Hooker vs Headman

[aifilaw]

Obviously I don't have the sort of cash required for TTI headers, but my memory has failed me so someone who has experience please refresh it as I'm about to invest in a set of headers.
I'd like to go ceramic coated, but we'll see...

1-3/4" primaries with 3" outlet

specifically referring to a B engine going in a B body 3rd gen charger with PS. and 516 heads
Clearance of the starter is the primary concern, which fits better?

[ChargerBill]

I have heard that TTI's are the only REAL choice when dealing with Eddy heads, but Hookers will fit well also. BTW: I have also seen many guys put 1 7/8 headers on their 440...

[Runner]

headmans fit great with e-heads. 1 small ding and thats it.  thorleys are the best header chioce all things considered i think.  heres some great pics of 5903 hookers

http://www3.telus.net/moparstuff/TestFit/index.htm

heres a good header artical

http://www.moparts.com/Tech/Archive/bb/60.html

  summit sells chrome thorleys for 151 for 329

  i personally am giong to change from headmans to hookers because i want 1 7/8 inch tubes, and i have a good use for the headmans i have now on another car im biulding. i wont pay over 300 dollars for ceramic coated headmans again.  they fit good but they jut arent a super well made header to be in the same price range as thorleys or hooker (honeslty i think the thorleys are much better than hookers but i want bigger tubes.)

[cudaken]

516 heads
Clearance of the starter is the primary concern, which fits better?

Where did the E-heads come from, seems he has 516's?

Can't say how Hookers will fit on a 3Rd gen, never had one. I have super comps on my Runner and have held up for 20 years now and stoc starter fits and with tricks I have learned in 20 years not that bad to change.

Close of I have came to a 3rd Gen is my 70 Cuda, same inner fenders. Cheap header's of unknow brand. Easyer to change the 1 time I have in 18 years than the 68 Runner the first time.

         TTI's fit great, did one car 68 Charger with them, BUT I STILL LOVE HOOKERS, and the headers as well

                             Cuda Ken

PS, mine are chrome

[Runner]

ken, i guess i was more replying to bill, however id still buy thorley's as well if i was looking at buying a ceramic coated   headers, cheaper, they fit and have thick tubes and flanges

[vegasmike]

this is my experience with super comp hookers with eddy heads...I had to heat up with a torch and socket to form around tha spark plugs not as bad as it sounds,just a good hour of mopar work no big deal,but hookers are a good tuned header and is worth it...I have 1 7/8 super comps....don't be discouraged

[Ghoste]

I have used Hedmans on my cars a few times and have always had good luck with them.  For a race header, I'd go with the Hookers but that's just me.

[firefighter3931]

this is my experience with super comp hookers with eddy heads...I had to heat up with a torch and socket to form around tha spark plugs not as bad as it sounds,just a good hour of mopar work no big deal,but hookers are a good tuned header and is worth it...I have 1 7/8 super comps....don't be discouraged

Welcome Vegas Mike....nice to see you posting !

On the headers, the hooker comps are a nice header for the $$. Thick flanges and tubing that last a looooong time. I'd get the 17/8 x 3in Comps for that 383 and just coat them with some Eastwoods manifold paint. That stuff works amazingly well from what i've seen. The Comps won't cause headaches with a factory plug location and can be modified to work with an angled plug as well. Starter access is the usual deal.....

Ron

[aifilaw]

Well, first of all let me say, if any of you remember my work from the old site in detail, that I'm very dissapointed that everyone tries to use the word "e-heads" in ever sentence about a mopar now. Maybe they have increased in quality since 2 years ago...but its still a poor head and I feel sorry for the people who think its the end-all godly head for mopars.

Second, to clarify my question, who has installed hookers, hedmans, and thorley's. Both ceramic coated or not. And what work did you have to do to get them to fit. The typical headache locations are the starter and the plugs. I don't mind bending header tubes a bit for plugs, that's expected with all the ones I've done in the past, but I especially don't like bending to make the starter fit like my last set. So which headers don't have starter bending problems, and of those which ones do I have to bend the least for plugs. Then I'll decide whether or not to go with ceramic coating. Paint is always a bad idea.

don't let the psot count fool you, I was close to 10k on the old board, but future wives and other things get in the way these days

keep those chargers runnin!

[Runner]

no bending on headmans, low deck b-body powersteering, 68 column shift car 516 heads, no bending headmans 71 roadrunner floor shift 906 heads however with e-heads it reqired one little ding, however if you have a 71 column shift you have to do some work with your shift linkage. headmans fit nice, the headmans on my 68 are about 10 years old and dont leak a bit, the headmans (ceramic coated ) on my roadrunner leak between #3 and 5 cylenders, they are 2 years old. im giong to weld up the flange and machine it back down after they get replaced with hookers on my E-HEADS. did i mention that i have e-heads and like them very much.     dang i put a set of e-heads on my junk and it runs much better.   wow my e-heads sure are purdy. e-head e-head e-head e-head e-head e-head.

     i never confuse post count with knowledge. i learned along time ago some of the smartest people are the silent ones.     oh and one last time,   e-heads

[firefighter3931]

...but its still a poor head and I feel sorry for the people who think its the end-all godly head for mopars.

Ha, old habits die hard...lol ! I take it you've run 9's with your 516's   Lots of E-HEAD guys are with their "inferior" castings. Give it a break dude and come back when you've got some concrete proof that they don't work. I HAVE PROOF that they DO....read it and weep !!!!!

Oh Ya....pump gas, 446 cubes, 535hp/540ftlbs....lets see a 516 head post those numbers 

[firefighter3931]

     i never confuse post count with knowledge.

Bingo....right on Mike ! 

[cudaken]

 Hey Mike, good to see you back. You are right about post cont's as well. With mine some people might think I know more than Neil and Ron, not the case. But still not a dumb sh-t either.

OK on my 68 Road Runner, Hooker Super Comp, with floor shift no real problems on fit. No dings need to clear plugs, stock starter fits fine and not prone to going bad from heat. Trick on changing the starter is unhook the column, drive it into it self. Unbolt the the starter and pull up by the starter wires. Only bad point is left collecter hangs down a little low and will drag some times. Good point, never have leaked in 20 years, in fact I use stock exhust manafold gaskets.

68 Charger,383 floor shift and TTI's cermic coated. Fits as well as the hookers, but clears the plugs just a little better than the hookers. Will clear a stock starter with easy's. Pretty much a copy of the Hookers with refinment's around the plugs. Not a ture equal lenght tubes but close.

Not sure what these are but they are pretty much the worst I have ever used. Bought them off E-bay and seller thought they where Headman. New but box was long gone. Has this number on the back of the flange.                           78030
                                          6     7
69 Dodge Charger, 440 floor shift. I can not find a name on them, I would not put my name on them either. Took 2 hours and 3 people to get the 440 and headers into the Charger. Final had to pull the steering colunm all the way out to get the 440 in. Finaly got the stock starter in, layied on a header tube. Had to use a min starter, there was no option. Number 3 tube is with in 1/16th of a inch of the power steering box. Plug wire on 3, 5, 4 and 6 had to get heat socks.

Castlers, cheap brand of Hookers around 1973, my first header's. My God, you want to talk about cheap. I was changing gaskets every 6000 miles, Final gave up and lived with the leaks. Then the header tubes started to break off the flanges! After 2 years I cut the F--kers off with a tourch and enjoyed doing it. I hate them, stooped the remains flat!

70 Cuda 383, floor shift Headman I was told. Stock starter would work and last for 40,000 miles. Was harder to change than the Runner with the hookers. Number 3 plug was a bitch to get wrench on. To get the plug in I had to stick a 8" rubber hose on to the plug. Guide plug to the hole with 2 finguers and trun with the rubber hose to get started. Never did have a leak.

                              Cuda Ken

                                       
                           

[Runner]

ken 78030 is the headman part # for a big block mopar. 

[cudaken]

HEADMAN SUCK BIG HAIRY DONKEY D--KS THEY BLOW LIKE A $2.00 HOOKER AND SPITS ON YOU WHEN DONE. THEY SUCK. HEADMAN MUST BE LATIN FOR SH-T!

Now, do you really want to know how I really feel?


                                  Cuda Ken

[firefighter3931]

HEADMAN SUCK BIG HAIRY DONKEY D--KS THEY BLOW LIKE A $2.00 HOOKER AND SPITS ON YOU WHEN DONE. THEY SUCK. HEADMAN MUST BE LATIN FOR SH-T!

Now, do you really want to know how I really feel?


                                                  Cuda Ken

I actually like the headman's and had them on several "mild" motors.   But the hooker comp is a better choice between the two.  

Ron

[cudaken]

Not sure what these are but they are pretty much the worst I have ever used. Bought them off E-bay and seller thought they where Headman. New but box was long gone. Has this number on the back of the flange.                                         78030
                                                              6        7
69 Dodge Charger, 440 floor shift. I can not find a name on them, I would not put my name on them either. Took 2 hours and 3 people to get the 440 and headers into the Charger. Final had to pull the steering colunm all the way out to get the 440 in. Finaly got the stock starter in, layied on a header tube. Had to use a min starter, there was no option. Number 3 tube is with in 1/16th of a inch of the power steering box. Plug wire on 3, 5, 4 and 6 had to get heat socks.

Ron, want them, send me your address. Did you have the problem I had? Far from the first set of headers I have installed.


POS SHOULD BE THERE TRADE MARK!


                                    Ken
                                  

[Ghoste]

Then again, I've had three sets of Hedman's with no problems.  Your mileage may vary?

[cudaken]

 And so does the fit.[size=250pt] I hate mine headmans[/size]

Did you have any of the problems I have ghost? I all wise knew a mini starter was a good idea. But never had a stock starter lay on a tube before? They where touching, not just close!

                                            Cuda Ken wanting some Hookers, I love Hookers

[Ghoste]

No, I honestly haven't.  But I can also honestly say that your experience is not the first time I've heard those exact same complaints about Hedman.  I don't know, maybe I've just been lucky.  I've had three sets and no problems. 
I'm in full agreement about Hooker being superior though.  Even if only from a performance standpoint.

[firefighter3931]

And so does the fit.[size=250pt] I hate mine headmans[/size]

Did you have any of the problems I have ghost? I all wise knew a mini starter was a good idea. But never had a stock starter lay on a tube before? They where touching, not just close!

                                                                 Cuda Ken wanting some Hookers, I love Hookers

Ken, now that you mention it....there were some stock starter clearance issues i had on one particular install. I replaced a burnt starter once and tried bolting the headmans back on and they wouldn't fit. I was wondering WTF...how could this be happening. So, i pulled the "new" starter off and compared it to the old one and damn if they weren't different size. Seems there are two early mopar V8 sized starters....one for Bigblock and one for Smallblock ! The starter that was on there was for a 318-360 ci engine and my new one was for a 383-440 ci engine. Yep, the 318 starter bolted right up and had been working fine until it bit the dust.

The BB starter is physically bigger in both length and girth and would not fit with the headman headers. Took the new BB starter back and replaced it for a SB starter and problem solved ! Learned something new that day, actually a couple of things;

(1) headman BB headers when bolted onto a 440 will work with an oem smallblock starter but not an oem bigblock starter....that's wierd !
(2) there are 2 different sized oem starters for mopar V8 engines....i had allways assumed that they were all the same. They look identical other than the physical dimension of the bb oem starter is slightly larger. Even side by side, they look pretty close in size and casually glancing it's not readily apparent that they're different.

My observations:

The issue with the headmans is that they're a generic header designed to fit both lowdeck and Rb applications. Using them on a 440 with the raised deck moves the header up and closes the starter clearance off creating a tighter fit....requiring a more compact starter for adequate clearance. The headmans would probably work fine with an oem BB starter on a 383-400 because the lower ex port location would yield additional clearance. So basicly if you're using them on a 440, you want to use an oem smallblock starter. If they're being used on a 383 then either oem sized starter should work.

Ron

[Chryco Psycho]

Hey Bill
we had to bend the crap out of the headmens on Alexs car when i was in OK to get th emini starter in place remember ?

[Ghoste]

There's another point, the lowdeck thing.  Of the three sets I've had, only one was on a 440.

[cudaken]

 Dam, I all wise thought the starters where the same sizes? Only starter I thought was driffrent where on the Hemi 4 speed's. They where direct drive starters.

Well Guys there is a cheap mini starter trick for you. Spent $125.00 for the daren mini where I could have went to Auto Stupid.

                                        Cuda Ken

[Steve P.]

this is my experience with super comp hookers with eddy heads...I had to heat up with a torch and socket to form around the spark plugs not as bad as it sounds,just a good hour of mopar work no big deal,but hookers are a good tuned header and is worth it...I have 1 7/8 super comps....don't be discouraged

                         Hollllllllllly Crap!!!!      Mike SPEAKS!!!!!!!        

  Keep em' coming Mike.. You have been busting your ass and the bank for three years now and many of us can use your experiences for guidance.     Both good and bad...

Oh yeah, I think maybe you should give Ron permission to post your dyno results with those rotten old, non-ported, ((( E- HEADS )))...     Hehehehe....

[aifilaw]

sounds like i'll be going with the hookers, now that you mention it I do remember the headman issues. Good to see you again chryco, we need to run into each other again next time you come down to the states, if I ever get enough cash I'll be starting a major charger project I'd like you in on (ahh dreams), but I have a wedding and honeymoon too pay for, so it may still be a few years down the line.

as for the eddy flames...that's good that the eddy's are running. I can post better numbers than that using some 452's , my complaint about eddy's is partially their ealy casting flaws, but mostly their inability to be modified. From the factory they are at about 90-95% of their potential flow numbers and power. You can get bulldogs, or almost any other aluminum head that start out lower or higher in potential stock and can be modified well past the eddy's, That's my gripe, for most who like to slap them on and drive...your welcome to them.

[firefighter3931]

as for the eddy flames...that's good that the eddy's are running. I can post better numbers than that using some 452's , my complaint about eddy's is partially their ealy casting flaws, but mostly their inability to be modified. From the factory they are at about 90-95% of their potential flow numbers and power. You can get bulldogs, or almost any other aluminum head that start out lower or higher in potential stock and can be modified well past the eddy's, That's my gripe, for most who like to slap them on and drive...your welcome to them.

I'd like to see a 10.5:1, 452 head, flat tappet, PUMP GAS combo make better numbers than mine. We are talking street car here.  

The Eddy's are far from maxed out as delivered....there's another 35-40 cfm hidden in there...... if you know where to look for it  

I suppose if you really need to go faster than 9's then maybe these aren't your heads. Here's a Cuda running 9.80's with a flat tappet cam and 446 cubes....you tell me if they're working ? Oh, and that's all motor....no blower no nitrous.....all throttle baby !     

Are there better heads out there, of course there are.....but the Performer RPM's are pretty hard to beat for the money.  

[Plumcrazy]

Dam, I all wise thought the starters where the same sizes? Only starter I thought was driffrent where on the Hemi 4 speed's. They where direct drive starters.

There were 1.5 hp starters and 1.8 hp starters.     The 1.8.s are around an inch or so longer.


I've had the same set of Hedman's on my car for almost 30 years with no problems.
When I bolt on my e-heads this winter a new set of ceramic coated Hedman's are going to be bolted up to them.

[THE CHARGER PUNK]

our 68 charger has console shift automatic with power steering and it required a bit of dings here and there to make the hooker headers properly fit(and some of the spark plugs were to close 2 header and burnt)-MATT

[mopar0166]

Whats the latest opinion on this subject im finishing a 440 build with e heads and have power steering.  Im using solid motor mounts and i am considering the hooker headers 5903 with 17/8

What are peoples thoughts,  Id rather go with my oringal plan of hookers but am now considering the hedman headers because i was using on my small block with zero issues. 

[mopar0166]

 

[justcruisin]

I run the 5903 1 7/8 hookers on my 71 440, e-heads, power steer. I needed to clearance the number 2 pipe for number 2 and 4 plug, also number 8 needed plug clearance, no big deal. The 5 pipe fouled on the power steer and needed clearing  and the number 2 pipe fouls on the body when the motor torques over, I guess not a problem with solid mounts. The e-heads combined with thick gaskets (I use Percy's) are closer to the body. No experience with the headmans.

[firefighter3931]

Whats the latest opinion on this subject im finishing a 440 build with e heads and have power steering.  Im using solid motor mounts and i am considering the hooker headers 5903 with 17/8

What are peoples thoughts,  Id rather go with my oringal plan of hookers but am now considering the hedman headers because i was using on my small block with zero issues. 

Go with TTI 


Ron

[metallicareload99]

Whats the latest opinion on this subject im finishing a 440 build with e heads and have power steering.  Im using solid motor mounts and i am considering the hooker headers 5903 with 17/8

What are peoples thoughts,  Id rather go with my oringal plan of hookers but am now considering the hedman headers because i was using on my small block with zero issues. 

Go with TTI 


Ron

Go cheap with the Headmans or go with TTI.  Why pay 1.5 times the price of Headmans and still have at least the same amount of headache?  On my Headmans I had to put a good sized dent in cylinder #1's primary.  I wish I went with TTI

[Steve P.]

I find it amazing that after all these years of building headers for mopar engines, HOOKER STILL cannot bend and dimple their product or refine it KNOWING that everyone has to pound the crap out of them and that questions like this one comes up all the time!!!!!!! 

Though I have never installed TTI's I have seen hundreds of them installed and I never see boots burnt or hear people complain about fitment.... 

[mopar0166]

Thanks for the messages, where is the big differences between the small and big block stuff.  my small block stuff worked fine. 

Id love to go get TTI headers but im way over budget in my engine swap right now as it is.   im thinking 300 is the max i have left in the budget for headers. 

[ottawamerc]

On my build I decided to go with the Hooker ceramic comp headers 1 7/8 tube and well the first set didnt fit, they hit the steering box and torsion bar. I returned them then tried the super comps 1 3/4 tubes at twice the price but hey they fit like a charm then one day while the car was on the hoist I noticed a large area where the ceramic was missing so off they came again Third set of Hookers now but same set of super comps and of course they fit too but not as well The #1 and #3 plug wire boots touch on my( oh yeah you guessed it) E-Heads so now I need to fix that. The starter was never a problem with either of the headers allthough I'm using a mini starter. NO idea on longevity but all I can say is they better $^%#@# last!!!!!

Good luck

Scott