trouble retarding cam

[oldschool]

im trying to retard my cam in my 580" motor.the card says to instal it at 107*.i talked to kenny over at indy and he said i could pick up 50 ftlbs of torque putting it at 110*.i have a indy 9 keyway timing set.when i set it strait up it was perfect at 107.however when i put the keyway on 2 retard and line the cam sprocket dot on the 2 retard spot,it checks at 111.5*.am i missing something here?how could a 2* mark be 4.5*?i talked to russ at indy about it going over 110 and he said to try for 109.what do i have to do to retard my cam 3*?  ron,are you out there? help............. trying to get ready for the dyno next week.

[firefighter3931]

That seems odd....perhaps the lower gear is not stamped correctly ? Have you tried it in another position to verify that this problem is consistent ? I know it's tedious to degree in a bunch of different installed centerlines but at least you would have some idea....

The other option is to use the offset bushing, but with a 9 position timing set that really shouldn't be required. 



Ron

[royt440]

I'm definitelly a cam novice but I thought you advanced a cam to get more torque and retarded for more top end?  Since I'm almost ready to put the timing chain on mine, could someone set me straight. Thanks
Roy

[oldschool]

I'm definitelly a cam novice but I thought you advanced a cam to get more torque and retarded for more top end?  Since I'm almost ready to put the timing chain on mine, could someone set me straight. Thanks
Roy

you are correct.you adv. the cam for more low end and retard for more top end.it just moves the powerband around.

[oldschool]

That seems odd....perhaps the lower gear is not stamped correctly ? Have you tried it in another position to verify that this problem is consistent ? I know it's tedious to degree in a bunch of different installed centerlines but at least you would have some idea....

The other option is to use the offset bushing, but with a 9 position timing set that really shouldn't be required. 



Ron

thanks again ron.i tried for hours and hours,to no avail.the 2*marks on the crank sprocket move the cam 4*. :scratchchin:i tried to advance it 4* then retard the cam sprocket,that did not work.i thought about using the offset bushing but it is a 3 bolt gear.the bolt holes are tight,i would need to open them up.im sure there is a combo of keyways and moving the cam sprocket,but im done  i just put it back to 107*.so much for 110*.

[oldschool]

i bought off set cam bushings.had to drill out all three bolt holes and the one for the bushing.after messing with it for a couple of hours,i got it to 109*.not the 110* i was shooting for.i used the biggest off set bushing in the kit. what a pain in the azz. dyno next week.

[Challenger340]

You guys are far better than I am, if you can make an offset bushing work "exactly" right on ?
Slow, and not very precise in my experience, I gave up on them long ago, especially when trying to split the Cam difference from #1 to #6 Cyl on an RB Block, or compensate for Valvetrain deflection.

Have you guys tried the Cloyes "Hex-adjust" Chain & Gearsets for these Issues ?

Just "dial" the Cam Degree you want during setup, Lock it down when happy, Done !

Added benefit of the Torrington Thrust Brg. on the back as well, combined with the TRUE Trunion style Roller Chain, a "must" in my books when using REAL Roller Camshafts !
Best used with a shorted(.030"), front Cam Brg for added Lube.
NEVER had a problem in last 10 plus years using them, and "happy" Cam dialing the whole time.

IMO, File the offset bushings in the Can.

Bob out.

[idahogrumpy]

We used the Cloyes hex adjust in the 470, what a nice set up. Works very slick. I would recommend to anyone.  Kyle

[oldschool]

We used the Cloyes hex adjust in the 470, what a nice set up. Works very slick. I would recommend to anyone.  Kyle

im going to give one a try 

[firefighter3931]

i bought off set cam bushings.had to drill out all three bolt holes and the one for the bushing.after messing with it for a couple of hours,i got it to 109*.not the 110* i was shooting for.i used the biggest off set bushing in the kit. what a pain in the azz. dyno next week.

That sure seems like a lot of work for 2* of adjustment....good work ! 

I wonder what timing set ICH is using that it's off so much ? 

Looking forward to the #'s 



Ron

[oldschool]

i bought off set cam bushings.had to drill out all three bolt holes and the one for the bushing.after messing with it for a couple of hours,i got it to 109*.not the 110* i was shooting for.i used the biggest off set bushing in the kit. what a pain in the azz. dyno next week.

That sure seems like a lot of work for 2* of adjustment....good work ! 

I wonder what timing set ICH is using that it's off so much ? 

Looking forward to the #'s 



Ron

yeah it was alot of work ron.i had to use the 7* bushing to get 2* of cam timing i checked the chain set on the 2* mark and it was off 4* on the retard side and 3.5* on the adv. side  . i normaly set my cams straight up,per the card.then i check them with a wheel to make sure they are right.so i have never had to change it around until now. i will be bolting the motor to the dyno tonight. i had to use the stuska,the superflow was tied up still.

[Challenger340]

OS
You'll be shocked, when you put the Hex-adjust Set on, and the Cam Timing is "very close" to where you want to be, requiring only slight adjustment to achieve your 110 ?

I've seen some "other", supposed "quality" T/Chain & Gearsets, that were totally out to lunch !

A Little of topic here;
Morale of the story for anyone else reading this, is ALWAYS degree the Camshaft, and NEVER line up the DOTS, and ASSUME it should be close !

Even on a run of the Mill Hydraulic Cam, I've seen them "out" 6 degrees !

Always DEGREE the Cam and CHECK !

[oldschool]

ron,on something else that maybee you can help me with.i need to rebuild one of my 500" motors.i was wondering whats the most compression i can get away with by mixing sunoco 110 and 93 pump gas? its costing me $400 a drum for the gas   all my cars use it.i'll keep the 580" on it but want the others on a mix if i can. the motor specs:
500"-528"
indy sr,s
1.6 rockers
272/276 @.050
13.5cr
do you think i could mix now ? 50/50? 75/25?
would mixing sunoco 110 and pump 93 result in 100 octane? does it work like that?if so whats the most compression with 100,for my combo? i also have the cam opening and closeing points if you need them. thanks ron

[oldschool]

OS
You'll be shocked, when you put the Hex-adjust Set on, and the Cam Timing is "very close" to where you want to be, requiring only slight adjustment to achieve your 110 ?

I've seen some "other", supposed "quality" T/Chain & Gearsets, that were totally out to lunch !

A Little of topic here;
Morale of the story for anyone else reading this, is ALWAYS degree the Camshaft, and NEVER line up the DOTS, and ASSUME it should be close !

Even on a run of the Mill Hydraulic Cam, I've seen them "out" 6 degrees !

Always DEGREE the Cam and CHECK !

i have always checked mine.when installing straight up they have been very close.the ironic thing is,the dots are dead on and the keyways to adjust them are way off thanks again bob for your help.going to the dyno tonight to get started....

[firefighter3931]

yeah it was alot of work ron.i had to use the 7* bushing to get 2* of cam timing i checked the chain set on the 2* mark and it was off 4* on the retard side and 3.5* on the adv. side  . i normaly set my cams straight up,per the card.then i check them with a wheel to make sure they are right.so i have never had to change it around until now. i will be bolting the motor to the dyno tonight. i had to use the stuska,the superflow was tied up still.

Geez....the stamps on that gear is waaaay off !  That certainly seems way out of the norm. 




Ron

[firefighter3931]

ron,on something else that maybee you can help me with.i need to rebuild one of my 500" motors.i was wondering whats the most compression i can get away with by mixing sunoco 110 and 93 pump gas? its costing me $400 a drum for the gas   all my cars use it.i'll keep the 580" on it but want the others on a mix if i can. the motor specs:
500"-528"
indy sr,s
1.6 rockers
272/276 @.050
13.5cr
do you think i could mix now ? 50/50? 75/25?
would mixing sunoco 110 and pump 93 result in 100 octane? does it work like that?if so whats the most compression with 100,for my combo? i also have the cam opening and closeing points if you need them. thanks ron

Brian,

Have you checked the cranking compression ? That is a pretty healthy cam so it should knock some cylinder pressure out of it. 

If it's a tight quench build you might be able to mix and have it live fine but the cylinder pressures will tell us something.


Ron

[oldschool]

ron, i had another question.it's a couple of post up,did you see it?

[oldschool]

ron, i will check it and get back to ya.