wrong?
Coz im kinda feeling like it should be making more at the wheels?

[c00nhunterjoe]

what are the rest of the specs on the cam? may be too small for your high flow heads and intake. what do the heads and intake flow after the work was done to them? what pistons ended up being in it when you pulled the old heads? 

[DJF]

Cam erm its a strong Cam I will dig out the card when I get home, dont think its that though it was recomended and supplied with Indy with the rest of the Kit.

The Heads now flow 295CFM across the intake they were machined by indy, same with the dual planbe intake.

Now I have been thinking about this and I have more questions.

What temperature should this thing be running at.. Seems to get hot

just over 200 degrees on the rollers and after a few power runns it was getting hot to the point where the fuel was jumping out eh Primary vent tubes into the intake? although my water temperature was only reading a shade over 200 degrees F. When i was at the rolling road it was a hot day 80 degrees plus.

200 degrees water temperature though I didnt think was too hot, or is it for one of these motors? If so what Termostat should I be using.

Can it be that the high temperature could cause valve bounce at high RPM's coz the oil is thinning too much and not allowing the tappets to pressurize propperly?

[c00nhunterjoe]

you need to cool it down to 180, either more rad or more fan or both.....   boiling fuel = huge loss of horsepower too. how is the fuel line routed in the engine compartment?  keep it off of anything metal. also, can you place your hand on the carb or will it burn you? add a 1 inch phenolic spacer, you will be able to rest your hand on the carb with the motor at 180 degrees and the carb will feel cool to the touch, makes a huge difference.

have you tuned the carb or is it "out of the box"?

another thing that can affect your  dyno numbers is elevation. where are you located? near sea level or in the mountains?

[DJF]

Thanks for the info. 

Yeah the carb is hot at hell, I did have a 1" spacer between the intake and the carb but i had issues with hood clearances so it had to go.
It has a very expesive be cool rad with two electric fans this thing was expensive like over $2k. So Im hoping that is good enough though I have since read differeing info and I could of bought better.

I also have a mezerie electric water pump and an electric fuel pump. TBH Im really not impressed Im not convinced the electric pump shifts as much as the old mechanical pump for sure its better in the traffic though. Maybe I should of changed the old mechanical pulleys instead? Anyone have a few on this?

The Fuel line is routed over alone the chassis rail then comes up over the back clips to the firewall the into the carb. now this is how is was when I bought the car I have done loads of work since but if there is a better way for this to go please let me know.

Im at sea level here though I will say the day at the rolling road, it was over 80 degrees that day.

[c00nhunterjoe]

electric water pumps are horrible on big block chrsylers. get rid of it as i would bet that is a big contributer, also get the spacer back on and switch to a lower profile air cleaner, i have the k and n filter with the top element and no issues, its short but flows VERY well.

[DJF]

Yeah im deffo goin back to machanical pumps.

What kinda heat range thermostat should I use?

What route should the Fuel line take?

[c00nhunterjoe]

i prefer a 180 stat with a 3 row radiator, either a good electric fan or a free flowing mechanical fan.  i run a 3 row radiator with a small flex fan and no shroud on my respectable 383 and i run 180 on hot days with it climbing to 200 in traffic at idle, never gets over 200 though.

as long as the fuel line is not resting on the intake or valve covers you should be fine. the key is to keep it from resting on anything hot

[DJF]

yep

I got back to the mechanical water pump. Im thinking this will fix a lot of problems, and it means i can go back to a mechanical fuel pump. The electric one sucks! Its lould! I have mounted it below the tank as far to the tank at the back enbd as possible still hums like a drunk bee.

Damn it if i knew a year ago what i know now .....

[c00nhunterjoe]

i prefer the electric fuel pumps, if you can hear it then your mufflers are not loud enough......

[Hot_Rodder]

DJF, just as a reference, on my '72 that I'm building a 440/505 stroker for, I do plan on running a mechanical water pump (aluminum housing and aluminum high volume water pump), and also a Carter Street Super mechanical fuel pump. I'm hoping this f.p. will feed this motor with over 600 hp.... And a 950 carb (can't go much larger on a 4150 style carb). Now as for the muff's not being loud enough, well... I can't say much on that one lol. I guess c00nhunterjoe might be trying to tell you to get some straight through race muff's maybe??? LOL. Anyway, congrats on the 70 Charger man, hope things get better, and you can get out and have some fun.

[DJF]

Thanks for the info guys. I'll be goin back to mechanical pumps in the next month. And I'll try to find a way to mount a 160AMP MSD alternator in the stock loacation lol that should be some fun :-)

[c00nhunterjoe]

why so many amps? you cant possibly have enough draw to need that? and if you do run it you will need some serious cables to handle the potential current. the stock wires will melt in no time